anybody else glad we have jaylen over simmons

[greece66]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

Yep, I've come a lot around this in discussions among fans. It's true that many see us like that. But then it's not such a bad thing either.

[hwangjini_1]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

Yep, I've come a lot around this in discussions among fans. It's true that many see us like that. But then it's not such a bad thing either.

ha, ha...love the pix. tp for you g666.

[drogbagarnett]

WOW!
So many people will be eating their words here once that drama queen one trick pony will be exposed and Jaylen will turn out to be a two way stud!
Great topic/post to come back to in a couple of years and see how perception will change...

Zach Randolph
Lebron James
Blake Griffin
James Harden
Dwight Howard
Demarcus Cousins
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Rasheed Wallace
Rajon Rondo

That's 10 guys, Just off the top of my head, who (at some point or other) have been criticised for their attitude or their work ethic - or in some cases both.

Everybody on that list has been top 5 at their position at some point in their careers, and (with the exception of Lebron James) there may not be a single guy on that list who has more raw talent then Simmons does.

I like Jaylen Brown a lot, but Simmons is a far superior prospect.  It's not even remotely close.  I don't think there's a single GM in this league who would trade Simmons (if they had him) for Brown - not even Danny.

Ingram maybe, but Simmons?  No way.  That guy might be the talented prospect to come in to the league since Lebron.  Whether he makes the most of that talent is a whole other question that only time can answer.

Given a chance to trade Jaylen Brown out in return for anybody on that list (in their prime) I hazard a guess that 8/10 people on this board would pull the trigger.

OK so then lets see how well Simmons harvest his talent to make it a winning card...
So that when he steps on the floor against Brown he doesn't just do a couple of highlight passes and take the L but actually influence the results of the game by rebounding, defending without fouling, knocking down shots, and showing his dominance not on the boards here but actually on the floor...
How well is pulls players around him to lead them and make them better (the way he did with his  LSU teammates, right...?)
 

[Moranis]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

this explains why simmons was the #1 pick. but it also seems to assume that being the #1 is proof of these assumptions. history speaks otherwise.

most #1s do very well, but not all. and a not insignificant number of #1s turn out to NOT be the best from the draft after a few years.

so, it is too early to decide this debate.

EDIT to add a few examples of #1 =/= best of the draft.

Noel (#6) > Bennett (#1)
Cousins (#5) > Wall (#1), debatable, but yes for some minds
Curry (#7) > Griffin (#1)
Westbrook (#4) > Rose, (#1), debatable again, but arguments can be made
Durant (#2) > Oden (#1)
Aldridge (#2) > Bargnani (#1)
Paul (#4) > Bogut (#1)
Pau Gasol (#3) > Kwame Brown (#1)

I had a thread on here and basically since Shaq in 92 the drafts where there was a consensus #1 pick that player was the best player taken in the draft except for Kobe over Iverson, Westbrook over Rose, and Durant over Oden (though Rose and Oden's injuries will always be a whatif and make you wonder as Rose was a league MVP and Oden showed immense potential prior to the injuries).  And even in those years, injuries aside, the player taken #1 was no worse than the 2nd best player in the draft.  In the drafts where there wasn't a consensus #1, the player taken #1 was almost always not even in the top 5 best players taken in the draft. 

Simmons was the consensus #1 player.  Barring injury that means he will almost certainly be no worse than the 2nd best player in the draft and will most likely be the best player taken in the draft.  This makes perfect sense, when all the scouts agree on a player, that player is going to be pretty darn good (I mean Iverson and Rose were league MVP's for crying out loud, they just had a guy that was better than them in their draft). 

What the research also showed was that all #1 picks aren't equal.  I mean everyone knows this, but for every Lebron James there is a Kenyon Martin.  Both consensus #1 picks and both the best player from their draft, but a very significant difference in their overall career trajectory.  So using historical metrics, Simmons, barring injury, will very likely be the best player in his draft, how good he ultimately comes is certainly unknown though.

[rollie mass]

moranus seems to think this was an all star bad post-believe me i have read some poor posts
 simmons lazy and has no will to play good defense,busted jumper,avoids contact and doesn't like rebounding in a crowd-
jaylen did not squander his freshman year but used it to build advisors and take post graduate courses
imagine a number one pick that can't take a jumper,ball dominant ,doesn't stretch the floor,avoids contact,average wingspan and standing reach,doesn't rebound in a crowd ,will not shoot in 4th quarter,doesn't close out-and has a attitude red flag
jaylen last three games after coming back from knee injury were all above 20-25pts and avg  6 boards and 2.8 steals along with 16ppg
-rozier had almost as many rebounds per game and assists and outscored the number one pick with 19ppg to simmons 10ppg
jaylens high school team beat simmons montrverde team with all 5 stars and jaylen won mvp

