Author Topic: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread  (Read 123585 times)

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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #225 on: September 24, 2018, 09:19:09 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #226 on: September 24, 2018, 09:34:06 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well. 
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #227 on: September 24, 2018, 09:40:16 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #228 on: September 24, 2018, 10:13:49 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #229 on: September 25, 2018, 08:52:30 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
WCS is actually a pretty good fit next to Towns.  He provides the defending that Towns does not.  I assumed Skal would be a good Taj Gibson replacement.  Kings also have McLemore they could send. 

I don't think any team is giving up a player like Fox or Hield for Butler, especially when they take on Dieng in the process.  I really don't see Butler getting a big haul for the Wolves.  He has basically forced his way out of 2 places and is now an expiring contract.  The Wolves also don't have a lot of time to move him before training camp opens.  If they also move Dieng's bad contract, that cuts value returned to them significantly as well. 

As for whether Butler likes playing there, I have no idea.  It doesn't appear that he a problem with young players per se, but rather players that don't put the work in (and in that it doesn't matter if they are young or old).  By all accounts, Fox and Hield work very hard.  I have no idea about the big guys though and their work ethics.  But this is a 1 year rental for the Kings.  If Butler leaves next summer who cares as long as he dresses up and plays this year. 
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #230 on: September 25, 2018, 08:55:14 AM »

Offline greece66

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

It most definitely doesn't.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #231 on: September 25, 2018, 09:05:50 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #232 on: September 25, 2018, 09:26:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #233 on: September 25, 2018, 09:39:15 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
and how did he help Minny's guards (or any of there young players) develop?  didn't exactly inspire Wiggins or KAT to play D or better team ball or show them they should commit to a team to build it up to a contender.
OR
are you suggesting he's going to inspire Sac's young players to improve to where they can demand a trade to a better place to play?

seems like a great role model to put around young guys   ::)

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #234 on: September 25, 2018, 10:05:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
and how did he help Minny's guards (or any of there young players) develop?  didn't exactly inspire Wiggins or KAT to play D or better team ball or show them they should commit to a team to build it up to a contender.
OR
are you suggesting he's going to inspire Sac's young players to improve to where they can demand a trade to a better place to play?

seems like a great role model to put around young guys   ::)
There were questions of Wiggins and Towns work ethic before Butler got there.  That is one of the reasons the Wolves under performed, those guys just don't work hard.  Butler respects players that work hard and put in the effort that he does, that wasn't the case with Towns and Wiggins.  If the young Sacto players work hard, there isn't any reason to expect them to clash with Butler. 

That said, the Kings are far more likely to be a dumping ground in any Butler trade where they pick up an asset to take on a bad contract.  They still have like 11 million in cap room and they have a lot of mid sized expiring contracts they can send.  So they can absorb Dieng or some similarly bad contract from whatever team Butler ends up on and pick up a 1st or some young assets for their trouble.
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #235 on: September 25, 2018, 10:13:17 AM »

Offline positivitize

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Sacto getting Butler would hurt our pick, but also would potentially be a huge setback if he leaves. Hopefully Sac doesn't get him, for their sake AND ours.
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #236 on: September 25, 2018, 11:30:58 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this  :P


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #237 on: September 25, 2018, 11:47:36 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this  :P


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.
Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.
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Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #238 on: September 25, 2018, 12:55:29 PM »

Offline gift

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Quote
Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.
Butler would hate being on the Kings with all those young players.  Why would Minny want WCS and Skal?  They need a PG or wing.
Yeah, really unsure why Sacramento would even try. Unless they offer Fox and maybe Hield, they are definitely not getting Butler

Don't forget that the Kings are really, really, stupid. Derailing a rebuild in the name of "creating excitement" is exactly what idiotic organizations do.
I'm not really sure the trade I proposed derails a rebuild since the Kings don't own their pick this year anyway.  And having a guy like Butler might actually help their young guards develop.
Edit: Slamtheking beat me to the punch for most of this  :P


Except Butler doesn't have a great track record of working with young guys. Really the opposite. IMO he would quickly get frustrated and become toxic. Then he leaves in the offseason for nothing.

And even if he stays he is likely washed up before the young guys are good enough to contend. There are cheaper, "good locker room guy" vets out there that can provide arguably far more stability at no cost of picks or young talent.
Butler got along fine with the young guys in Chicago, it was the old vets (Rose, Noah, Wade, and Rondo) that were coasting and not putting in the work that angered Butler and caused a lot of the tension he had there.

I don't think you have that quite right. Rondo and Butler were definitely on opposite sides. But so were Rondo and Wade. Rondo was also definitely on the side of the young guys (they've even vouched for him since his time in chicago). So I'm pretty sure Butler, Wade and the old guys were against the young guys and Rondo.

Re: Sacramento Kings 2018-19 Season Watch Thread
« Reply #239 on: September 25, 2018, 12:57:59 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Quote
Dave Joerger, speaking on how Zach Randolph and Kosta Koufos helped the Kings win games last season: "I'm not saying those guys won't play but our bigger priority is to play as many young guys as possible."

https://twitter.com/mr_jasonjones/status/1044376268592967680

Good news for us.
Probably not.  I'd expect Bagley, at a minimum, to far out perform Randolph.  Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Giles and Labissierre also are just better than him.  Randolph has been deteriorating pretty quickly.  I frankly see that quote as Joerger trying to save some face for Randolph.

You might be right. There's definitely potential for the Kings to be better than people expect.

That said, most young guys, especially big men, aren't prepared to help their team win games. They may produce, and they may even show big-time potential, but most of the time, win totals don't go up until closer to their second contract.
Sure, but Randolph didn't actually help them win any games last year.  He had by far the worst on/off differential on the Kings last year at -7.6.  Koufos was also negative at -1.5.  Labissierre for comparison was a +3.9 and WCS was -0.9 (so at least better than Kosta and Zach). 

The simple reality is, Randolph is shot and Koufos just isn't any good.  Bagley, Giles, Labissierre, and of course WCS are going to be the main rotation because quite frankly they are going to be their 4 best big men (I'm counting Bjelica as a wing - see below). 

The Kings problem is going to be the wing.  They have only 2 wings on the roster, Justin Jackson and Jamel Artis.  That is their real problem as they are going to have to play Bjelica on the wing.  They really don't have any choice unless they play an undersized guard like Hield or McLemore their. 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they kicked the tires on Butler since they don't own their pick anyway.  I don't think they'd give up a premier young player for him, but they could absolutely absorb Dieng as well.  Obviously that depends on what Minnesota's market actually is.  But that would instantly make the Kings interesting (so say they give up salary filler, WCS and Skal for Butler and Dieng).  I don't know if a lineup of Fox, Hield, Butler, Bagley, Dieng with Giles, Ferrell, Bjelica, and Jackson makes the playoffs in the West, but it would at least make for some excitement in Sacramento for the season and if Butler leaves, oh well.

Butler would probably just pout if he was going to get traded there and would not offer to resign. This isn't a situation like Leonard in Toronto where they have a chance of making the finals and selling him on the city. That Sac town team at best would be like the 11th best team in the conference. One of the least likely place for him to end up outside of Boston.