If We Acquired Love & Harden, Are We Good Enough?

[gouki88]

I don't like the Love component but I'd absolutely acquire Harden. 

I still am not sold trading Walker is the right move, however when you acquire Harden, the optics aren't as bad.

I think I'd do something like this

Boston - Harden, Gordon, Randle
Houston - Brown, Knox, 2 BOS 1st
New York - Walker, Theis

Boston post-trade
Starters - Harden, Gordon, Tatum, Randle, Thompson
Main Rotation - Teague, Smart, Langford, Nesmith, Williams, Williams

I think that team has more top end potential thus giving it a better shot at winning the title.  And it does work without Gordon, he just struck me like a player that Houston might want to move on from if they moved on from Harden.  I might include Smart if I had to (it also works that way) though would fight to keep at least one, if not both, of the picks in that scenario.

I want absolutely no part of Gordon. He’s been really quite terrible over the last two years. Horribly inefficient chucker who sucks at defence. Would rather get PJ Tucker if possible.

End up with a starting group of: Harden - Smart - Tatum - Randle - Thompson, and a bench of: Tucker - Teague - Nesmith - Pritchard - Williams x 2.

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

[GreenWarrior]

Harden would ruin the culture. Love is one of the worst contracts out there. Not much need for nance at all really tbh. His 3pt shot has developed a bit and I love his energy, but I’d rather gamble on Theis/ TT and the youngins for bigs. I guess he’d add to our depth.

There’s a lot more positive that’d come from Nance, which is funny given future 1st ballot and 2nd ballot hofers are the center of this conversation.

What freaking culture?!?! Seriously?

Do you mean the culture of we're bordering on being the tinberwolves? Because we are.

Right now I'm not sure if it's really ainge or if it's just the players kind of using ainge as an excuse... But players don't want to play here.

I think ainge is definitely starting to get a reputation of just seeing players as commodities (which I could care less about but these feeble minded babies seem to so I guess it matters).

But there's something here that players seem to want nothing to do with... Real players, the players that matter.

[Somebody]

I don't like the Love component but I'd absolutely acquire Harden. 

I still am not sold trading Walker is the right move, however when you acquire Harden, the optics aren't as bad.

I think I'd do something like this

Boston - Harden, Gordon, Randle
Houston - Brown, Knox, 2 BOS 1st
New York - Walker, Theis

Boston post-trade
Starters - Harden, Gordon, Tatum, Randle, Thompson
Main Rotation - Teague, Smart, Langford, Nesmith, Williams, Williams

I think that team has more top end potential thus giving it a better shot at winning the title.  And it does work without Gordon, he just struck me like a player that Houston might want to move on from if they moved on from Harden.  I might include Smart if I had to (it also works that way) though would fight to keep at least one, if not both, of the picks in that scenario.

I want absolutely no part of Gordon. He’s been really quite terrible over the last two years. Horribly inefficient chucker who sucks at defence. Would rather get PJ Tucker if possible.

End up with a starting group of: Harden - Smart - Tatum - Randle - Thompson, and a bench of: Tucker - Teague - Nesmith - Pritchard - Williams x 2.

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

I'd start Tucker at PF instead of Randle for defence and three point shooting.

[Who]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations. 

[Moranis]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches. 

[Who]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches.

That previous post should say "how well they could co-exist" rather than "how they could co-exist".

Disagree on Harden on co-existing well with other stars. He had difficulties with Dwight Howard, CP3 and Westbrook.

Tatum has done well co-existing with stars who do not demand as much time on the ball & control of the offense as Harden does.

[Ogaju]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches.

That previous post should say "how well they could co-exist" rather than "how they could co-exist".

Disagree on Harden on co-existing well with other stars. He had difficulties with Dwight Howard, CP3 and Westbrook.

Tatum has done well co-existing with stars who do not demand as much time on the ball & control of the offense as Harden does.

Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward say hello!!!

[Moranis]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches.

That previous post should say "how well they could co-exist" rather than "how they could co-exist".

Disagree on Harden on co-existing well with other stars. He had difficulties with Dwight Howard, CP3 and Westbrook.

Tatum has done well co-existing with stars who do not demand as much time on the ball & control of the offense as Harden does.

Harden's issues were Houston let him do whatever he wanted and that rubbed his teammates the wrong way.  The last 3 years with CP3 and Westbrook both being pretty ball dominant PG's, Harden has put together the greatest 3 season offensive string since Jordan (and it is arguably better than any 3 season string in Jordan's career).  I mean Harden has led the league in scoring the last 3 seasons, while getting at least 7.5 apg in those seasons, not to mention 5.4, 6.6, and 6.6 rpg.  This idea that Harden has had difficulty on the court co-existing with other players just isn't borne in reality.  And it isn't like Westbrook wasn't still getting his, he even bumped his scoring nearly 4 a game from his last year in OKC to his year with Harden (obviously his rpg and apg suffered some).  And Westbrook's shooting percentage was BY FAR the best in his career playing next to Harden last year.  Paul is obviously aging, but his first season in Houston he had bumped up his ppg a bit from his last year in LA.  Now in OKC Paul was better than his last year in Houston so it does work both ways, though he was actually healthy last year for the first time in a long time (so that helps the numbers). 

