CelticsStrong

Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: wiley on November 12, 2017, 08:33:41 PM

Title: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: wiley on November 12, 2017, 08:33:41 PM
The Celtics win over the Raptors was an example of how nice the sport
of basketball can be when the referees don't muck it up with non-stop made up calls.

The last game, against Charlotte, was one of the worst reffed games I ever saw.  Guy falls on the floor = stop the game...over and over and over.

The NBA should use these two games in their training for refs.  Charlotte game an example what not to do.  Toronto game an example of how to call a good game.

The refs become the story in far too many games.  So congrats to the refs of this Toronto Boston game for mostly staying out of the way and letting the players get into rhythm so the game can flow.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Dannys Chipotle Guy on November 12, 2017, 08:40:21 PM
Are you kidding?

Thought this game was officiated awfully.

Largely in our favor too.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 08:44:45 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 12, 2017, 08:50:12 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

It did. But it was also the correct call. Tatum made contact.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 08:51:21 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Fafnir on November 12, 2017, 08:55:56 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

It did. But it was also the correct call. Tatum made contact.
NBA is going to have to come up with something else as right now the defenders are going to be incentivized to play defense with their head as that call consistently gets made on the man with the ball.

Not exactly what you have in mind when trying to protect players heads.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: footey on November 12, 2017, 08:57:57 PM
I thought the officiating was quite good. They didn’t fall for a lot of the flopping.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: fairweatherfan on November 12, 2017, 09:22:57 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

It did. But it was also the correct call. Tatum made contact.
NBA is going to have to come up with something else as right now the defenders are going to be incentivized to play defense with their head as that call consistently gets made on the man with the ball.

Not exactly what you have in mind when trying to protect players heads.

It's a tough situation, but I don't think there's THAT much incentive to get hit in the head with an elbow.  Faking it, like Marcus did a lot last year, yeah, but not actually getting clocked.

Problem is going the opposite way and entitling the man with the ball to swing his elbows through "his space" would encourage a lot of headhunting of aggressive defenders. Doesn't seem like a viable option either.

Agree that distaste for the call should be directed at the rulebook and not the ref.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 09:57:07 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 10:05:11 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop. 
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: alley oop on November 12, 2017, 10:06:10 PM


Jayson Tatum Offensive Foul On Fred VanFleet - Hard Elbow Or Flop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqe0UWpoiYo
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: gouki88 on November 12, 2017, 10:08:28 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.
I agree. There's a big area between Karl Malone throwing elbows into everyone and what we have today.

Agree with the OP though. They replaced that young guy with the slicked hair from the last few games (among one or two) with a woman (not sure her name), but I thought she was really good. Especially when she told Lowry to stop acting like a baby
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 10:16:06 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Maybe my green colored googles are just seeing this differently...
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 10:20:35 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqe0UWpoiYo

There are 4-5 seconds between the rebound and the foul.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Fafnir on November 12, 2017, 10:22:56 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

It did. But it was also the correct call. Tatum made contact.
NBA is going to have to come up with something else as right now the defenders are going to be incentivized to play defense with their head as that call consistently gets made on the man with the ball.

Not exactly what you have in mind when trying to protect players heads.

It's a tough situation, but I don't think there's THAT much incentive to get hit in the head with an elbow.  Faking it, like Marcus did a lot last year, yeah, but not actually getting clocked.

Problem is going the opposite way and entitling the man with the ball to swing his elbows through "his space" would encourage a lot of headhunting of aggressive defenders. Doesn't seem like a viable option either.

Agree that distaste for the call should be directed at the rulebook and not the ref.
Similar to the rip through "move" in my book.

If you're not allowed to bring the ball across your body as a ball handler its just a weird stance to take. Just like it was weird when they allowed offensive players to literally hook defenders arms that were in legal guarding position and then just flop and flail for a foul call.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 10:23:32 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there... and correct me if I'm wrong here but isn't that Raptors player trying to intentionally foul Tatum there by putting two hands on him?
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 10:27:48 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there...

