Author Topic: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality  (Read 29853 times)

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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #150 on: March 09, 2018, 01:10:48 AM »

Offline JSD

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.

I agree. As a white person, I don't have any guilt for slavery. Slave ownership is horrific, and I like to think that I'd do whatever I could to stop it. I also don't get offended when people tell me that I'm privileged for being white. I know this. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work hard- I do. If anything, it makes me feel grateful, and want to help people that could use help. I see no problem with more diversity for tertiary roles, and I'm not worried about a decline in talent. I don't believe that there should be a drop off between the best white actor and the best black actor. This is the implied fear when trying to prevent Hollywood from going all SJW Oprah.

To be blunt, white privilege is a complete myth in today's society.  It's a Leftist term used to silence white people that don't agree with false narratives.  It has been debunked numerous times by people much smarter than us.
There is also a ton of peer reviewed stuff that got people doctorates that show white priviledge exists. So, no, white priviledge has not been debunked and being a white in a most minority world most of my life, I would tend to agree with that.

If you are accusing, or making assumptions about someone, based on the color of their skin, that's called "Racism". The concept of white privilege is not only wrong, but fundamentally racist.
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #151 on: March 09, 2018, 01:12:42 AM »

Online Roy H.

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.


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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #152 on: March 09, 2018, 01:26:02 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.

Yeah, try telling all the white, middle-aged men I work with that can't do better than a $10/hr temp job  with no benefits for a company that's closing it's doors in 10 months.

I bet they're wondering where the heck their white privilege is.  And try telling that to these adults children.  I can't even comprehend raising a child on that kind of wage and I make more than twice that, and wouldn't feel comfortable trying to raise a child.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #153 on: March 09, 2018, 01:39:43 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.
So you don't think its possible for a movie to concentratre on being the best movie it can be while also delivering a social message or political view?

I do and I think Black Panther is proof of that. I haven't seen a Wrinkle in Time but tend to hate Oprah Winfrey stuff because she goes way too overboard in dramaticizing the plight of black people to the detriment of the movie.

For instance, I think The Help was am immensely important and great film. They did it right with great actors and actresses without all the pomp and circumstance that usually happens with an Oprah film.

Movies can do both, but there are creative choices made that prioritize one over the other. Was Black Panther’s focus making a great superhero movie, or pushing social justice. It’s obviously the former.

A Wrinkle In Time is what happens when you give $100 million to somebody who is pushing her own agenda, rather than making a great movie.
And again, I come down to just do it better. You can make a great film while pushing a social agenda. You can also fail at it. I just don't think its exclusive if you're going to push a political agenda film that its doomed to fail. You can do both.

Black Panther is proof of this.
So is Schilnder's List
And Boyz in the Hood
And Gangs of New York

If Oprah wants to do a historically relevant of modern day prical story, she can do it. Just do it better than A Wrinkle in Time.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2018, 02:02:11 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.
So you don't think its possible for a movie to concentratre on being the best movie it can be while also delivering a social message or political view?

I do and I think Black Panther is proof of that. I haven't seen a Wrinkle in Time but tend to hate Oprah Winfrey stuff because she goes way too overboard in dramaticizing the plight of black people to the detriment of the movie.

For instance, I think The Help was am immensely important and great film. They did it right with great actors and actresses without all the pomp and circumstance that usually happens with an Oprah film.

Movies can do both, but there are creative choices made that prioritize one over the other. Was Black Panther’s focus making a great superhero movie, or pushing social justice. It’s obviously the former.

A Wrinkle In Time is what happens when you give $100 million to somebody who is pushing her own agenda, rather than making a great movie.
And again, I come down to just do it better. You can make a great film while pushing a social agenda. You can also fail at it. I just don't think its exclusive if you're going to push a political agenda film that its doomed to fail. You can do both.