So when I mean Harden can co-exist, I mean on the court.  Harden has certainly had off-court or personality issues with his teammates, but I do believe a lot of that is on Houston.  The article that came out recently was very telling.  I think one of the examples they used was everyone was waiting for film study to start and Westbrook was like let's start.  D'Antoni said something like, we'd just have to restart it when Harden got there, so there is no point in starting it.  That is the type of thing that competitive guys like Westbrook and Paul won't stand for, and that is why the relationship crumbled.  But that is on Houston not holding Harden accountable.  I don't think that is going to be an issue in Boston as Boston wouldn't stand for those super-extra perks that Harden is getting in Houston. 

[moiso]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches.

That previous post should say "how well they could co-exist" rather than "how they could co-exist".

Disagree on Harden on co-existing well with other stars. He had difficulties with Dwight Howard, CP3 and Westbrook.

Tatum has done well co-existing with stars who do not demand as much time on the ball & control of the offense as Harden does.

Harden's issues were Houston let him do whatever he wanted and that rubbed his teammates the wrong way.  The last 3 years with CP3 and Westbrook both being pretty ball dominant PG's, Harden has put together the greatest 3 season offensive string since Jordan (and it is arguably better than any 3 season string in Jordan's career).  I mean Harden has led the league in scoring the last 3 seasons, while getting at least 7.5 apg in those seasons, not to mention 5.4, 6.6, and 6.6 rpg.  This idea that Harden has had difficulty on the court co-existing with other players just isn't borne in reality.  And it isn't like Westbrook wasn't still getting his, he even bumped his scoring nearly 4 a game from his last year in OKC to his year with Harden (obviously his rpg and apg suffered some).  And Westbrook's shooting percentage was BY FAR the best in his career playing next to Harden last year.  Paul is obviously aging, but his first season in Houston he had bumped up his ppg a bit from his last year in LA.  Now in OKC Paul was better than his last year in Houston so it does work both ways, though he was actually healthy last year for the first time in a long time (so that helps the numbers). 

So when I mean Harden can co-exist, I mean on the court.  Harden has certainly had off-court or personality issues with his teammates, but I do believe a lot of that is on Houston.  The article that came out recently was very telling.  I think one of the examples they used was everyone was waiting for film study to start and Westbrook was like let's start.  D'Antoni said something like, we'd just have to restart it when Harden got there, so there is no point in starting it.  That is the type of thing that competitive guys like Westbrook and Paul won't stand for, and that is why the relationship crumbled.  But that is on Houston not holding Harden accountable.  I don't think that is going to be an issue in Boston as Boston wouldn't stand for those super-extra perks that Harden is getting in Houston.

Is taking turns the same as coexisting?  Harden takes turns with other stars.  When it's the other star's turn Harden isn't playing basketball.  He's likely to barely be over the half court line.

[BringToughnessBack]

If we acquired those two players at cost of Smart, Brown and others, we would have the worst defensive team in the league and would probably give up over 130 points a game to teams like the Lakers, Bucks, Sixers and Nets.

[AshyLarry]

Harden would ruin the culture. Love is one of the worst contracts out there. Not much need for nance at all really tbh. His 3pt shot has developed a bit and I love his energy, but I’d rather gamble on Theis/ TT and the youngins for bigs. I guess he’d add to our depth.

There’s a lot more positive that’d come from Nance, which is funny given future 1st ballot and 2nd ballot hofers are the center of this conversation.

What freaking culture?!?! Seriously?

Do you mean the culture of we're bordering on being the tinberwolves? Because we are.

Right now I'm not sure if it's really ainge or if it's just the players kind of using ainge as an excuse... But players don't want to play here.

I think ainge is definitely starting to get a reputation of just seeing players as commodities (which I could care less about but these feeble minded babies seem to so I guess it matters).

But there's something here that players seem to want nothing to do with... Real players, the players that matter.

Interesting take. Culture exists one way or another, while I do agree that big named free agents are more reluctant to come here than other big market teams (sans knicks lol). We have what we have though and the Danny/ Brad system is in place for the time being.

With that being said, I just don’t think Harden is the answer, even if we fired them and went with a new staff. If we’re talking about winning playoff games, his superstar has yet to really translate- seems like a diva. The glass slipper is a little too trashy for his needs lol. I think he’d end up jumping ship one way or another.

