Don't trade Ray

[Drucci]

Seriously, I'm starting to get worried that Danny is going to pull off a panic move by trading Ray before the deadline.

Ray is in a slump right now. He has had at least one or two rough stretches during the season since he has been a Celtic. It happens with every player and even more with shooters. He will get out of it, no need to panic and trade him after a terrible month of January for the Celtics (for which Ray is clearly not the biggest culprit).

If you want to blame Ray for his lack of efficiency on shooting, maybe you should blame Doc first for playing him 40 minutes every night.

Ray's defense has dropped a little bit but he can still do an excellent job on stars, he showed us that he could still defend on Kobe very well last night (even on his gamewinner, tough, tough shot).

Ray is in excellent shape and has not missed a game this season, and very few games since he's been a Celtic.

So, who is with me and thinks Ray shouldn't be traded? Especially when you consider that the player we would acquire in exchange wouldn't be as efficient as Ray, wouldn't bring the same spacing to the team because of his inferior shooting touch (the spacing Ray brings to the team is essential and often overlooked, but the fact that Doc overplays Ray shows how important it is and how it helps his teammates to get easier shots), wouldn't necessarily fit in terms of chemistry...

I laugh at trade ideas suggesting to ship Ray to get Jason Richardson. People blame Ray for his bad stretches but Richardson is the essence of inconsistency, and he has not a good basketball IQ, not to mention he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Plus, Ray's clutchness can't be overlooked. Reminder :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnU5dPmpUk

Danny, don't panic, be patient, and let Ray come out of his slump!

I don't see any trade scenario that would justify trading Ray. Unless we get LeBron in return... and you know that's not happening.

Edit : to add on my point of not trading Ray :

By the way, here are some very interesting (and overlooked) stats that show how Ray's game is affected by Doc overplaying him.

Sure, Doc has nothing to do with days of rest, but it's obvious that Ray plays better when he has a few days off, and Doc playing him 40 minutes every night doesn't help Ray for the next game(s) :

0 Days Rest  (back to back) :    9 games  41%FG  26%3FG  76%FT 15 points

1 Day Rest 24 games 44%FG 34%3FG 91%FT 15 points

2 Days Rest 5 games 49%FG 33%3FG 87%FT 19 points

3 Days Rest 6 games 55%FG 44%3FG 100%FT 17 points

3+ Days Rest 1 game 31%FG 51%3FG 80%FT 16 points

Age is catching up with Ray when he has to play a lot of games in a short amount of time but the stats show how efficient he is when he has a lot of rest. He is still a killer.

Fortunately, in the playoffs, you have 2 days rest between each game so it will only make Ray more efficient.

With a stretch of 3 games in 4 days you can understand why Ray struggled mightily against Atlanta and L.A (while being brilliant against Orlando, by the way).

It's just another reason to keep Ray in my opinion. Doc is the biggest culprit : you can't blame Ray for aging but you can blame Doc for overplaying him. Even when Marquis will be back I'm sure he will keep overplaying Ray...

[Chris]

I have no doubt that Danny will NOT make a panic mood.  It's just not his style.  He is always looking for deals that will help his team, but he will only pull the trigger if it is a good deal that does not knock this team out of contention this year, or put them in cap trouble in the future.  This is why a deal is not very likely, even if Danny is actively looking.

[fanofgreen]

Seriously, I'm starting to get worried that Danny is going to pull off a panic move by trading Ray before the deadline.

Ray is in a slump right now. He has had at least one or two rough stretches during the season since he has been a Celtic. It happens with every player and even more with shooters. He will get out of it, no need to panic and trade him after a terrible month of January for the Celtics (for which Ray is clearly not the biggest culprit).

If you want to blame Ray for his lack of efficiency on shooting, maybe you should blame Doc first for playing him 40 minutes every night.

Ray's defense has dropped a little bit but he can still do an excellent job on stars, he showed us that he could still defend on Kobe very well last night (even on his gamewinner, tough, tough shot).

Ray is in excellent shape and has not missed a game this season, and very few games since he's been a Celtic.

