Author Topic: KG  (Read 5227 times)

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KG
« on: November 14, 2008, 11:55:17 PM »

Offline billysan

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JVG made a decent point during the game that KG is now a post up jump shooter and doesn't need to be doubled, particularly if that help is coming from Ray or Eddie.  So far this year, he's right on

This quote from the front page by Green17. The comment here was made by JVG during our loss to the Nuggetts. This is really nothing new, KG has been and prefers to be, a perimeter player offensively. His being a post-up jump shooter is not a weakness as long as he takes a big away from the basket with him and then hits his shots. This is something our coaching staff knows and hasnt been foolish enough to attempt to change.

KG still gets down and dirty on defense. He rebounds hard and plays team ball all the way around. This is where we really need him most anyway IMO. JVG is trying to lay a load of fertilizer on KG as if the recent loss was his fault for not banging inside enough.

When we lost to the Nuggets, the reasons were clear. Our bench again underperformed. Rondo had an off night, it happens. We got out rebounded and outshot. It's only one loss and not the end of the world.

It sure as heck isnt all on KG. 8)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:03:08 AM by billysan »
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Re: KG
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 12:00:05 AM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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JVG made a decent point during the game that KG is now a post up jump shooter and doesn't need to be doubled, particularly if that help is coming from Ray or Eddie.  So far this year, he's right on

This quote from the front page by Jeff
. The comment here was made by JVG during our loss to the Nuggetts. This is really nothing new, KG has been and prefers to be, a perimeter player offensively. His being a post-up jump shooter is not a weakness as long as he takes a big away from the basket with him and then hits his shots. This is something our coaching staff knows and hasnt been foolish enough to attempt to change.

KG still gets down and dirty on defense. He rebounds hard and plays team ball all the way around. This is where we really need him most anyway IMO. JVG is trying to lay a load of fertilizer on KG as if the recent loss was his fault for not banging inside enough.

When we lost to the Nuggets, the reasons were clear. Our bench again underperformed. Rondo had an off night, it happens. We got out rebounded and outshot. It's only one loss and not the end of the world.

It sure as heck isnt all on KG. 8)

Hey now, let's give Green17 his due love!   :D

(He's the one who wrote tonight's recap.)

-sw


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Re: KG
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2008, 12:05:06 AM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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You dont want KG banging on offense. He needs to facilate the offense. Inside out game with Ray or Paul on the wing. Maybe some pic and pop. I do like JVG doing games. Besides Gorman he is my favorite.

Re: KG
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2008, 12:07:55 AM »

Offline billysan

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JVG made a decent point during the game that KG is now a post up jump shooter and doesn't need to be doubled, particularly if that help is coming from Ray or Eddie.  So far this year, he's right on

This quote from the front page by Jeff
. The comment here was made by JVG during our loss to the Nuggetts. This is really nothing new, KG has been and prefers to be, a perimeter player offensively. His being a post-up jump shooter is not a weakness as long as he takes a big away from the basket with him and then hits his shots. This is something our coaching staff knows and hasnt been foolish enough to attempt to change.

KG still gets down and dirty on defense. He rebounds hard and plays team ball all the way around. This is where we really need him most anyway IMO. JVG is trying to lay a load of fertilizer on KG as if the recent loss was his fault for not banging inside enough.

When we lost to the Nuggets, the reasons were clear. Our bench again underperformed. Rondo had an off night, it happens. We got out rebounded and outshot. It's only one loss and not the end of the world.

It sure as heck isnt all on KG. 8)

Hey now, let's give Green17 his due love!   :D

(He's the one who wrote tonight's recap.)

-sw
Thanx for the catch Steve, I fixed it in the OP. I was really kinda steamed while I was writing this thing, JVG says some things just to P.O. people sometimes I think. I know I shouldnt expect anything more from him.

Kinda unrealistic of me, like expecting Charles Barkley to speak sensibly isnt it? 8)
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: KG
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2008, 12:51:43 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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JVG made a decent point during the game that KG is now a post up jump shooter and doesn't need to be doubled, particularly if that help is coming from Ray or Eddie.  So far this year, he's right on

This quote from the front page by Green17. The comment here was made by JVG during our loss to the Nuggetts. This is really nothing new, KG has been and prefers to be, a perimeter player offensively. His being a post-up jump shooter is not a weakness as long as he takes a big away from the basket with him and then hits his shots. This is something our coaching staff knows and hasnt been foolish enough to attempt to change.

KG still gets down and dirty on defense. He rebounds hard and plays team ball all the way around. This is where we really need him most anyway IMO. JVG is trying to lay a load of fertilizer on KG as if the recent loss was his fault for not banging inside enough.

