Poll: Do You Want The C's To Acquire James Harden?

[Moranis]

The Rockets don't own their own pick this year and several future years, they aren't going to tank.  They obviously want some draft capital back for Harden, but they also want players that will keep them relevant (whether they are young or older doesn't matter a ton).  This should be obvious. 

[Vermont Green]

If the trade for Harden ($41.2M) is based on Jaylen Brown ($22.7M), you almost certainly need to include Smart ($12.9M) to get the salaries to match.  If the base trade is Kemba Walker ($34.3M) you can get to salary match with say Langford ($3.6M).  So I look at this as Brown AND Smart or Kemba and whatever.

I don't see anyone offering years of first round picks for Harden like OKC got for Paul George.  That trade was really getting BOTH George and Kawhi Leonard for the package of players and picks.  Do the trade and Kawhi signs.  No trade, probably no Kawhi.  It is not like that with Harden.  With Paul George, you also got Kawhi, with Harden, the only other thing you get is baggage.

I actually would not trade Brown and Smart (plus some picks assumed).  It is not that Harden isn't necessarily worth it from a pure talent standpoint, it is just more of a lateral for the team when you consider how you are really reconstructing around Harden.

Now if it was Kemba and Langford as the base, you are keeping more of the team intact.  You are still getting the baggage with Harden but you are taking the chance that he has grown up and will listen to the coach and try to fit in by accepting some level of adjustment to his game.  If he does that, you are an instant title contender and maybe for a number of years.  If not, you have to deal with Harden by trade or let him sign elsewhere but that will probably be the case with Kemba anyway.

As I said, I don't think anyone is going to offer a Paul George level deal for Harden.  A Walker Langford start to a package will likely be in the ballpark from Houston's perspective of looking for the best deal.  It probably won't be the best but maybe.  Anyway, that is what I would put on the table and let the chips fall where they may.

[PAOBoston]

Why on earth are people proposing Kemba to Houston? They just took on John Wall’s deal so Kemba is probably a non starter in a package to them so he’d have to go to a third team and it’s pretty unlikely he nets any sort of blue chip prospect considering he has chronic knee issue now.

Any deal for Harden would need to be centered around Brown/Smart for a value perspective and a salary perspective. I don’t think the Cs are willing to do that and I also don’t think Harden really wants to come here.

[RJ87]

The Rockets don't own their own pick this year and several future years, they aren't going to tank.  They obviously want some draft capital back for Harden, but they also want players that will keep them relevant (whether they are young or older doesn't matter a ton).  This should be obvious.

They've already leaked that they want a young centerpiece back. That's not Kemba Walker. And unless they get a legit superstar back, they're in the West. Tanking might not be a choice.

[RJ87]

And for everyone who keeps acting like Walker is just a damaged bag of potatoes and has 0 trade value is also incorrect. Hal act like John wall wasn’t just traded, like IT wasn’t traded for Kyrie.... Kemba was just an All-star last season.... he has a knee issue not a torn ACL or something broken... he can still actually play.

Theis is STILL a starting level big. Rather he’s playing Center or PF he has been starting for at least 2 seasons and I STRONGLY believe if he wasn’t hurt the Celtics would have beat Lebron in the ECF that year.

On top of that 3 or 4 first rounders....that’s a great deal and if that’s not the deal I’m not interested. Brown and Tatum must stay, I’m on the fence with Smart. If it’s Kemba + Smart then they get less draft picks. But Kemba + Smart + Theis is 3 starters, 1 All-Star, and 1 1st team All-Defender.... how are these not fair trades?

I think the Celtics have the best offer with Kemba and picks. No one else is offering an All-Star.

The key is the thrid team. I do not see Houston wanting Kemba.

If there is a third team that needs kemba for an allstar at a different position then you can make a deal. But I dont know of one.

Maybe Spurs for Demar Derozan?

Screw all that 3rd team jazz that’s for Houston to figure out. They just traded for a player whom hasn’t played in 2 seasons! We are giving them a current All-Star who has value. If they choose to flip him for more players or something then cool, that’s not the Celtics issue. They are getting Kemba + Hella draft picks, the only teams that can match that are non contenders. They can flip him to the knicks for even more draft picks and some players if they want. The Rockets will undoubtedly have options with Wall and Kemba next off-season.

Why would they want Kemba?