Black Panther is proof of this.
So is Schilnder's List
And Boyz in the Hood
And Gangs of New York

If Oprah wants to do a historically relevant of modern day prical story, she can do it. Just do it better than A Wrinkle in Time.
what was the agenda of Gangs of New York?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2018, 02:05:16 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #156 on: March 09, 2018, 02:16:40 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/a_wrinkle_in_time_2018#contentReviews

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/03/08/oprahs-ultra-pc-wrinkle-in-time-stung-with-bad-reviews-as-cringeworthy-100-million-dollar-disney-movie-could-bomb-experts-say.html
They just did it poorly. Black Panther had a ton of political themes in it including social justice and did it right. I don't think just because you are pushing a social theme in a movie that that means its going to be bad, which is what you are hinting at here. It is possible to get out political opinions and social ideas and still create a great movie.

It comes down to priorities: is the movie first, or is the social agenda?

Everything I’ve read about a Wrinkle In Time has been about Oprah and the director pushing the latter, without focusing on a great underlying story.
So you don't think its possible for a movie to concentratre on being the best movie it can be while also delivering a social message or political view?

I do and I think Black Panther is proof of that. I haven't seen a Wrinkle in Time but tend to hate Oprah Winfrey stuff because she goes way too overboard in dramaticizing the plight of black people to the detriment of the movie.

For instance, I think The Help was am immensely important and great film. They did it right with great actors and actresses without all the pomp and circumstance that usually happens with an Oprah film.

Movies can do both, but there are creative choices made that prioritize one over the other. Was Black Panther’s focus making a great superhero movie, or pushing social justice. It’s obviously the former.

A Wrinkle In Time is what happens when you give $100 million to somebody who is pushing her own agenda, rather than making a great movie.
And again, I come down to just do it better. You can make a great film while pushing a social agenda. You can also fail at it. I just don't think its exclusive if you're going to push a political agenda film that its doomed to fail. You can do both.

Black Panther is proof of this.
So is Schilnder's List
And Boyz in the Hood
And Gangs of New York

If Oprah wants to do a historically relevant of modern day prical story, she can do it. Just do it better than A Wrinkle in Time.
what was the agenda of Gangs of New York?
The oppression of the Irish as they entered the country and were forced to be enscripted into the Civil War.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #157 on: March 09, 2018, 07:04:36 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.

And yet because of the population percentages there are more whites who live in poverty greenballers13.


Quote
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.

Quote
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

So a lesser percentage but a larger amount.  I do think there is "white privelege" it exists but most folks like complain about it and use it as an excuse.   There are people from all ethnicities that rise above poverty and don't let this stop them.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2018, 08:18:54 AM »

Offline Moranis

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.

And yet because of the population percentages there are more whites who live in poverty greenballers13.


Quote
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.

Quote
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

So a lesser percentage but a larger amount.  I do think there is "white privelege" it exists but most folks like complain about it and use it as an excuse.   There are people from all ethnicities that rise above poverty and don't let this stop them.
sure but based on society and the majority it is still easier if you are white than if you are black. 
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #159 on: March 09, 2018, 08:40:17 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.
I agree. Was purely remarking on the thought process that the the film's problems are predicated on its themes preceding iys quality. When it's more that Disney don't mind losses on unattached properties, that always do poorly even in advanced screenings, provided they can use them to expand their park attractions or product line, regardless.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #160 on: March 09, 2018, 08:53:41 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Could this be what happens when you care more about pushing social justice rather than making great movies?

Easy answer: no. Disney have an extremely questionable record with their non-animation based, non-franchise based live action films. John Carter - massive flop. The Lone Ranger - massive flop. Tomorrowland - massive flop. The Finest Hours - flop. Pete's Dragon - so, so. BFG - flop.

Agenda or not, these films are rarely good and Disney don't seem to care as long as they can sell some merchandise off them.

many big budget films flop, it doesn't stop them from being made. if predominantly black movies (rarely a big budget) fail, it signals to some people that it was because audiences won't or don't want to go see those types of movies. you can't prove otherwise if they aren't going to fund movies with POC the way they do for other projects.

