Author Topic: Coronavirus Concerns  (Read 662792 times)

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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6510 on: December 02, 2021, 05:04:04 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I don't think people realize how much of an issue COVID still is, how transmissible this virus is, how many patients are still going to the hospital.  I had to take my 85 year old father to a small local hospital in NH (well, actually an ambulance took him) and they had no beds.  He was treated in the ER but the doctors said that normally they would keep him overnight for additional observations and tests due to his condition but there were no beds available and there were 15 other patients on a waiting list for a bed.  Every ER room was taken, there were people in the lobby, in the hall, everywhere.  Not every patient was COVID related of course.  All I could do was take him back home after they were able to stabilize him.  He will probably be fine.

We are not out of the woods on this yet.  What is being asked of people is pretty easy to do, get vaccinated and where appropriate, wear a mask.  It is not like you have to lock yourself in your house anymore.  The main reason we don't have to lock ourselves in our houses is the vaccine.  The impact of not getting vaccinated or wearing masks is that people like my father are not able to have access to the health care they need.  Simple connection; choose to not get vaccinated, choose to be cavalier about masks, vulnerable people are impacted.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 05:47:58 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6511 on: December 04, 2021, 12:40:29 AM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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I’m impatient for omicron data but some more time needs to pass.

One important thing we’re learning from South Africa is that the protection from reinfection in people with ‘natural immunity’ is not great. Not yet sufficient data about vaccine evasion.

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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6512 on: December 04, 2021, 09:15:52 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I’m impatient for omicron data but some more time needs to pass.

One important thing we’re learning from South Africa is that the protection from reinfection in people with ‘natural immunity’ is not great. Not yet sufficient data about vaccine evasion.
Me too.  It is a mad race by the the vaccine manufacturers and research labs.  They need a couple of weeks before they can determine whether the antibodies generated by vaccines are effective at neutralizing omicron.  These are in-vitro studies (i.e., in test tubes in the lab) but are predictive of what happens in-vivo.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6513 on: December 04, 2021, 01:47:35 PM »

Offline Redz

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I got it about 4 weeks ago.  I'm vaccinated with J & J.  No booster.  I have to wear a mask at work, and I wear one in crowded places (or ones that require it). 

I had about 3 days of what I would traditionally call a chest cold.  Under normal circumstances I would have gone back to work after a few days, but I'd started to lose my taste, so I got tested.  I ended up out of work for 3 weeks.  Was pretty run down and achey, also had a lot of "mush brain" (just hard to concentrate on stuff).  I still have a little congestion, but I'm otherwise fine.

Just weird to have this thing that I've spent so much energy and anxiety over trying to avoid.  Thankfully, no one who I was in contact with got it.  There's definitely a weird stigma to having too.

I live on Cape Cod, and the cases are running rampant.  It seems like all of the sudden many more people who I know are getting it.  I think it's just never going to end in America.  Not enough people give a crap and people who have been vaccinated think they are bullet proof.
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6514 on: December 04, 2021, 02:13:36 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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A whole bunch of kin folk  in PA are now sick with covid , they were all vaccinated, and all have very mild cases and are self quarantined . They avoided it for nearly two years , but they say it’s every where now up there. 

Nobody wears a mask around me  , a few places still signs advising to wear a mask before entering. 

I got a suspicion I already have been exposed in the past weeks since I had the booster,  a few days of runny nose and a slight headache out of no where made me think this .  Right after the booster , people all but stopped any type of preventative actions.  my wife demanded we go to the movies and fav restaurants , we ve stayed away for close to two years.  So , I figure we both got it .    She could n’t eat my cooking but so long  :)

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6515 on: December 04, 2021, 02:18:05 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Glad you’re on the mend, Redz.

I somehow haven’t gotten it yet.  Most of my wife’s supervisees caught it, and both of my kids have had “close contacts” at school.  Luckily no positive tests yet.

My county is definitely a hot spot right now, and it’s amazing how many businesses have masks as optional.


