Why do people label Kanye West as a "Musical Genius"?

[Bankshot]

I can think of two other hip hop artists that i would put above him just off the top of my head.

Jay-Z
Eminem

Eminen is great rap artist, but not "musical genius".  I don't think Jay-Z is a great rap artist or musical genius. He does make pretty good music though. I think Kanye is both. That's my opinion anyway.

[Rondo2287]

I can think of two other hip hop artists that i would put above him just off the top of my head.

Jay-Z
Eminem

Eminen is great rap artist, but not "musical genius".  I don't think Jay-Z is a great rap artist or musical genius. He does make pretty good music though. I think Kanye is both. That's my opinion anyway.

I think it depends on what you consider a genious.  I think Jay -z and Eminem have both been infinitely more influential on music over the past decade than kanye west

[ManUp]

Eminem is a better lyricist then Kanye, but no way does he make better music or is he more influential. When you say influential think about how many producers imitate Kanye(especially the use of samples) and I personally think he's the reason big labels have stopped trying to push the gangsta rap so hard. If it wasn't for Kanye I don't think guys like Wale, Kid Cudi, B.O.B., Drake(who's style and swagger is totally ripped from Kanye), etc would have gotten their chance.

[boom]

I can think of two other hip hop artists that i would put above him just off the top of my head.

Jay-Z
Eminem

Eminen is great rap artist, but not "musical genius".  I don't think Jay-Z is a great rap artist or musical genius. He does make pretty good music though. I think Kanye is both. That's my opinion anyway.

I think it depends on what you consider a genious.  I think Jay -z and Eminem have both been infinitely more influential on music over the past decade than kanye west

You dont think Eminem and Jay Z are musical geniuses, despite the influence of their works and the way they broke barriers, then I dont know what to say.

EDIT: Not at you bankshot.

[Junkyard Dawg]

Great post.  All the rationale here for Kanye being a musical genius goes something like this: "Just LOOK at how good his music is!" (translated: look how good I think his music is).  "Look at how many albums he's sold!" (translated: look at the music people are buying these days).

I don't listen to enough Kanye to make a judgment about how talented he is, but I would be curious to know what real musicians (as opposed to entertainers) think about how much of a musical genius he is.  Kevin Eubanks, Branford Marsalis, Herbie Hancock, just to name a few that ppl may have heard of, these are musical geniuses.  Kanye may make music that is enjoyable to listen to, but a musical genius?  To me, a musical genius is someone who has a balanace of refined technique (i.e. someone who practices 12+ hours a day) and natural ability.  What's always impressed me are rappers who can freestyle i.e. Q-Tip, Eminem, etc.

It's funny this gets posted on a pro sports teams message board.  We all are on here because we have a profound appreciation for watching the most talented and naturally gifted basketball players in the world exercise their craft (we're not watching college, NBDL, etc.).  Yet I think even the most fervent Kanye supporter on here would agree that most of the popular music out there is total garbage.

[Rondo2287]

Eminem is a better lyricist then Kanye, but no way does he make better music or is he more influential. When you say influential think about how many producers imitate Kanye(especially the use of samples) and I personally think he's the reason big labels have stopped trying to push the gangsta rap so hard. If it wasn't for Kanye I don't think guys like Wale, Kid Cudi, B.O.B., Drake(who's style and swagger is totally ripped from Kanye), etc would have gotten their chance.

I just don't see it.  I think Kanye really isnt even in the conversation.

[boom]

Great post.  All the rationale here for Kanye being a musical genius goes something like this: "Just LOOK at how good his music is!" (translated: look how good I think his music is).  "Look at how many albums he's sold!" (translated: look at the music people are buying these days).

I don't listen to enough Kanye to make a judgment about how talented he is, but I would be curious to know what real musicians (as opposed to entertainers) think about how much of a musical genius he is.  Kevin Eubanks, Branford Marsalis, Herbie Hancock, just to name a few that ppl may have heard of, these are musical geniuses.  Kanye may make music that is enjoyable to listen to, but a musical genius?  To me, a musical genius is someone who has a balanace of refined technique (i.e. someone who practices 12+ hours a day) and natural ability.  What's always impressed me are rappers who can freestyle i.e. Q-Tip, Eminem, etc.

It's funny this gets posted on a pro sports teams message board.  We all are on here because we have a profound appreciation for watching the most talented and naturally gifted basketball players in the world exercise their craft (we're not watching college, NBDL, etc.).  Yet I think even the most fervent Kanye supporter on here would agree that most of the popular music out there is total garbage.

It's not really an argument of look at how many albums he's sold or look how good his music is, it's about his ability to create things that other people can't even dream of.

The way his produces his beats is unmatched by 99.99% of other producers out there (save Premier and I guess Dr. Dre for the mainstream audience). Are there other great producers, of course. However there's no one out there that as the ability to and then actually does touch/influence so many people.

Dont get me wrong, there are rappers that have more talented than him, but they're not as influential nor important (rightfully or wrongfully).

It's the complete package that is rare, and that what makes him so unique.

[boom]

Eminem is a better lyricist then Kanye, but no way does he make better music or is he more influential. When you say influential think about how many producers imitate Kanye(especially the use of samples) and I personally think he's the reason big labels have stopped trying to push the gangsta rap so hard. If it wasn't for Kanye I don't think guys like Wale, Kid Cudi, B.O.B., Drake(who's style and swagger is totally ripped from Kanye), etc would have gotten their chance.

I just don't see it.  I think Kanye really isnt even in the conversation.