That’s where we’re at. I’m happy to have the developing jays for the time being. Their potential brings future opportunity if they remain happy here. Given Boston’s stigma that’s not the worst plan. But feel free to set your sights on a big market team known for signing superstars. I hear those Lakers are doing pretty good nowdays.

[gouki88]

I know Harden’s whole thing has been a debacle, but he’s still uber talented. He’s overly criticised for not winning when he’d be a champion if Chris Paul was durable.

My main concern would be him & Tatum to be honest.

Yeah, I don't know how well those two would co-exist. Tatum needs a lot of touches and to get them in a variety of spots / situations.

both of them have done just fine sharing the load with other players needing touches.

That previous post should say "how well they could co-exist" rather than "how they could co-exist".

Disagree on Harden on co-existing well with other stars. He had difficulties with Dwight Howard, CP3 and Westbrook.

Tatum has done well co-existing with stars who do not demand as much time on the ball & control of the offense as Harden does.

Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward say hello!!!

Both of whom don’t fit the description Who provided. Not sure why you brought them up

[GreenWarrior]

Harden would ruin the culture. Love is one of the worst contracts out there. Not much need for nance at all really tbh. His 3pt shot has developed a bit and I love his energy, but I’d rather gamble on Theis/ TT and the youngins for bigs. I guess he’d add to our depth.

There’s a lot more positive that’d come from Nance, which is funny given future 1st ballot and 2nd ballot hofers are the center of this conversation.

What freaking culture?!?! Seriously?

Do you mean the culture of we're bordering on being the tinberwolves? Because we are.

Right now I'm not sure if it's really ainge or if it's just the players kind of using ainge as an excuse... But players don't want to play here.

I think ainge is definitely starting to get a reputation of just seeing players as commodities (which I could care less about but these feeble minded babies seem to so I guess it matters).

But there's something here that players seem to want nothing to do with... Real players, the players that matter.

Interesting take. Culture exists one way or another, while I do agree that big named free agents are more reluctant to come here than other big market teams (sans knicks lol). We have what we have though and the Danny/ Brad system is in place for the time being.

With that being said, I just don’t think Harden is the answer, even if we fired them and went with a new staff. If we’re talking about winning playoff games, his superstar has yet to really translate- seems like a diva. The glass slipper is a little too trashy for his needs lol. I think he’d end up jumping ship one way or another.

That’s where we’re at. I’m happy to have the developing jays for the time being. Their potential brings future opportunity if they remain happy here. Given Boston’s stigma that’s not the worst plan. But feel free to set your sights on a big market team known for signing superstars. I hear those Lakers are doing pretty good nowdays.

I'll say this if all we're going to do is sit behind the 3 pt line and Chuck three's we need harden yesterday.

[Rondo9]

Harden would ruin the culture. Love is one of the worst contracts out there. Not much need for nance at all really tbh. His 3pt shot has developed a bit and I love his energy, but I’d rather gamble on Theis/ TT and the youngins for bigs. I guess he’d add to our depth.

There’s a lot more positive that’d come from Nance, which is funny given future 1st ballot and 2nd ballot hofers are the center of this conversation.

But there's something here that players seem to want nothing to do with... Real players, the players that matter.

Kemba and Horford don't matter?! 

[AshyLarry]

Harden would ruin the culture. Love is one of the worst contracts out there. Not much need for nance at all really tbh. His 3pt shot has developed a bit and I love his energy, but I’d rather gamble on Theis/ TT and the youngins for bigs. I guess he’d add to our depth.

There’s a lot more positive that’d come from Nance, which is funny given future 1st ballot and 2nd ballot hofers are the center of this conversation.

What freaking culture?!?! Seriously?

Do you mean the culture of we're bordering on being the tinberwolves? Because we are.

Right now I'm not sure if it's really ainge or if it's just the players kind of using ainge as an excuse... But players don't want to play here.

I think ainge is definitely starting to get a reputation of just seeing players as commodities (which I could care less about but these feeble minded babies seem to so I guess it matters).

But there's something here that players seem to want nothing to do with... Real players, the players that matter.

Interesting take. Culture exists one way or another, while I do agree that big named free agents are more reluctant to come here than other big market teams (sans knicks lol). We have what we have though and the Danny/ Brad system is in place for the time being.

With that being said, I just don’t think Harden is the answer, even if we fired them and went with a new staff. If we’re talking about winning playoff games, his superstar has yet to really translate- seems like a diva. The glass slipper is a little too trashy for his needs lol. I think he’d end up jumping ship one way or another.

That’s where we’re at. I’m happy to have the developing jays for the time being. Their potential brings future opportunity if they remain happy here. Given Boston’s stigma that’s not the worst plan. But feel free to set your sights on a big market team known for signing superstars. I hear those Lakers are doing pretty good nowdays.

I'll say this if all we're going to do is sit behind the 3 pt line and Chuck three's we need harden yesterday.

I 100% give you that hahaha