- Current All-Star
- Unselfish
- Locker room guy
- Professional
- 20 PPG player
- A veteran for younger players
- LOCKED IN TO A MULTI YEAR CONTRACT


The new team:


PG: Harden/Teague/Waters/Pitchard
SG: Smart/Langford/Edwards
SF: Brown/Naismith/Green
PF: Tatum/G.Williams/Jefferson
C: Thompson/R.Williams/Fall

This gives those young draft picks PLAYING TIME. Let them boys finally get some minutes so they can become valuable either for us or for some other team. By time Hardens contract is up, our bench young’s will be in like their 3rd year. The interesting thing about the Celtics is they have players who can’t do nothing but improve because they are so young and raw. Every year they will improve instead of the bench aging or just plain untalented like most rosters. We have a bench full of 1 round draft picks....

Houston is not accepting a package centered around a 30 year old PG that's injured. The Cavs took that gamble with IT because they were trying to keep their championship aspirations alive. It also helped that they were getting an unprotected Nets pick that was guaranteed top 10. We have no picks with that cache.

And they took Wall because that was pretty much the only option to match Westbrook's salary.

If Boston wants to play ball here, they're giving up at least Jaylen Brown. It's a bit delusional to think otherwise. Especially considering that the teams Harden actually wants to go to (Brooklyn, Philly, Miami, Milwaukee) can put together trade packages with younger, healthier players.

I’ll keep the “delusions” alive then. I think that’s still a solid offer regardless. If they want more than ok we move forward, but that’s the offer I’d shoot. Harden comes with a lot and his antics aren’t increasing his trade value. Who are these top 25 and under players that Houston is expecting to get? No team is looking to trade their young studs for Harden because they are looking to ADD him on to the core, so what’s the next option?

Then they are looking for non playoff teams who are now in danger to mortgaging their future for a player whom may not stay. Not many young teams are ready to risk it all like that, which limits the teams again! I’m firm on believing that’s a good trade, until I’m argued more on just the knee issue that only was a problem 1 season of Kemba’s entire career.  Kemba was playing 70+ games before the Celtics....

The knee issue is chronic and its already going into a 2nd season of it being a problem. The procedure he had done is not a guarantee. We hope it works, but we won't know until he's back on the court. If we trade Kemba now to any team, it's likely as a salary dump.

But aside from his knee, there's age. Houston will be rebuilding and have already leaked that they want a young player that can be a franchise cornerstone. Kemba is 30. He's not a key piece in a longterm rebuild. Over the past few years, most superstar trades have fetched at least one blue chip prospect. AD got Ingram. Paul George got SGA (and Indy previously got Oladipo and Sabonis for him). I can't recall a star trade in recent memory where a player aged 30 or over was the headlining piece. Maybe CP3 for Westbrook, but weird circumstances surrounded that trade.

PG: Wall/Grant
SG: Walker/Mecklenmore
SF: Gordon/Green
PF: Woods/Tucker
C:  Theis/Cousins
————————

And they will have 15 draft picks with the 3 included from the Celtics. They have a solid starting lineup as they have no reason to lose...they don’t have many of their own draft picks at all. Then losing is only helping other teams out so why wouldn’t they want starter caliber players???

That's not a playoff team in the West. Especially with Kemba missing the beginning of the season and needing load management when he gets back. In a perfect world where John Wall and Kemba come back 100% and Gordon also stays, healthy maybe they sneak in as an 8th seed, but.... Nah, I can't even talk it up. That's not a playoff team in the West.

[Jvalin]

Thanks, but no thanks for Harden. If we are trading with the Rockets, my target is Christian Wood. Can't trade for him right now cause they just signed him via free agency. Would love us to go after Wood at the trade deadline.

[GreenBoomer]

Celtics - Harden
Houston - Langford
                  Ojeleye
                  Edwards
                  DeRozan
                  Lyles
Spurs - Walker
              McLemore

Throw in picks to balance.
 

And for everyone who keeps acting like Walker is just a damaged bag of potatoes and has 0 trade value is also incorrect. Hal act like John wall wasn’t just traded, like IT wasn’t traded for Kyrie.... Kemba was just an All-star last season.... he has a knee issue not a torn ACL or something broken... he can still actually play.

Theis is STILL a starting level big. Rather he’s playing Center or PF he has been starting for at least 2 seasons and I STRONGLY believe if he wasn’t hurt the Celtics would have beat Lebron in the ECF that year.

On top of that 3 or 4 first rounders....that’s a great deal and if that’s not the deal I’m not interested. Brown and Tatum must stay, I’m on the fence with Smart. If it’s Kemba + Smart then they get less draft picks. But Kemba + Smart + Theis is 3 starters, 1 All-Star, and 1 1st team All-Defender.... how are these not fair trades?

I think the Celtics have the best offer with Kemba and picks. No one else is offering an All-Star.

The key is the thrid team. I do not see Houston wanting Kemba.

If there is a third team that needs kemba for an allstar at a different position then you can make a deal. But I dont know of one.

