The buyout / 15th roster spot thread...

[theswitch]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

[tenn_smoothie]

If you sign Jrue for 25 mil next year and Luke for 3 mil and Tillman for 4 mil...

Trade away Peyton and Oshae for future draft picks, taking no $ back....

let Svi walk, sign Queta, 1st rd pick at 30th spot, and one second round pick.....

you can just get under the 2nd apron next year with 14 on the roster.


I would not be surprised if PP and OB were gone by this November.

On a very practical level, who are you replacing PP's minutes with?

Personally I like Prichard and don’t want to see him traded but I also understand the Celtics needing to lower payroll.
What about Davidson? Does anyone think he would be able to handle the backup position next year?

Wow, no, please. Pritchard constantly makes winning plays and contributes in lots of ways. Our bench is tenuous enough as is, After Mazzulla was finally forced to give Pritchard and Hauser consistent playing time, they have blossomed and made a huge difference for this team.

[Vermont Green]

I like Pritchard, he is a good player.  Not a bad contract.  But if we didn't play so much with an extra guard (1 big), he wouldn't be getting many minutes.  I look at it this way:

Guards:     White (32), Holiday (32), Pritchard (18)             82 min Total (1.7 per 48)
Wings:      Tatum (35), Brown (33), Hauser (18)                 86 min Total (1.8 per 48)
Bigs:         Porzingis (28), Horford (26), Kornet/etc. (18)     72 min Total (1.5 per 48)

What this is saying is we play half the time with 1 big and half the time with 2 bigs and a lot with an extra guard.  You can play with 1 guard and an extra wing.  Most teams play closer to all the time with 2 bigs so the total minutes for bigs would be closer to 84 minutes.  It would/could look something like this for the principal 9 man rotation:

White (32)            Holiday (16)
Brown (34)           Holiday (16)
Tatum (36)           Hauser (20)
Horford (24)         Tillman (16)
Porzingis (30)       Kornet (16)

That ends up being about 1.8 per 48 for the bigs.  Our guards are White and Holiday.  We play fewer guards and more wings and bigs (relatively).  It is still some 1-big play.  Holiday could still start if you are worried about that, it doesn't matter if we start with a 1 big line up.  Maybe next season, Tillman or Kornet is replaced in the rotation with a better player (essentially the replacement for Pritchard).  Again, I like Pritchard but his minutes right now are a product of our guard heavy rotation.  He is getting minutes because he is better than Kornet or Tillman.  If we had a better 3rd big, that might not be the case.

[Vermont Green]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

This is interesting.  Shows are hard it is to judge players just on box scores.

[Roy H.]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

Extrapolating performance based upon per-36 numbers is meaningless, though.  That's particularly true when you're comparing backups to starters.

[Vermont Green]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

Extrapolating performance based upon per-36 numbers is meaningless, though.  That's particularly true when you're comparing backups to starters.

I wouldn't say meaningless.  Extrapolating for a player based on 19 or 22 min is far more relevant than for a player with 5 or 10 min.  I think the underlying point is supported by these per36 stats in this case.  A player's stats on CHA are not going to translate to what the player should be expected to do on the Celtics or another contending team.  That is proving out for Gordon Hayward who has gone from averaging 15 pts in 32 min with CHA to averaging 3.4 pts in 15 min in OKC.  It happens all the time.

This is probably not Hayward's ceiling on OKC.  It probably will get better.  But it is not likely he will produce the same level of box score stats that he did in CHA.  I don't see Hayward having all that much impact in OKC, we'll see.

[theswitch]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

Extrapolating performance based upon per-36 numbers is meaningless, though.  That's particularly true when you're comparing backups to starters.

I wouldn't say meaningless.  Extrapolating for a player based on 19 or 22 min is far more relevant than for a player with 5 or 10 min.  I think the underlying point is supported by these per36 stats in this case.  A player's stats on CHA are not going to translate to what the player should be expected to do on the Celtics or another contending team.  That is proving out for Gordon Hayward who has gone from averaging 15 pts in 32 min with CHA to averaging 3.4 pts in 15 min in OKC.  It happens all the time.

This is probably not Hayward's ceiling on OKC.  It probably will get better.  But it is not likely he will produce the same level of box score stats that he did in CHA.  I don't see Hayward having all that much impact in OKC, we'll see.

