Can Celtics Still Get Bogdanovic ? Reality Check Request!

[Boise To Boston]

Subject says it all - with the funky cap rules is it possible for us to get both???

[footey]

Mods should merge this into the existing thread started on Bogdanovic.

[Boise To Boston]

Where is that thread?  I was looking for one and Pilsner find it

[Jvalin]

Here's a quote from wiki. Not sure whether it's accurate or not. Can't find a quote from the CBA.

Sign-and-trade deal
Restrictions
(...) The receiving team cannot have used the so-called "taxpayer mid-level exception" in that season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal

[trickybilly]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

I think not, or at least not unless Kings had the additional cap space to absorb it. I don't really know.

I'd rather keep Langford than Nesmith.

The Kings have space, but the cap situation is  irrelevant. But Boggy is restricted, so teams can offer whatever, but the Kings can match. What they want will be assets from ac capped team like us in a S&T or pray the Knicks don't throw 20 + at him. Or just match that 20m...

They will probably ask for Romeo, Timelord, Smart and picks... And maybe settle for Smart and picks.

[Neurotic Guy]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

This whole thing is crazy confusing and I know we have a couple of experts on here and would be great to hear a definitive statement on this.

I think getting BB is feasible but unrealistic.  Indiana, who has interest in BB, can do an S&T with useful players, Boston cannot.  Boston can only combine the TPE with draft picks -- and not very useful picks at that.  The question I have is whether Boston-Sac can create a separate deal -- say trade Theis or Romeo for Yogi Ferrell, or Theis or Romeo for Giles on an S&T which might be an enticement for Sacramento?

The other option would be to use Smart in an S&T for BB.  Smart plus Semi might be enough salary to send.  That may compete with what Indiana (or whoever else) may offer.  I don't like it, but that might be what it would take to get Bogdanovic.

[Roy H.]

Here's a quote from wiki. Not sure whether it's accurate or not. Can't find a quote from the CBA.

Sign-and-trade deal
Restrictions
(...) The receiving team cannot have used the so-called "taxpayer mid-level exception" in that season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal

Larry Coon has that, too.  No idea why it’s a rule.

[Jvalin]

Here's a quote from wiki. Not sure whether it's accurate or not. Can't find a quote from the CBA.

Sign-and-trade deal
Restrictions
(...) The receiving team cannot have used the so-called "taxpayer mid-level exception" in that season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal

Larry Coon has that, too.  No idea why it’s a rule.

Turns out we can't go after Bogdanovic then.

[BitterJim]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

I think not, or at least not unless Kings had the additional cap space to absorb it. I don't really know.

I'd rather keep Langford than Nesmith.

That isn't right. The limitation with combining salaries with the TPE is that you can't combine it with outgoing salaries in order to bring in a larger salary; if the TPE is big enough to absorb the big slay you are bringing in, then it doesn't matter for the rest of the trade. So including Langford wouldn't matter; we would absorb Bogdan with the TPE and Langford wouldn't matter. For the Kings, it would reduce the TPE they created in the deal (by an amount equal to Langford's salary), but it would otherwise have no effect.

You could also look at it as non-simultaneous trades; you take in Bogdan with the TPE, generating a TPE for the Kings equal to the outgoing salary (I think BYC applies for this amount, but that's fine). The Kings would then take in Langford using that TPE, reducing it's value by the amount of his 2020-21 salary.

I think a future first gets it done, though. And if we're trying to contend right now/in the near future, we're better off having more experienced young guys (like Langford and Nesmith will/would be by the time that pick conveyed). And for the Kings, if it's that or nothing, they'd take the future pick.

[trickybilly]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

I think not, or at least not unless Kings had the additional cap space to absorb it. I don't really know.

I'd rather keep Langford than Nesmith.

That isn't right. The limitation with combining salaries with the TPE is that you can't combine it with outgoing salaries in order to bring in a larger salary; if the TPE is big enough to absorb the big slay you are bringing in, then it doesn't matter for the rest of the trade. So including Langford wouldn't matter; we would absorb Bogdan with the TPE and Langford wouldn't matter. For the Kings, it would reduce the TPE they created in the deal (by an amount equal to Langford's salary), but it would otherwise have no effect.

You could also look at it as non-simultaneous trades; you take in Bogdan with the TPE, generating a TPE for the Kings equal to the outgoing salary (I think BYC applies for this amount, but that's fine). The Kings would then take in Langford using that TPE, reducing it's value by the amount of his 2020-21 salary.

I think a future first gets it done, though. And if we're trying to contend right now/in the near future, we're better off having more experienced young guys (like Langford and Nesmith will/would be by the time that pick conveyed). And for the Kings, if it's that or nothing, they'd take the future pick.

1 future first? Other teams will beat that.

[BitterJim]

Here's a quote from wiki. Not sure whether it's accurate or not. Can't find a quote from the CBA.

Sign-and-trade deal
Restrictions
(...) The receiving team cannot have used the so-called "taxpayer mid-level exception" in that season.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-and-trade_deal

Larry Coon has that, too.  No idea why it’s a rule.

Turns out we can't go after Bogdanovic then.

We can, though. We haven't used the taxpayer's MLE, just the normal one.

The rule exists because you can only use the taxpayer's MLE if you are over the apron (otherwise it would be a normal MLE, you just didn't use all of it). So this just prohibits a team from going above the apron, using the taxpayer's MLE, and then dropping back down to take in a sign-and-trade. You would be fine to go above the apron, drop down, use a portion of the full MLE equal to the taxpayer's mini-MLE, and then take in a sign and trade, though. You just can't act as a taxpaying team (by using the mini MLE) and as a non taxpayer (taking in a sign and trade) in the same season. You have to pick one

[BitterJim]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

I think not, or at least not unless Kings had the additional cap space to absorb it. I don't really know.