@ ManUp -- Em is arguably the greatest rapper of all time, considering his lyricism, style, and influence on the genre. What you said about Kanye (and it's true to an extent) can be said about Eminem and his "wacky" lyrics, and more heartfelt "Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. the world" songs.

@ Rondo -- I dont really see how you cant put Kanye in the conversation.  Two classic albums, rest are stellar, his production is top 3, features are always on point, and helped bring Chicago rap to the forefront (with Common and Lupe). Hundreds of wanna-be rappers study his flow. Millions of wanna-be producers study his beat-making style. To not have him in the conversation is absurd.

[MattG12]

I'm not claiming to be some stuck up hip-hop head who thinks his opinion is the only opinion, but as far as my preferences go... Kanye West I have him at #5. He has been my most listened to artist for the past 2 months. I just purchased all of his albums and I can't wait for his next album to drop in November. He's an incredible producer, his songs have meaning (Through the Wire, Roses, Spaceship, Drive Slow), he's a great entertainer, and he's a savvy business man. Look what he's doing right now... releasing a brand new song for free with ridiculous collaborations every week. If he keeps it up until Christmas like he says he will, I'm likely going to be listening to him primarily for another year.

For kicks, and because I have issues and have to make a list for everything... here is a list of my personal favorite emcees.

1.   Eminem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilSv4EW4fPw&feature=related
2.   Andre 3000 (Outkast)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtJj9ir0PBc
3.   Notorious B.I.G.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmvQypO_vnE
4.   Jay-Z
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE-2UKP4Dm0
5.   Kanye West
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLApBMAGjKk&feature=related
6.   Lupe Fiasco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dzoSMysMYk&feature=related
7.   Big L
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIzkURJZ26w
8.   Nas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1_eIH-0Oyg&feature=related
9.   Tupac Shakur
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLN9lgaGy-k&feature=related
10.   Method Man (Wu-Tang Clan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ5bBDu1Ed0
11.   K’Naan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lCPXEARpE8
12.   Slug (Atmosphere)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlXvCsledTA
13.   Pharoahe Monch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5HXC58oR8
14.   Black Thought (The Roots)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jBQen30NW8
15.   Common Sense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNymmiAFV_8
16.   GZA/Genius (Wu-Tang Clan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB8_tvmamuQ
17.   RZA (Wu-Tang Clan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ax_uVaato
18.   T.I.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfxiS956KEA
19.   Ludacris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpBuScG_S50
20.   Ice Cube (NWA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8kcwcrP9ZE&feature=related

[boom]

I dig all those artists. Good stuff. Especially like the Big L look, so many people forget/look over him. Sad he was taken so young.

Not to derail the thread..did anyone see Blackstar last night at the HoB? I couldn't make it, but wanted to go.

[Rondo2287]

Personally my top three

Eminem
Jay-Z
Blackalicious

I would say Kanye is 5 or 6

[Chris]

I think musical "genius" is a tough thing to throw around, because so much of it is so objective.  But the guy is clearly incredibly talented, and has an incredible understanding of pop music, and a great ear.  

[indeedproceed]

I can think of two other hip hop artists that i would put above him just off the top of my head.

Jay-Z
Eminem

Jay-Z and Eminem are head and shoulders above Kanye lyrically, but so are like 30 other artists.

In terms of "Pop-Art" Kanye West is a genius in the same way that Andy Worhol was a genius, or the same way Pee-Wee Herman was a genius. They're innovators. Jay-Z and Eminem didn't really revolutionize anything. They were (and are, depending on your preference) simply the most talented artists of their time.

[bdm860]

What Puff Daddy was in the 90's, Kanye is in the 00's.

I think Kanye might be a genius in how marketable he is.

As far as pure rap skills go, he's sub par.
As far as singing goes, he's terrible.
As far as production goes, he's great.

Put that all together, does that make him a genius?

I think he's overrated as a producer too, not that he's not great.  But it's like when I hear somebody say Dwayne Wade is one of the best players ever, DWade is great, and he's one of the best right now, but it doesn't make him one of the best ever.  To me it's the same discussion with Kanye being a genius.

He's definitely not a genius for his rapping/singing skills.  You think he has a great production discography, but so do a lot of other people (it seems like 99% of the music, is produced by 1% of the people, no wonder everything sounds the same now).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Storch_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbaland_production_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Blaze_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trackmasters_production_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannie_Fresh_production_discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swizz_Beatz_production_discography

So much is preference, but I think those producers hold their own with Kanye.  Although Timbaland and Mannie Fresh also rap, Kanye definitely puts it altogether better than them.  When it comes to production, I just think Kanye's sticks out more, because it seems like every song he produces now he also spits a verse on, just makes him more noticeable, while you don't notice every song other producers do.  Since you see Kanye so much now, and he loves the limelight and seems like he's always in front of the camera, you see him every where and think he's a genius, but how often do you see Scott Storch?  I just think how Kanye loves the media attention helps people think he's so great.

Like Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens and Stephon Marbury, all the media attention they get helps people think they're better than they are.  (Again, not that they weren't Pro-Ballers/All-Stars, and they were better than 99% of the rest of the people who try to play their sports, but not geniuses/greatest). 

[Witch-King]

I'm sorry, but Jay-Z in my opinion is one of the greatest rappers of all time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRnpHgyzQoA

...hey, he's the only Emcee in my knowledge who has beaten LeBron James in basketball, one on one.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EWruiIjBmo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moDtBwdXAuw