No, you don’t get to move into your dribble if doing so drives your elbow into the defender’s face. Especially not when you had four seconds to move prior.

I was worried they were going to call a flagrant with the way elbows to the head are called now.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 10:32:49 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there...

No, you don’t get to move into your dribble if doing so drives your elbow into the defender’s face. Especially not when you had four seconds to move prior.

I was worried they were going to call a flagrant with the way elbows to the head are called now.

What about the fact that The Raptors player grabbed Tatum with two hands attempting to foul him?
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Smitty77 on November 12, 2017, 10:44:10 PM
Let's talk about the STELLAR defense played by Jaylen vs. Rozier after that call!!!!:-)))

We have had two stellar defensive jobs to save games in the last two games.  One by one of our new vets in Morris on Kemba and one by our newly turned 21 year old Jaylen!!!

So proud of this team!!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 10:44:18 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there...

No, you don’t get to move into your dribble if doing so drives your elbow into the defender’s face. Especially not when you had four seconds to move prior.

I was worried they were going to call a flagrant with the way elbows to the head are called now.

What about the fact that The Raptors player grabbed Tatum with two hands attempting to foul him?

I believe you’re allowed to touch an opponent so long as you don’t impede him, although I could be wrong.  I don’t think Toronto was attempting to foul yet.

Either way, though, that was a split second play, and the elbow was more egregious than the touch.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: Roy H. on November 12, 2017, 10:46:23 PM
Let's talk about the STELLAR defense played by Jaylen vs. Rozier after that call!!!!:-)))

We have had two stellar defensive jobs to save games in the last two games.  One by one of our new vets in Morris on Kemba and one by our newly turned 21 year old Jaylen!!!

So proud of this team!!!

Smitty77

I thought it was good defense, too. After the game, though, Jaylen was hard on himself, basically calling it a late contest and a lucky miss.

Quote
"He shook him, he was wide open, vaulted up, and I'll take that shot 999 times out of 1,000," Raptors coach Dwane Casey said about DeRozan's effort.

Brown, who was guarding DeRozan on the final possession, was a bit surprised himself that the shot didn't go down.

"That's a shot that DeMar DeRozan probably hits nine times out of ten," Brown said. "I got a late contest, but he missed this one so we'll take the win."
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on November 12, 2017, 10:58:48 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there...

No, you don’t get to move into your dribble if doing so drives your elbow into the defender’s face. Especially not when you had four seconds to move prior.

I was worried they were going to call a flagrant with the way elbows to the head are called now.

I'm surprised Tatum stood there like a statue for a few seconds. I think the elbow was unintentional, but for the life of me I can't figure out why he froze like a deer in headlights. He should've just passed or dribbled away and made the Raptors foul him.
Title: Re: best job by refs I've seen in a long time
Post by: liam on November 12, 2017, 11:12:51 PM
That call against Tatum at the end of the game nearly cost the Celtics the game.

I don’t understand the issue with that call. There was definitely contact with the elbow. The fall was exaggerated, but Tatum hit him.

I think that the man rebounding the ball is entitled to some space to clear the ball.

He had already secured the ball — for several seconds — before swinging his elbows.

(https://nbcprobasketballtalk-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1000/s/nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/tatum.gif?w=480&h=264)

There’s clear contact, followed by a flop.

Isn't the offensive play still entitled to space?

Space from what? Tatum was by himself with nobody around him for multiple seconds.

To move into his dribble... It looks like Tatum is moving before #23 comes flopping in there...

No, you don’t get to move into your dribble if doing so drives your elbow into the defender’s face. Especially not when you had four seconds to move prior.

I was worried they were going to call a flagrant with the way elbows to the head are called now.

What about the fact that The Raptors player grabbed Tatum with two hands attempting to foul him?

I believe you’re allowed to touch an opponent so long as you don’t impede him, although I could be wrong.  I don’t think Toronto was attempting to foul yet.

Either way, though, that was a split second play, and the elbow was more egregious than the touch.

OK, point well taken...