Banton started last night, went 5-13 in 29 minutes, and finished with 13 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, a block, and one turnover. He got cooked by Shai and Giddey and they lost, but the point stands. None of these guys are all that good but can get reasonable statlines on the bad teams.

[hpantazo]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

Yes, basically this. Whenever these guys end up on a bad team and get minutes, they put up decent stats. They contribute next to nothing in terms of winning though

[Big333223]

Hayward basically put up 15/5/5 on 50% shooting this year.  He hasn't adjusted to OKC yet, but he's also not a deep bench player.

Sure, but I think guys like Svi or Banton could put up those numbers or better on Charlotte.

Based upon what?

Banton in 19 MPG so far in Portland: 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists on 43% shooting. 21 / 7 /4 per 36
Hayward in 32 MPG in Charlotte: 15 / 5 / 5 on 47% shooting, 16 / 5 / 5 per 36

Both players a fat zero in VORP, negative BPM, terrible WS / 48.

EDIT: Svi in Charlotte just last year in 22 MPG: 11 / 2 / 3 on 44% shooting. 17 / 4 / 4 per 36. Slightly better advanced stats.

Yes, basically this. Whenever these guys end up on a bad team and get minutes, they put up decent stats. They contribute next to nothing in terms of winning though

Hayward's Charlotte numbers are getting the benefit of rounding there, too. He was putting up 14.5/4.6/4.7 in 31.9 mpg, shooting .468/.361 for one of the worst teams in the NBA.

He's played 8 games with OKC so far. In his last 3 games he's scored 0, 2, and 2 points. In those 3 games he's shooting 2-11. I guess that OKC adjustment is going to take a while.

Anyway, he's not a guy I want back on the Celtics. He was overrated even when he was good and despite his reputation for being a guy who makes the right play I don't think he was happy living in the shadow of Tatum & Brown.

[hpantazo]

Banton with 30 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists last night. Continuing to show that putting up good stats on a team like Charlotte means nothing in terms of how good an NBA player someone is.

Hayward last night for OKC had 3 points, 2 rebounds and 4 assists

[ozgod]

Banton with 30 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists last night. Continuing to show that putting up good stats on a team like Charlotte means nothing in terms of how good an NBA player someone is.

Hayward last night for OKC had 3 points, 2 rebounds and 4 assists

A lot of it is also to do with how the team intends to use the player. Clearly Banton has been given the green light to shoot. His FGA in his last 3 games are 20 (2nd most on team), 13 (2nd most) and 27 (most). You don't put up 27 FGA on a new team unless you've been given the green light to let it fly. Gordon, with teammates like SGA, Holmgren, Giddey, Dort and Jalen Williams, probably doesn't have that luxury.

[Who]

So Banton is shooting 41% FG% 32.5% 3PT% 66% FT% for a TS% of 50.1% about 8 full percentage points below league average. That is terrible.

He is only putting up points because they are allowing him to jack away despite putting up horrific shooting numbers.

[Big333223]

Banton with 30 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists last night. Continuing to show that putting up good stats on a team like Charlotte means nothing in terms of how good an NBA player someone is.

Hayward last night for OKC had 3 points, 2 rebounds and 4 assists

A lot of it is also to do with how the team intends to use the player. Clearly Banton has been given the green light to shoot. His FGA in his last 3 games are 20 (2nd most on team), 13 (2nd most) and 27 (most). You don't put up 27 FGA on a new team unless you've been given the green light to let it fly. Gordon, with teammates like SGA, Holmgren, Giddey, Dort and Jalen Williams, probably doesn't have that luxury.

This is very true. And I think Hayward has been overrated his entire career because he has pretty much always had teams that intentionally put the ball in his hands. Even in Boston, when he was the 4th best player on the team, there was still a concerted effort to have the ball in his hands because he has the reputation as the guy who makes the right play.

[goCeltics]

It seems like that will give Neemias Queta the spot, makes sense

[ozgod]

It seems like that will give Neemias Queta the spot, makes sense

I always felt Queta was going to get the spot. For them to get someone from outside it would have to be someone a lot better than Queta to justify the refamiliarization with the team and the impact on chemistry, and end of day we're talking about a No15 spot. This person isn't going to be added to the rotation or play meaningful minutes, it's really a "give someone experience for the future by being around a playoff team" opportunity and Queta is perfect for that.