When we lost to the Nuggets, the reasons were clear. Our bench again underperformed. Rondo had an off night, it happens. We got out rebounded and outshot. It's only one loss and not the end of the world.

It sure as heck isnt all on KG. 8)

The Hawks had Joe Johnson defending KG on many possessions. JOE JOHNSON!

KG started last season going towards the hoop quite a bit when he received the ball in the post, but far less so as the season went on. This season, it has been pretty much exclusive fadeaways from the post. In his defense, he has tried to go to the hoop numerous times, but traveled getting his move started. Hopefully he can adjust.

Re: KG
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2008, 01:31:14 AM »

Offline cordobes

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Garnett shot selection, % of jump-shots:

06/07 - 77%
07/08 - 73%
08/09 - 79%

Garnett was never a low post player. I doubt that these differences, not even 1 shot per game, are detectable by naked eye. JVG suggestion is bizarre, if teams don't double Garnett he'll score at a very high rate. They generally double him off Rondo, so it's not a big deal. Anyway, this point is moot: without Posey, and with Rondo, Tony Allen, Perkins and Powe getting most of his minutes, Garnett has to play more time far away from the paint. Teams already put us in trouble by crowding the lane, add KG and his defender to the crowd and the court would be really small for us on the offensive end.

Re: KG
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 04:13:08 AM »

Offline kw10

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The Hawks had Joe Johnson defending KG on many possessions. JOE JOHNSON!


JJ can guard 4 positions, and I don't think it's such a biggie, when you end up on the court, you don't specifically go...JJ is a guard, he shouldn't be in the post and all that.

But yes, KG should spend a little more time in the post, but I very much agree with Fatjohn
You dont want KG banging on offense. He needs to facilate the offense. Inside out game with Ray or Paul on the wing. Maybe some pic and pop. I do like JVG doing games. Besides Gorman he is my favorite.

And JVG is my favourite broadcaster  ;D I wish I can be like him.
Anything is possible!!!

Re: KG
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2008, 05:05:30 PM »

Offline billysan

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Garnett shot selection, % of jump-shots:

06/07 - 77%
07/08 - 73%
08/09 - 79%

Garnett was never a low post player. I doubt that these differences, not even 1 shot per game, are detectable by naked eye. JVG suggestion is bizarre, if teams don't double Garnett he'll score at a very high rate. They generally double him off Rondo, so it's not a big deal. Anyway, this point is moot: without Posey, and with Rondo, Tony Allen, Perkins and Powe getting most of his minutes, Garnett has to play more time far away from the paint. Teams already put us in trouble by crowding the lane, add KG and his defender to the crowd and the court would be really small for us on the offensive end.
We do tend to get into trouble when we become an exclusively jump shooting team. The reason for opening up the floor is so guys like Pierce, Ray, Rondo and Tony Allen can drive inside to create better opportunities offensively. When KG takes his man out of the paint and any wing or PG is used to double him, someone better be cutting toward the hoop.

I miss Posey as much as anyone, but I dont see how he is relevant to KG's game in regard to shooting post up jumpers instead of playing the low block on offense. Lining the perimeter with Posey, Ray, Paul and so forth doesnt make KG anymore effective offensively.

I think JVG was tryin to make some kinda half baked remark saying we have no low post game because KG doesnt play down there and he prefers to take low percentage shots on the perimeter. 8)
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: KG
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2008, 05:22:49 PM »

Offline housecall

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Garnett shot selection, % of jump-shots:

06/07 - 77%
07/08 - 73%
08/09 - 79%

Garnett was never a low post player. I doubt that these differences, not even 1 shot per game, are detectable by naked eye. JVG suggestion is bizarre, if teams don't double Garnett he'll score at a very high rate. They generally double him off Rondo, so it's not a big deal. Anyway, this point is moot: without Posey, and with Rondo, Tony Allen, Perkins and Powe getting most of his minutes, Garnett has to play more time far away from the paint. Teams already put us in trouble by crowding the lane, add KG and his defender to the crowd and the court would be really small for us on the offensive end.
We do tend to get into trouble when we become an exclusively jump shooting team. The reason for opening up the floor is so guys like Pierce, Ray, Rondo and Tony Allen can drive inside to create better opportunities offensively. When KG takes his man out of the paint and any wing or PG is used to double him, someone better be cutting toward the hoop.

I miss Posey as much as anyone, but I dont see how he is relevant to KG's game in regard to shooting post up jumpers instead of playing the low block on offense. Lining the perimeter with Posey, Ray, Paul and so forth doesnt make KG anymore effective offensively.