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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6516 on: December 04, 2021, 02:34:11 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Scary to hear people are becoming resigned to getting it and in turn lowering their mitigation efforts.  I’m pretty terrified of getting it. 

My wife had to go to the market and a store yesterday.  She said most people weren’t masked.  The people working in stores are generally not masked.  I don’t get it really.  Hasn’t it been economically brutal for most retail stores?  And now as Covid surges they don’t mask. 

Redz - glad you made it through. Good luck on the continuing recovery.  And good luck to Shaq’s family. 

My realistic hope isn’t that it goes away but that we improve treatment - it means hanging in there for a while longer and maybe convincing some non-vaxers to get vaccinated.


Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6517 on: December 04, 2021, 03:06:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6518 on: December 04, 2021, 03:46:08 PM »

Offline Celtics2021

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.

I'd disagree that it's simply theater for supermarket masking if all the other places are open.  I go to the supermarket, but I order takeout from restaurants now that it's too cold to sit outside.  Similarly, I sometimes have to take public transportation.  You can choose to go to a higher-risk activity where you don't have a mask, but it's not theater for someone like me who's taking lower-risk activities/has to use public transport at times to require masks there, because it means I'm more protected from people who do go to restaurants or Celtics games or movie theaters and are thus more likely to be exposed and thus spreading the disease a few days later.

And that's not to judge anyone who's choosing to do that at this point -- it's 21 months, and I get wanting/needing to do these events for social and mental health.  I'm in a different position, however, and I don't want to get infected at the supermarket because of your night out, and I don't think wearing a mask is a big ask.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6519 on: December 04, 2021, 03:48:02 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.

I agree with some of what you say but not all.  First, I'm not a fan of vax mandates though I could be persuaded if things get worse.  Not a fan of mask mandates though I think there is merit to places requiring patrons to mask up.  Restaurant food servers should mask -- I think that would be obvious.  Thursday night, my wife waited 30 minutes (she said "never again") at a restaurant for takeout amidst a group of a dozen other patrons waiting for their late orders to arrive -- she was the only one masked.  Does it matter? IMO, yes.   I don't understand the concept that if it's impractical to wear masks in one venue that it becomes "theater" to wear them in other venues.  Like you, I don't want shut-downs, and it seems to me that mitigation even if imperfect and not pervasive, has a role in preventing shut-downs.

I assure you my wife doesn't pretend to feel better when she is among masked people at the supermarket and anxious when they aren't.  People are handling food and other goods all day long, and she often waits 10-15 minutes in line in the air space of others (often no more than a foot away), and yes, I think Covid has been transmitted from customers to other customers in supermarkets.   

I don't really think I get the cancer screening argument as it relates to masks.  If the impact of Covid has had a causal effect on reduction in cancer screening (as it has on necessary surgeries or ER intake), then I'd say that's a pretty bad thing.  My mind doesn't go to 'OK so don't wear masks in public places'.  It goes to how can we assure that more people are proactively screened. 

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6520 on: December 04, 2021, 03:53:03 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.
Very good post.  To add to it, Covid presents little risk to those under 50 and healthy.  Everyone should take the precautions that they feel are necessary for their own situation. 
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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6521 on: December 04, 2021, 03:57:21 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.

I agree with some of what you say but not all.  First, I'm not a fan of vax mandates though I could be persuaded if things get worse.  Not a fan of mask mandates though I think there is merit to places requiring patrons to mask up.  Restaurant food servers should mask -- I think that would be obvious.  Thursday night, my wife waited 30 minutes (she said "never again") at a restaurant for takeout amidst a group of a dozen other patrons waiting for their late orders to arrive -- she was the only one masked.  Does it matter? IMO, yes.   I don't understand the concept that if it's impractical to wear masks in one venue that it becomes "theater" to wear them in other venues.  Like you, I don't want shut-downs, and it seems to me that mitigation even if imperfect and not pervasive, has a role in preventing shut-downs.

I assure you my wife doesn't pretend to feel better when she is among masked people at the supermarket and anxious when they aren't.  People are handling food and other goods all day long, and she often waits 10-15 minutes in line in the air space of others (often no more than a foot away), and yes, I think Covid has been transmitted from customers to other customers in supermarkets.   