[Moranis]

moranus seems to think this was an all star bad post-believe me i have read some poor posts
 simmons lazy and has no will to play good defense,busted jumper,avoids contact and doesn't like rebounding in a crowd-
jaylen did not squander his freshman year but used it to build advisors and take post graduate courses
imagine a number one pick that can't take a jumper,ball dominant ,doesn't stretch the floor,avoids contact,average wingspan and standing reach,doesn't rebound in a crowd ,will not shoot in 4th quarter,doesn't close out-and has a attitude red flag
jaylen last three games after coming back from knee injury were all above 20-25pts and avg  6 boards and 2.8 steals along with 16ppg
-rozier had almost as many rebounds per game and assists and outscored the number one pick with 19ppg to simmons 10ppg
jaylens high school team beat simmons montrverde team with all 5 stars and jaylen won mvp

There is so much nonsense in this post it is hard to take anything you say seriously.  I mean a guy that averages almost 12 rebounds and shoots 9 foul shots a game avoids contact and can't rebound in traffic.  A guy that shoots 56% from the field and 67% from the line, can't make shots.  The same guy that scores 1.65 pps and dishes out almost 5 assists a game, is ball dominant. 

There isn't a single relevant statistically category in which Jaylen Brown outperformed Ben Simmons in college and that includes TOV% and USG%.  In fact, Brown's usage was almost 5% higher than Simmons.  His turnover % was higher, his assist % and RB% were just over half of Simmons, Brown was a lesser shooter from every single spot on the floor and scored at a much lower rate of efficiency.

This is a ridiculous thread because it isn't supported by any shred of actual evidence based on actual gameplay.  Given one was the consensus #1 pick and that was the guy in which the stats are in favor of, this is unattainable position and really does make Celtics fans look crazy.  There is nothing that would lead any rationale person to want Jaylen Brown over Ben Simmons.  Nothing at all.   

[celticsclay]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

this explains why simmons was the #1 pick. but it also seems to assume that being the #1 is proof of these assumptions. history speaks otherwise.

most #1s do very well, but not all. and a not insignificant number of #1s turn out to NOT be the best from the draft after a few years.

so, it is too early to decide this debate.

EDIT to add a few examples of #1 =/= best of the draft.

Noel (#6) > Bennett (#1)
Cousins (#5) > Wall (#1), debatable, but yes for some minds
Curry (#7) > Griffin (#1)
Westbrook (#4) > Rose, (#1), debatable again, but arguments can be made
Durant (#2) > Oden (#1)
Aldridge (#2) > Bargnani (#1)
Paul (#4) > Bogut (#1)
Pau Gasol (#3) > Kwame Brown (#1)

I had a thread on here and basically since Shaq in 92 the drafts where there was a consensus #1 pick that player was the best player taken in the draft except for Kobe over Iverson, Westbrook over Rose, and Durant over Oden (though Rose and Oden's injuries will always be a whatif and make you wonder as Rose was a league MVP and Oden showed immense potential prior to the injuries).  And even in those years, injuries aside, the player taken #1 was no worse than the 2nd best player in the draft.  In the drafts where there wasn't a consensus #1, the player taken #1 was almost always not even in the top 5 best players taken in the draft. 

Simmons was the consensus #1 player.  Barring injury that means he will almost certainly be no worse than the 2nd best player in the draft and will most likely be the best player taken in the draft.  This makes perfect sense, when all the scouts agree on a player, that player is going to be pretty darn good (I mean Iverson and Rose were league MVP's for crying out loud, they just had a guy that was better than them in their draft). 

What the research also showed was that all #1 picks aren't equal.  I mean everyone knows this, but for every Lebron James there is a Kenyon Martin.  Both consensus #1 picks and both the best player from their draft, but a very significant difference in their overall career trajectory.  So using historical metrics, Simmons, barring injury, will very likely be the best player in his draft, how good he ultimately comes is certainly unknown though.

Your whole premise here is flawed. There is no way that Simmons was a consensus number 1 pick. While some of these may be teams attempting spin, these are pretty mainstream news and sports sites debating their merits as the top pick.  I highly doubt we saw dwayne wade or lebron debates at this kind of level (if at all). Why are we pretending simmons was such a consensus pick? Just to make a point of some sort? I mean the last link is the 76ers team blog where even their fans and writers debated it. That is not what happens when something is "consensus"

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-2016-how-ben-simmons-and-brandon-ingram-compare-head-to-head/
https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/news/brandon-ingram-supplants-ben-simmons-as-no-1-pick-on-draft-express/167477258
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/03/21/nba-draft-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-ncaa-tournament-lsu-duke
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2016/06/23/76ers-are-taking-a-bigger-risk-by-drafting-ben-simmons-over-brandon-ingram/
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2016/6/17/11964420/la-lakers-report-prefer-brandon-ingram-over-ben-simmons
http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/5/19/11712630/roundtable-ben-simmons-brandon-ingram-sixers-draft-bryan-colangelo

[jambr380]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

What are you even talking about? Delusional?? In the record prediction thread before last season, a pretty hefty majority of us were under our actual win total.