So, who is with me and thinks Ray shouldn't be traded? Especially when you consider that the player we would acquire in exchange wouldn't be as efficient as Ray, wouldn't bring the same spacing to the team because of his inferior shooting touch (the spacing Ray brings to the team is essential and often overlooked, but the fact that Doc overplays Ray shows how important it is and how it helps his teammates to get easier shots), wouldn't necessarily fit in terms of chemistry...

I laugh at trade ideas suggesting to ship Ray to get Jason Richardson. People blame Ray for his bad stretches but Richardson is the essence of inconsistency, and he has not a good basketball IQ, not to mention he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

Plus, Ray's clutchness can't be overlooked. Reminder :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWnU5dPmpUk

Danny, don't panic, be patient, and let Ray come out of his slump!

I don't see any trade scenario that would justify trading Ray. Unless we get LeBron in return... and you know that's not happening.

I'm with you on this.

I dont want to touch this starting lineup. Our starting 5 chemistry is off the charts when healthy. I think all focus should be on our bench. We waived Lester, so we have space to sign someone and help our bench, w/o making a move.

And we've got guys like eddie and TA and Baby, who could be traded,and we could get some value back.

With the way TA has been playing lately, and his expiring contract, I say we should look to trade him. His value has never been higher, and Marquis will be back soon, and that will most certainly throw TA's game off, so we should trade him while he is playing decent and healthy, before he goes back to being inconsistent and hurt TA.

[aporel#18]

Hi everyone, my first post here is to join Drucci's petition. While I don't think Danny will make a panic move, I guess it's not impossible him trading Ray or almost anyone else in the roster, given the right deal.

Maybe Danny is playing mind games to other GMs, maybe is trying to distract attention from his real trading target... but I don't want Ray getting traded. I think our starting 5 playing team basketball is a thing of beauty, and Ray is the right piece beside the other guys.

And then you have the UBUNTU thing... overcoming adversity as a group means no big changes to the group, of course there can be minor trades, but trading Ray would be too much.

I hope we beat the Wizards by a good margin and a good game by the team.

[crownsy]

I'll conditionaly sign, since ray is one of my favoite players and i'd hate to see him go.

The only deal i'd accept him going out on is one that gives us a SG back who is ready right now to contribute to a contender, or an extremly high pick (which won't happen)

[Roy Hobbs]

Here's my stance: 

Don't trade Ray to save money
Don't trade Ray because you're obsessing about the post big three era

Do trade Ray if it gives us an equal or better chance of winning the title this year.

There are a handful of trades that I would make.  I'd be okay with a deal with Jason Richardson, for instance.  However, the number of trades I'd do is very small.

[ManUp]

Ray's slump has been more of the norm this season and his hot shooting nights are what have kept his 3pt % decent. After last night he's shooting a subpar 34% (339. to be more precise) from downtown on the year. As for the spacing it's overrated, teams drop off of Ray plenty and he just hasn't been making them pay. I'm not sure this is a "slump" that Ray is going to come out of, I think he's just losing his legs.

If we can get a young SG who's a borderline all-star for Ray, which I think we can, we probably should trade him.

[yoursweatersux]

Here's my stance: 

Don't trade Ray to save money
Don't trade Ray because you're obsessing about the post big three era

Do trade Ray if it gives us an equal or better chance of winning the title this year.

There are a handful of trades that I would make.  I'd be okay with a deal with Jason Richardson, for instance.  However, the number of trades I'd do is very small.

As usual, I agree with Hobbs.

The only thing where I might differ is on the number of trades that I'd pull the trigger on. I wouldn't characterize the potential upgrade pool as "very small".... more like "modest".

[wdleehi]

Here's my stance: 

Don't trade Ray to save money
Don't trade Ray because you're obsessing about the post big three era

Do trade Ray if it gives us an equal or better chance of winning the title this year.

There are a handful of trades that I would make.  I'd be okay with a deal with Jason Richardson, for instance.  However, the number of trades I'd do is very small.

That is the position I think many are taking.

[More Banners]

Here's my stance: 

Don't trade Ray to save money
Don't trade Ray because you're obsessing about the post big three era

Do trade Ray if it gives us an equal or better chance of winning the title this year.