I don't really think I get the cancer screening argument as it relates to masks.  If the impact of Covid has had a causal effect on reduction in cancer screening (as it has on necessary surgeries or ER intake), then I'd say that's a pretty bad thing.  My mind doesn't go to 'OK so don't wear masks in public places'.  It goes to how can we assure that more people are proactively screened.

I am not really arguing against wearing masks in public spaces. And I do think there is no downside to wearing them in a supermarket for example. What I am saying is that without a complete shutdown those mask mandates in a supermarket become kind of pointless. There are still tons of people going out to restaurants and bars where the mask rules are a joke so community spread will continue forever. To connect the dots better here, the only alternative to stopping the community spread completely would be for a complete shut down of everything. Bars, restaurants, supermarkets etc. However, the cost of doing that is greater than the cost of Covid on our community. That is why I think the people implying that wearing masks in places somehow is relevant in any way to the outcome of this and is theater.

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6522 on: December 04, 2021, 04:12:59 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.
Very good post.  To add to it, Covid presents little risk to those under 50 and healthy.  Everyone should take the precautions that they feel are necessary for their own situation.

The “and healthy” part is relative.  Three people that I knew died from Covid in the past few months, all below 50.  All were overweight, but none seemed to be on death’s door.

Doing what is best for one’s own situation is part of the problem, isn’t it?  Limiting spread helps all.


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Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6523 on: December 04, 2021, 04:17:09 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.
Very good post.  To add to it, Covid presents little risk to those under 50 and healthy.  Everyone should take the precautions that they feel are necessary for their own situation.

The “and healthy” part is relative.  Three people that I knew died from Covid in the past few months, all below 50.  All were overweight, but none seemed to be on death’s door.

Doing what is best for one’s own situation is part of the problem, isn’t it?  Limiting spread helps all.

Well said Roy

Re: Coronavirus Concerns
« Reply #6524 on: December 04, 2021, 04:41:22 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I'll preface this by saying I am pretty liberal, so have become a bit surprised by how much my views have evolved over the last 20 months as I have become a lot more conflicted about some of this stuff. We can harp on the masks, and I am not opposed to generally wearing one, but if we are allowing people to go to restaurants and bars the masks are completely pointless in those places. You wear one for about 10 minutes before you go to your seat or table and then have it off for an hour and a half. How does that first 5 minutes of masks and wearing it in the bathroom stop the spread. So if we really believe we need to have mask mandates every where we are saying we need to shut down all in restaurant dining, bars, indoor sporting events with beverages, comedy shows with beverages, theater etc. Do we think we should do that again? There were something like 22 million cancer screenings missed in a 6 month period in 2021. How many of those people are going to die or have severally negatively impacted long term health outcomes (worse than long term covid outcomes). This is to say nothing of the never before seen levels of domestic abuse, child abuse, overdoses, suicides etc. So what is the answer to all of this? We can pretend to feel better if we see people in the supermarket wearing masks, but is kind of just theater if all these other places are open. We also have no guarantee if we shut down again that it would stop a mutation spreading from another country and coming here. So what is the actual solution and how selfish are people really being? I will say I worked for a healthcare company the last 6 years, have my MPH and know more than I wish to know about this pandemic (I actually quit my job and became a consultant cause I couldn't deal with covid every day for 1.5 years). This is not really as simple as people not being selfish and wearing masks all the time. You have to ask what we can actually do and what the results would actually be. It is not liberal or woke to say, but I think more people have probably already or will die from missed cancer screenings than have died from COVID.
Very good post.  To add to it, Covid presents little risk to those under 50 and healthy.  Everyone should take the precautions that they feel are necessary for their own situation.

The “and healthy” part is relative.  Three people that I knew died from Covid in the past few months, all below 50.  All were overweight, but none seemed to be on death’s door.

Doing what is best for one’s own situation is part of the problem, isn’t it?  Limiting spread helps all.

Roy you are not really addressing the main point of my argument here. What do we do? Full lockdowns?