You are implying that we, as fans, are considered jokes of the league. I'd venture to guess that every single fan base around the league overrates their individual players to some extent. Celticsblog, like every major sports team blog, brings in a lot of the Cs biggest fans.

It is okay to be hopeful.

[kraidstar]

Simmons is the more valuable player right now. That is almost certain.

But I'd like for someone to name me the last all-time great big man who was as bad a defender as he is.

You'd think the fans of the franchise that won titles with Russell, Cowens, Parrish, McHale, and KG would realize this.

ESPN can run highlight reels of his dunks all day long, but the concerns about Simmons are legit. Soft players tend to stay soft. And soft players don't lead teams to championships.

 

[celticsclay]

Simmons is the more valuable player right now. That is almost certain.

But I'd like for someone to name me the last all-time great big man who was as bad a defender as he is.

You'd think the fans of the franchise that won titles with Russell, Cowens, Parrish, McHale, and KG would realize this.

ESPN can run highlight reels of his dunks all day long, but the concerns about Simmons are legit. Soft players tend to stay soft. And soft players don't lead teams to championships.

Who are the soft players in the league besides kevin love?

[Moranis]

Simmons is the more valuable player right now. That is almost certain.

But I'd like for someone to name me the last all-time great big man who was as bad a defender as he is.

You'd think the fans of the franchise that won titles with Russell, Cowens, Parrish, McHale, and KG would realize this.

ESPN can run highlight reels of his dunks all day long, but the concerns about Simmons are legit. Soft players tend to stay soft. And soft players don't lead teams to championships.

Who are the soft players in the league besides kevin love?

Pau Gasol and Dirk Nowitzki were soft players.  I seem to recall a number of championships from those two guys. 

Of course I have no idea why anyone would call Simmons soft. 

[LarBrd33]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

Yep, I've come a lot around this in discussions among fans. It's true that many see us like that. But then it's not such a bad thing either.

Had Boston instead drafted Jamal Murray, Buddy Hield, Kris Dunn, Brandon Ingram or maybe even Thon Maker, this thread would still exist.  "Anyone else glad we have ____ over Simmons?".   All of them showed flashes in Summer League.  Jaylen Brown wouldn't be on anyone's radar around here had he been selected 8th.   YOu might see his name pop up in reference to "dodging a bullet" and not selecting the "future bust" that shot 30% from the field and 22% from three.   BUt he's wearing green, so we all accept he's a future star.  Myself included.   Jaylen's got a ton of potential.  Can't wait to see him develop. 

[Alleyoopster]

Only watched Simmons in one Summer League game. What caught my attention most was how well he passes and handles the ball for a person his size. My feeling is he's a once in a generation player.

It's possible Jaylen may surpass Simmons in some positive offensive or defensive categories, but Simmons is in another league when looking at the total package.

[dark_lord]

[Evantime34]

Topics like this are why other fanbases and nba fans in general call us delusional. There's a reason Simmons was the #1 pick. True, his attitude and work ethic might not  be great, but at the end of the day, talent wins out. And he's got plenty of it, and plenty of high end potential too.

Yep, I've come a lot around this in discussions among fans. It's true that many see us like that. But then it's not such a bad thing either.

Had Boston instead drafted Jamal Murray, Buddy Hield, Kris Dunn, Brandon Ingram or maybe even Thon Maker, this thread would still exist.  "Anyone else glad we have ____ over Simmons?".   All of them showed flashes in Summer League.  Jaylen Brown wouldn't be on anyone's radar around here had he been selected 8th.   YOu might see his name pop up in reference to "dodging a bullet" and not selecting the "future bust" that shot 30% from the field and 22% from three.   BUt he's wearing green, so we all accept he's a future star. Myself included.   Jaylen's got a ton of potential.  Can't wait to see him develop.

Just as there are a lot of people who are positive about any move the C's make, it seems like there is also a group of people on here who complain about every move Danny makes.

Had we picked #1 no one would have realistically wanted Jaylen over Simmons. At the same time had we gotten Simmons at #1 there absolutely would have been a group of people who trashed Simmons.