I think JVG was tryin to make some kinda half baked remark saying we have no low post game because KG doesnt play down there and he prefers to take low percentage shots on the perimeter. 8)
If you think back during the finals JVG made almost the same comments about KG.Sometimes i think he doesn't really care much for KG's game or the Celtics period.If he doesn't its his own opinion or feelings but we got the message,dont keep rehashing it JVG,move on.I remember him and Jackson going back and forth about KG.I know it makes great TV sports drama but he is carrying it into ovetime.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 05:29:15 PM by housecall »

Re: KG
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2008, 05:35:31 PM »

Offline billysan

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If you think back during the finals JVG made almost the same comments about KG.Sometimes i think he doesn't really care much for KG's game or the Celtics period.If he doesn't its his own opinion or feelings but we got the message,dont keep rehashing it JVG,move on.I remember him and Jackson going back and forth about KG.I know it makes great TV sports drama but he is carrying it into ovetime.
This is definitely true, but I also see it as his feeble attempt to analyze a game where he doesnt like a player and cant accurately describe why the team is losing. He wants to blame the Celtics problems at any given time on KG even if there is no problem and it has nothing to do with KG.

The Celtics lost against the Denver Nuggets and he wants KG to play a different game than the one that has made him a perrenial All Star and helped us win an NBA title last year. It's just lame on his part and sounds dumb like Charles Barkley quotes, but without the goofy humor. 8)
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: KG
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 05:39:02 PM »

Offline housecall

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If you think back during the finals JVG made almost the same comments about KG.Sometimes i think he doesn't really care much for KG's game or the Celtics period.If he doesn't its his own opinion or feelings but we got the message,dont keep rehashing it JVG,move on.I remember him and Jackson going back and forth about KG.I know it makes great TV sports drama but he is carrying it into ovetime.
This is definitely true, but I also see it as his feeble attempt to analyze a game where he doesnt like a player and cant accurately describe why the team is losing. He wants to blame the Celtics problems at any given time on KG even if there is no problem and it has nothing to do with KG.

The Celtics lost against the Denver Nuggets and he wants KG to play a different game than the one that has made him a perrenial All Star and helped us win an NBA title last year. It's just lame on his part and sounds dumb like Charles Barkley quotes, but without the goofy humor. 8)
I take it that you dont care for Barkley either.Those 2 guys are my least favorite on TV today.

Re: KG
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 05:51:16 PM »

Offline Toine43

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To someone who doesn't watch him play every night, KG's offensive play can be infuriating. When he makes an effort to score in the paint, it seems like those baby hooks fall for him 75-90% of the time (just a guess). Yet, most of the time, he doesn't go inside. But as we on CelticsBlog know, this is who KG is, and who he'll always be.

I'll admit that KG's offensive play sometimes makes me momentarily mad. You know, when he's a foot away from the hoop and he looks as if he could easily slam the ball home, and then he misses a layup off the back board. Or, when he's guarded by a much smaller man and he looks as if he could easily back him down into the paint for a jump hook, but instead he shoots a fade away. Then, as I'm sure all of you have, I've reminded myself that I can't get mad at KG for these plays, because they're not going to go away.

The one thing I don't get, though, is what KG's defense has to do with shooting jumpers. People often use his effort on defense as an excuse for why he plays the way he does on offense. Does backing a guy down and shooting a jump hook take that much more energy than a shimmy shake and a fade away?

That all being said, I'm fine with the way KG plays, as it clearly works.



On a separate note, I say lay off of Van Gundy. He may be wrong on this particular point, however he definitely isn't a Celitc hater or a KG hater. Last year in the finals him and Jackson were ALL OVER the Lakers, and very pro-Celtics. They were constantly pointing out the big difference between the two teams: Effort and Defense. Van Gundy and Jackson are a refreshing contrast to the local broadcast team. After watching them throughout last year's playoff and into this season, I don't think that JVG says things just to say them. He's funny, but that doesn't mean he has no substance.


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Re: KG
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 06:26:17 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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JVG and Jackson are excellent analysts, and they were spot on last night about our bench - not as talented, and not deep enough.

KG's softness - illustrated for me by that one fourth quarter snippet when he had an unmolested 15-foot route to the hole for the flush, settled for a jumper and missed it - is a legitimate criticism.
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Re: KG
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 07:35:57 PM »

Offline NoraG1

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How many championships has JVG won? I know KG has one.

Re: KG
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 07:50:28 PM »

Offline Redz

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I just don't see the offense flowing through KG nearly as much as it did last year.  His assists are down a bit and his FG% is down a bunch. 
Yup