Maybe Spurs for Demar mo and some players if they want. The Rockets will undoubtedly have options with Wall and Kemba next off-season.

Why would they want Kemba?

- Current All-Star
- Unselfish
- Locker room guy
- Professional
- 20 PPG player
- A veteran for younger players
- LOCKED IN TO A MULTI YEAR CONTRACT


The new team:


PG: Harden/Teague/Waters/Pitchard
SG: Smart/Langford/Edwards
SF: Brown/Naismith/Green
PF: Tatum/G.Williams/Jefferson
C: Thompson/R.Williams/Fall

This gives those young draft picks PLAYING TIME. Let them boys finally get some minutes so they can become valuable either for us or for some other team. By time Hardens contract is up, our bench young’s will be in like their 3rd year. The interesting thing about the Celtics is they have players who can’t do nothing but improve because they are so young and raw. Every year they will improve instead of the bench aging or just plain untalented like most rosters. We have a bench full of 1 round draft picks....

Houston is not accepting a package centered around a 30 year old PG that's injured. The Cavs took that gamble with IT because they were trying to keep their championship aspirations alive. It also helped that they were getting an unprotected Nets pick that was guaranteed top 10. We have no picks with that cache.

And they took Wall because that was pretty much the only option to match Westbrook's salary.

If Boston wants to play ball here, they're giving up at least Jaylen Brown. It's a bit delusional to think otherwise. Especially considering that the teams Harden actually wants to go to (Brooklyn, Philly, Miami, Milwaukee) can put together trade packages with younger, healthier players.

I’ll keep the “delusions” alive then. I think that’s still a solid offer regardless. If they want more than ok we move forward, but that’s the offer I’d shoot. Harden comes with a lot and his antics aren’t increasing his trade value. Who are these top 25 and under players that Houston is expecting to get? No team is looking to trade their young studs for Harden because they are looking to ADD him on to the core, so what’s the next option?

Then they are looking for non playoff teams who are now in danger to mortgaging their future for a player whom may not stay. Not many young teams are ready to risk it all like that, which limits the teams again! I’m firm on believing that’s a good trade, until I’m argued more on just the knee issue that only was a problem 1 season of Kemba’s entire career.  Kemba was playing 70+ games before the Celtics....

The knee issue is chronic and its already going into a 2nd season of it being a problem. The procedure he had done is not a guarantee. We hope it works, but we won't know until he's back on the court. If we trade Kemba now to any team, it's likely as a salary dump.

But aside from his knee, there's age. Houston will be rebuilding and have already leaked that they want a young player that can be a franchise cornerstone. Kemba is 30. He's not a key piece in a longterm rebuild. Over the past few years, most superstar trades have fetched at least one blue chip prospect. AD got Ingram. Paul George got SGA (and Indy previously got Oladipo and Sabonis for him). I can't recall a star trade in recent memory where a player aged 30 or over was the headlining piece. Maybe CP3 for Westbrook, but weird circumstances surrounded that trade.

PG: Wall/Grant
SG: Walker/Mecklenmore
SF: Gordon/Green
PF: Woods/Tucker
C:  Theis/Cousins
————————

And they will have 15 draft picks with the 3 included from the Celtics. They have a solid starting lineup as they have no reason to lose...they don’t have many of their own draft picks at all. Then losing is only helping other teams out so why wouldn’t they want starter caliber players???

That's not a playoff team in the West. Especially with Kemba missing the beginning of the season and needing load management when he gets back. In a perfect world where John Wall and Kemba come back 100% and Gordon also stays, healthy maybe they sneak in as an 8th seed, but.... Nah, I can't even talk it up. That's not a playoff team in the West.

[dannyboy35]

  I’d give Kemba/ smart / Theis picks but we’d be outbid with that offer ,pretty easily. It’s such a risk that he goes Kyrie on us. I think we have to feel we are at the very least the clear East favorites on paper and I think the only way that happens is keeping BOTH the jays and acquiring Harden.
   If its a Brad can’t handle big egos thing only then Brad can go. But I trust Danny in this.

[Vermont Green]

Why on earth are people proposing Kemba to Houston? They just took on John Wall’s deal so Kemba is probably a non starter in a package to them so he’d have to go to a third team and it’s pretty unlikely he nets any sort of blue chip prospect considering he has chronic knee issue now.

Any deal for Harden would need to be centered around Brown/Smart for a value perspective and a salary perspective. I don’t think the Cs are willing to do that and I also don’t think Harden really wants to come here.

I agree that Houston can probably do better than Walker plus whatever but that is still what I would offer if I was the Celtics.  If they don't like that offer, fine, Houston can find a better deal and the Celtics can move on.