There are a handful of trades that I would make.  I'd be okay with a deal with Jason Richardson, for instance.  However, the number of trades I'd do is very small.

I think most would agree with everything here.  (probably because we don't care how much money Wyc spends?).

Thoughtful observers tend to disagree over what would give us an "equal or better chance" of winning it all.  I am among those that don't think it would require a 1 for 1 trade, or an equal top-notch two guard, but that if it were a trade that filled a few of our several holes, we'd be better, this year and probably next.  So I'm probably more open to trade ideas than Roy or some other folks. 

Trades have to work for both sides, and salary relief is unlikely to be enough to net a top-tier player in all but the most unusual circumstances, meaning, the other team would likely only make such a move as a last resort, and we don't have much to offer to start their rebuilding other than salary relief.  Any team with a better pick or some young players with upside (BBD doesn't really count) could probably make a better offer than we can. 

My guess is that IF Ray's contract is moved, it will more likely be for a combination of good players rather than one borderline star.  Hopefully we get a sweetener, like a pick, or even swapping to move up in the draft.

[LarBrd33]

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.  WE have been starting "trade Ray Allen in Feb of 2010" threads since we traded for Ray.   This was inevitable.  This has always been the plan, if you ask me.  You get a couple years out of him and then use his valuable expiring contract to cash in while you have a chance.

It's not a panic move.  It's a necessity.  Ray playing at a good level, but he's a bounce away from being washed up.  You don't get this chance again.  This is like when Seattle dumped GP (for Ray) a year before he completely died as a basketball player.

Here's the only question.  Does Ray's "intangibles" make the difference between this team winning a title and not winning a title?  Ray doesn't seem like much of an "intangibles" guy.  He's a shooter.  A year from now when he's a washed up old man, you will NOT have the opportunity to move him for an impact player.  You only get one chance to make use of his 20 mil expiring contract and we have a couple weeks to take advantage of that.   

[celticinorlando]

i love ray...but if they can deal him to improve the team then do it

[Chris]

Here's my stance: 

Don't trade Ray to save money
Don't trade Ray because you're obsessing about the post big three era

Do trade Ray if it gives us an equal or better chance of winning the title this year.

There are a handful of trades that I would make.  I'd be okay with a deal with Jason Richardson, for instance.  However, the number of trades I'd do is very small.

I agree.  I think the qualifications of a deal needs to be that it cannot take anything off the table this year, and it cannot add "bad" money beyond this year(unless they are getting a legit star in return).

So if we are getting Richardson, great.  If we are getting Richardson, and Barbosa's contract, no thanks.

If we are getting Prince, great (well, if he were healthy...just making a point here).  If we are getting Prince and Hamilton's terrible contract, no thanks.

And so on.

[marseye]

Don't trade Ray 

[Drucci]

By the way, here are some very interesting (and overlooked) stats that show how Ray's game is affected by Doc overplaying him.

Sure, Doc has nothing to do with days of rest, but it's obvious that Ray plays better when he has a few days off, and Doc playing him 40 minutes every night doesn't help Ray for the next game(s) :

0 Days Rest  (back to back) :    9 games  41%FG  26%3FG  76%FT 15 points

1 Day Rest 24 games 44%FG 34%3FG 91%FT 15 points

2 Days Rest 5 games 49%FG 33%3FG 87%FT 19 points

3 Days Rest 6 games 55%FG 44%3FG 100%FT 17 points

3+ Days Rest 1 game 31%FG 51%3FG 80%FT 16 points

Age is catching up with Ray when he has to play a lot of games in a short amount of time but the stats show how efficient he is when he has a lot of rest. He is still a killer.

Fortunately, in the playoffs, you have 2 days rest between each game so it will only make Ray more efficient.

With a stretch of 3 games in 4 days you can understand why Ray struggled mightily against Atlanta and L.A (while being brilliant against Orlando, by the way).

It's just another reason to keep Ray in my opinion. Doc is the biggest culprit : you can't blame Ray for aging but you can blame Doc for overplaying him. Even when Marquis will be back I'm sure he will keep overplaying Ray...