I have yet to see anyone argue that things aren't getting better but to pretend that it's close to equal IMO is hilarious.
I agree. Was purely remarking on the thought process that the the film's problems are predicated on its themes preceding iys quality. When it's more that Disney don't mind losses on unattached properties, that always do poorly even in advanced screenings, provided they can use them to expand their park attractions or product line, regardless.
But if they sell so much merchandise that they end up profitable, then it was a good decision to make the movie.  Some movies, like Tomorrowland do pretty well overseas also, which often isn't in the initial numbers. 
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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #161 on: March 09, 2018, 08:57:41 AM »

Online Roy H.

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.

And yet because of the population percentages there are more whites who live in poverty greenballers13.


Quote
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.

Quote
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

So a lesser percentage but a larger amount.  I do think there is "white privelege" it exists but most folks like complain about it and use it as an excuse.   There are people from all ethnicities that rise above poverty and don't let this stop them.
sure but based on society and the majority it is still easier if you are white than if you are black.

Only if you paint with a broad brush.

But, when you pair race with other factors — primarily economic — that analysis changes.

People with economic means are advantaged over those who don’t, regardless of skin color.


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Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #162 on: March 09, 2018, 10:10:23 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I don't feel threatened by people telling me that I'm fortunate. I came to the conclusion before they told me. Everyone has the ability to think whatever they want- there's no right answer. You can tell me I should feel privileged or I should feel neglected. Either way, I know that I grew up as a middle class white guy in MA and have a college degree. I'm effectively doing better than 95% of the people on earth, from an economic and opportunity standpoint. Some people would take this as a criticism- "you should have done more with your privileged life". Maybe, maybe not. I think the important part is that people should be able to look around and acknowledge their blessings, whatever they may be.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #163 on: March 09, 2018, 10:16:49 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.

And yet because of the population percentages there are more whites who live in poverty greenballers13.


Quote
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.

Quote
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

So a lesser percentage but a larger amount.  I do think there is "white privelege" it exists but most folks like complain about it and use it as an excuse.   There are people from all ethnicities that rise above poverty and don't let this stop them.


10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.

33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.

These stats are alarming. Am I the only one that notices a difference between these groups? A black kid is 3.3x more likely to be impoverished than a white kid. Almost half of black kids in Ohio are impoverished? Yikes.

Re: Oscars -- Thoughts About Racial Inequality
« Reply #164 on: March 09, 2018, 10:18:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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... being white, male, and able to speak English will get you pretty far in this world.

You forgot “being raised outside of poverty”, which is way more important than anything you listed.
That and having a family(2 parents) and not having a kid before you  reach some level of financial stability.

And yet because of the population percentages there are more whites who live in poverty greenballers13.


Quote
10% of white children (4.2 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among white children range from 7% in Texas to 12% in Michigan.
27% of Latino children (4 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among Latino children range from 19% in Florida to 35% in Pennsylvania.
33% of black children (3.6 million). In the 10 most populated states, rates of child poverty among black children range from 29% in California and Florida to 47% in Ohio.
12% of Asian children (400,000) and 40% of American Indian (200,000) Comparable state comparisons are not possible due to small sample sizes.

Quote
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.

http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html

So a lesser percentage but a larger amount.  I do think there is "white privelege" it exists but most folks like complain about it and use it as an excuse.   There are people from all ethnicities that rise above poverty and don't let this stop them.
sure but based on society and the majority it is still easier if you are white than if you are black.

Only if you paint with a broad brush.

But, when you pair race with other factors — primarily economic — that analysis changes.

People with economic means are advantaged over those who don’t, regardless of skin color.
Sure economic factors weigh in heavily when looking at persons from different economic backgrounds, but would you rather be a rich white or a rich black or a poor white or a poor black.  At the same economic levels when comparing whites to blacks, American society tells us it is far better to be white.
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