I also agree that Brown and Smart is probably what Houston would want but even that may not be enough for Houston.  I don't want to go that far, not so much that it isn't necessarily a fair trade in terms of Harden's talent, I just don't think it is a good idea to turn over that much of the young core to bring in a talent that is riddled with risk in terms of style of play and overall team chemistry.

[mrceltics2013]

And for everyone who keeps acting like Walker is just a damaged bag of potatoes and has 0 trade value is also incorrect. Hal act like John wall wasn’t just traded, like IT wasn’t traded for Kyrie.... Kemba was just an All-star last season.... he has a knee issue not a torn ACL or something broken... he can still actually play.

Theis is STILL a starting level big. Rather he’s playing Center or PF he has been starting for at least 2 seasons and I STRONGLY believe if he wasn’t hurt the Celtics would have beat Lebron in the ECF that year.

On top of that 3 or 4 first rounders....that’s a great deal and if that’s not the deal I’m not interested. Brown and Tatum must stay, I’m on the fence with Smart. If it’s Kemba + Smart then they get less draft picks. But Kemba + Smart + Theis is 3 starters, 1 All-Star, and 1 1st team All-Defender.... how are these not fair trades?

I think the Celtics have the best offer with Kemba and picks. No one else is offering an All-Star.

The key is the thrid team. I do not see Houston wanting Kemba.

If there is a third team that needs kemba for an allstar at a different position then you can make a deal. But I dont know of one.

Maybe Spurs for Demar Derozan?

Screw all that 3rd team jazz that’s for Houston to figure out. They just traded for a player whom hasn’t played in 2 seasons! We are giving them a current All-Star who has value. If they choose to flip him for more players or something then cool, that’s not the Celtics issue. They are getting Kemba + Hella draft picks, the only teams that can match that are non contenders. They can flip him to the knicks for even more draft picks and some players if they want. The Rockets will undoubtedly have options with Wall and Kemba next off-season.

Why would they want Kemba?

- Current All-Star
- Unselfish
- Locker room guy
- Professional
- 20 PPG player
- A veteran for younger players
- LOCKED IN TO A MULTI YEAR CONTRACT


The new team:


PG: Harden/Teague/Waters/Pitchard
SG: Smart/Langford/Edwards
SF: Brown/Naismith/Green
PF: Tatum/G.Williams/Jefferson
C: Thompson/R.Williams/Fall

This gives those young draft picks PLAYING TIME. Let them boys finally get some minutes so they can become valuable either for us or for some other team. By time Hardens contract is up, our bench young’s will be in like their 3rd year. The interesting thing about the Celtics is they have players who can’t do nothing but improve because they are so young and raw. Every year they will improve instead of the bench aging or just plain untalented like most rosters. We have a bench full of 1 round draft picks....

Houston is not accepting a package centered around a 30 year old PG that's injured. The Cavs took that gamble with IT because they were trying to keep their championship aspirations alive. It also helped that they were getting an unprotected Nets pick that was guaranteed top 10. We have no picks with that cache.

And they took Wall because that was pretty much the only option to match Westbrook's salary.

If Boston wants to play ball here, they're giving up at least Jaylen Brown. It's a bit delusional to think otherwise. Especially considering that the teams Harden actually wants to go to (Brooklyn, Philly, Miami, Milwaukee) can put together trade packages with younger, healthier players.

I’ll keep the “delusions” alive then. I think that’s still a solid offer regardless. If they want more than ok we move forward, but that’s the offer I’d shoot. Harden comes with a lot and his antics aren’t increasing his trade value. Who are these top 25 and under players that Houston is expecting to get? No team is looking to trade their young studs for Harden because they are looking to ADD him on to the core, so what’s the next option?

Then they are looking for non playoff teams who are now in danger to mortgaging their future for a player whom may not stay. Not many young teams are ready to risk it all like that, which limits the teams again! I’m firm on believing that’s a good trade, until I’m argued more on just the knee issue that only was a problem 1 season of Kemba’s entire career.  Kemba was playing 70+ games before the Celtics....

The knee issue is chronic and its already going into a 2nd season of it being a problem. The procedure he had done is not a guarantee. We hope it works, but we won't know until he's back on the court. If we trade Kemba now to any team, it's likely as a salary dump.

But aside from his knee, there's age. Houston will be rebuilding and have already leaked that they want a young player that can be a franchise cornerstone. Kemba is 30. He's not a key piece in a longterm rebuild. Over the past few years, most superstar trades have fetched at least one blue chip prospect. AD got Ingram. Paul George got SGA (and Indy previously got Oladipo and Sabonis for him). I can't recall a star trade in recent memory where a player aged 30 or over was the headlining piece. Maybe CP3 for Westbrook, but weird circumstances surrounded that trade.