I'd rather keep Langford than Nesmith.

That isn't right. The limitation with combining salaries with the TPE is that you can't combine it with outgoing salaries in order to bring in a larger salary; if the TPE is big enough to absorb the big slay you are bringing in, then it doesn't matter for the rest of the trade. So including Langford wouldn't matter; we would absorb Bogdan with the TPE and Langford wouldn't matter. For the Kings, it would reduce the TPE they created in the deal (by an amount equal to Langford's salary), but it would otherwise have no effect.

You could also look at it as non-simultaneous trades; you take in Bogdan with the TPE, generating a TPE for the Kings equal to the outgoing salary (I think BYC applies for this amount, but that's fine). The Kings would then take in Langford using that TPE, reducing it's value by the amount of his 2020-21 salary.

I think a future first gets it done, though. And if we're trying to contend right now/in the near future, we're better off having more experienced young guys (like Langford and Nesmith will/would be by the time that pick conveyed). And for the Kings, if it's that or nothing, they'd take the future pick.

1 future first? Other teams will beat that.

It doesn't matter. It's a sign and trade, if Bogdan wants to come here then other teams' offers are irrelevant.

And if he doesn't want to come here, then our offer is irrelevant, too

[BitterJim]

We’re gonna be hard-capped at $138.6 million.

Right now, we’re at right around $100 million, not counting FAs or draft picks.  Rookies will make around $7 million I think; free agents around $14 million.

So, we’re at approximately $121 million.  If accurate, we could S&T BB into a hypothetical trade exception, starting his salary at $17.6 million.

We can offer him up to $10,235,263 in year 1 (=120% of previous salary), otherwise the Base Year Compensation rule would come into effect.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q93

Good luck trying to come up with a valid proposal while taking into account the BYC rule. It may be possible, but I'm really not sure.

Rookies will make around $7 million I think

Here are the exact numbers. They'll make around $5.5 million.

14th pick: $3,458,400
26th pick: $2,035,800
total: $5,494,200

But if we are using the (hypothetical Hayward) TPE to facilitate a S&T, what does the BYC mean here? We probably aren’t sending salaries, just picks. So we’d fulfill salary-matching (whether his previous salary or 50% of his new one) requirements using the TPE, no?

That's what I thought as well.

Seems like to make it attractive to Bogdanovic, we may have to go higher than $17 mm to start. Closer to $20 mm. This could be accomplished by sending our draft rights to Nesmith.  There has to be something to motivate the Kings to play along. Offering future late first round pick is not going to get this done IMO.

I'd rather not give the kid up, but if that is all that stands in the way to getting Bogdanovich, it's a no brainer. 

We can't send Romeo because you can't mix player salary with TPE. 

I just need clarification that draft rights to Nesmith could be packaged with TPE, can someone speak to that?

Can you not send out a player when using the TPE?  I know you can’t combine his salary with the TPE amount, but if the TPE is $20 million, can’t you trade away a player and receive up to $20 mill back?

The point in trading away Langford or someone else is to create space to remain under the luxury tax.

This whole thing is crazy confusing and I know we have a couple of experts on here and would be great to hear a definitive statement on this.

I think getting BB is feasible but unrealistic.  Indiana, who has interest in BB, can do an S&T with useful players, Boston cannot.  Boston can only combine the TPE with draft picks -- and not very useful picks at that.  The question I have is whether Boston-Sac can create a separate deal -- say trade Theis or Romeo for Yogi Ferrell, or Theis or Romeo for Giles on an S&T which might be an enticement for Sacramento?

The other option would be to use Smart in an S&T for BB.  Smart plus Semi might be enough salary to send.  That may compete with what Indiana (or whoever else) may offer.  I don't like it, but that might be what it would take to get Bogdanovic.

As Indiana has already learned this offseason, having enticing pieces for a sign and trade is irrelevant if the player decides to go somewhere else. It's Bogdan's decision, not the Kings'.

The Kings could just play hardball and not help him go where he wants to, but he would then have the option to sign an offer sheet with someone that has space (which the Kings wouldn't match based on reports, so they would lose him for nothing),  or he could sign the qualifying offer and just be a big disgruntled mess on their bench... before he left for nothing a year later (and they couldn't just trade him if he signed for the QO; his Bird Rights wouldn't transfer in a trade, so he would essentially have a no-trade clause). If Bogdan wants to go somewhere, the only move that makes sense for the Kings is to get something out of it (they might decide a second is too little to be worth it, but no team would be crazy enough to turn down a first for a deal that costs them nothing)

[knuckleballer]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1330559924317941764



Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
Bogdan Bogdanovic will be either a Hawk or King. All depends on if Sacramento matches. Or does this become a S&T sending Bogdanovic to Atlanta?

Yes, Celtics fans, this takes them out of the running for Bogdanovic.
12:13 PM · Nov 22, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


Oh well 

[footey]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1330559924317941764



Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
Bogdan Bogdanovic will be either a Hawk or King. All depends on if Sacramento matches. Or does this become a S&T sending Bogdanovic to Atlanta?

Yes, Celtics fans, this takes them out of the running for Bogdanovic.
12:13 PM · Nov 22, 2020·Twitter for iPhone


Oh well 

So he signed an offer sheet with ATL? How much?

Not to beat a dead horse, but Kings could match and then trade to Celtics. They can't sign and trade with ATL under the rules, however.