PG: Wall/Grant
SG: Walker/Mecklenmore
SF: Gordon/Green
PF: Woods/Tucker
C:  Theis/Cousins
————————

And they will have 15 draft picks with the 3 included from the Celtics. They have a solid starting lineup as they have no reason to lose...they don’t have many of their own draft picks at all. Then losing is only helping other teams out so why wouldn’t they want starter caliber players???

That's not a playoff team in the West. Especially with Kemba missing the beginning of the season and needing load management when he gets back. In a perfect world where John Wall and Kemba come back 100% and Gordon also stays, healthy maybe they sneak in as an 8th seed, but.... Nah, I can't even talk it up. That's not a playoff team in the West.

They are absolutely a contending playoff team in the west I don’t agree with that statement. The west is full of duo’s and I think y’all are severely underrating Kemba and I’m not sure why. He’s not trashed goods the man was still an All-Star averaging 20ppg.

It’s like arguing Dame and Mccolum don’t work together... like cmon. The West isn’t how it use to be if the bubble hasn’t taught you anything. Lebron exposed what is left of the West, he breezed through just like he would in the East. The NBA needed the ultra Warriors and without them ANYONE CAN MAKE IT!

I don’t see this young cornerstone they are supposed to getting. Unless the Raptors or Indiana decided to come into the Harden game I think Kemba gives the better packaged deal. I’d even argue Kemba is a better deal than Victor as Kemba has a longer contract and IS AN ALL-STAR.

Now if the Raps offer 2 of Siakum, Lowery, OG and a pick or 2 then ok 👌🏾 they got it.

I feel like no one would argue Lowery and Wall playing together but have no issue arguing Walker and Wall...lol

[GreenlyGreeny]

Brown will never be as good as Harden. Brown may never become better than borderline all-star. Superstars rarely become available. In this case, I think the Rockets would take Brown and picks in return for Harden.

It’s really a no-brainer: We’re probably not good enough to beat  Philly, let alone LA, but by essentially replacing Brown (and future picks) with Harden we’re likely the favorites to win it all this year and next.

[RodyTur10]

[michigan adam]

This makes us a much worse team.  We might have more talent overall(arguably) but Harden will not fit in the culture of this team.  You might as well trade tatum and smart in seperate trades and start over.  Harden is a cancer...way worst than KI, and will not push them to win...probably any additionan games, despite a talent upgrade.  Harden is a cancer that makes virtually every TEAM worse. 

[jambr380]

So, instead of saying Brown OR Kemba for Harden, we are now trading both of them?

If the Bulls want Kemba (and we are moving on from him for some reason), I'll take Lavine/WCJ, and keep Brown/the picks.

[nickagneta]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

THE HOUSTON ROCKETS' culture in the James Harden era, which bridges two owners and now four head coaches, might be best summed up by a former staffer's three words:

"Whatever James wants."

Unless they were on the front end of a back-to-back set, it was essentially a sure thing that the Rockets stayed overnight -- or even an extra day -- after games in Los Angeles, Phoenix and other road cities that rank among Harden's favorite stops.

If the Rockets had two or three days between games, it was a good bet Harden would call for an off day and charter a private jet to party in Las Vegas or another city. He always gets an excused absence from the first practice after the All-Star break for the same reason.

By leaving the Rockets twisting in the wind while camp opened with little communication, Harden made his absence the focus of rookie head coach Stephen Silas' first days of practice. And by blowing off the NBA's COVID-19 protocols, partying maskless during the pandemic and boasting about it on Instagram, Harden revealed what could come if he doesn't get his way.

"Yeah, he's going to act up," a former Rockets staffer said.

"He's never heard 'no' before."

"If they have multiple days off, everybody knows: James is going to fly somewhere else and party," a member of last season's coaching staff said. "But he's going to come back and have a 50-point triple-double, so they're OK with it."

But the lack of discipline and attention to detail hasn't been OK with Paul and Russell Westbrook, ultimately leading to breakups between Harden and those two stars.

One of Paul's biggest beefs, sources said, was that Harden basically opted not to participate in the Rockets' offense when the ball wasn't in his hands, sometimes barely stepping over half court while spectating when Paul had the ball. Harden quickly tired of Paul barking about his concerns, which included lobbying coach Mike D'Antoni to implement more structure and movement in an offensive system that revolved around Harden's isolations, sources said.

This is the guy posters are going out of their way to concoct trade proposals for.

No thank you, Houston. You can keep him.