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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticsElite on July 17, 2018, 03:21:24 AM

Title: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: CelticsElite on July 17, 2018, 03:21:24 AM
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...
Bender 2018 Summer League Totals:

33pts on 35 field goal attempts
Zero FT attempts in 110 minutes
23.9% TO Rate
Two Steals
Two Blocks

Come on... it’s your 3rd year and you’re putting up these numbers against scrubs? It’s no wonder why The suns had the worst record in the league last season. You got players like this on that squad

I don’t have josh Jackson’s numbers but he wasn’t so hot either. Turnovers galore and bad shooting. Thank you for making Ainge fly across the country for nothing. Lol thx for Tatum
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Somebody on July 17, 2018, 03:30:58 AM
It's more like the Suns couldn't develop young talent to save their lives.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: greece66 on July 17, 2018, 03:38:19 AM
It's more like the Suns couldn't develop young talent to save their lives.


(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/307/files/2014/10/isaiah-thomas-nba-phoenix-suns-media-day1-850x560.jpg)
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: gouki88 on July 17, 2018, 04:08:40 AM
It's more like the Suns couldn't develop young talent to save their lives.
If guys like TJ Warren and Devin Booker hadn't improved every year of their career, then this might be the case.

Considering what Jackson was doing at the end of '17-'18, I wouldn't be worried about summer league performance. Bender is a bit of an unknown though
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: ederson on July 17, 2018, 04:14:15 AM
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...


It would have been my 'i told you' moment. He was in my mind the second coming of Hezonja but now that looks too optimistic!

I think though that bender in boston wold have been better than he is now (not as good as Brown of course).

Still this kind of comparisons are not fair. Even in this case where there were huge red flags it is not easy to ignore an agile 17-18yo 7ft . We can easily play the internet GM but it is a different  thing to take an actual responsibility especialy when the previous years GMs skipped Giannis because he looked too raw.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Somebody on July 17, 2018, 04:17:59 AM
It's more like the Suns couldn't develop young talent to save their lives.


(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/307/files/2014/10/isaiah-thomas-nba-phoenix-suns-media-day1-850x560.jpg)
Nah >we developed IT 8)
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 17, 2018, 07:23:09 AM
Bender .....might be a poor mans KO one day
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 17, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
Quote
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...

Ainge would not have made that mistake.   Because all the signs were out there on Bender if you watched his tape and were honest.   But guys fall for the hype train every year.  Ainge is not usually one of them.   But you could see Bender was not athletic and had little in common with the Porzingas other than height.   His vertical when he was drafted was horrible.  His max vertical was like 27.5" inches.   That is not his standing vertical but his max with a run and for a professional athlete is it very bad.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/

That told me that he did not have a very good athletic base to grow into and would struggle against NBA athletes because he lacked fast twitch muscles.  He was is also skinny and weak so he could not offset this stuff with strength like some guys can.  Some guys saw this and projected greatness, and they were wrong.

Everyone knows Jackson can't shoot and still can't he is a taller Marcus Smart.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Surferdad on July 17, 2018, 07:39:16 AM
Dragan Bender played SL?  I thought he would have been close to retirement by now.   ;D   ;D
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 17, 2018, 08:34:21 AM
It's more like the Suns couldn't develop young talent to save their lives.


(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/307/files/2014/10/isaiah-thomas-nba-phoenix-suns-media-day1-850x560.jpg)
Nah >we developed IT 8)

And the Kings. IT spent half a season in Pheonix -- arguably his worst half-season.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 17, 2018, 09:11:57 AM
Dragan Bender played SL?  I thought he would have been close to retirement by now.   ;D   ;D

He's showcasing his skills for the Euro and Chinese league scouts.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: saltlover on July 17, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
I think we have to also look at the Suns player development, or lack thereof, especially last season.  In addition to Bender and Jackson, Chriss looked no better, and TJ Warren stagnated as well.  There’s a lot wrong with that organization.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: timpiker on July 17, 2018, 09:25:14 AM
I remember many wanted Bender over Brown....phew, glad we have Danny.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Moranis on July 17, 2018, 09:34:32 AM
I think we have to also look at the Suns player development, or lack thereof, especially last season.  In addition to Bender and Jackson, Chriss looked no better, and TJ Warren stagnated as well.  There’s a lot wrong with that organization.
This is one of the main reasons I'm not sold on Phoenix being any better than last year (or at least appreciably better).  They are just a mess of a franchise
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: nickagneta on July 17, 2018, 11:01:25 AM
Quote
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...

Ainge would not have made that mistake.   Because all the signs were out there on Bender if you watched his tape and were honest.   But guys fall for the hype train every year.  Ainge is not usually one of them.   But you could see Bender was not athletic and had little in common with the Porzingas other than height.   His vertical when he was drafted was horrible.  His max vertical was like 27.5" inches.   That is not his standing vertical but his max with a run and for a professional athlete is it very bad.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/

That told me that he did not have a very good athletic base to grow into and would struggle against NBA athletes because he lacked fast twitch muscles.  He was is also skinny and weak so he could not offset this stuff with strength like some guys can.  Some guys saw this and projected greatness, and they were wrong.

Everyone knows Jackson can't shoot and still can't he is a taller Marcus Smart.
Completely agree that Bender being a complete bust was a very likely scenario given everything that was available for us amatuers to see. How professionals didn't see it is beyond me but some agents do a great job of hiding their clients and getting media to hype their clients.

Bender
Exum
Mudiay

All were major hypes in the media that just could not and would not hold up to that hype.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 17, 2018, 11:13:02 AM
I remember many wanted Bender over Brown....phew, glad we have Danny.

I agree,  i never ever wanted Bender

I admit i did not see Brown pick coming . 

I think the choices have been better the MOrE input CBS has .
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: footey on July 17, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Quote
Imagine if Ainge picked bender over brown...

Ainge would not have made that mistake.   Because all the signs were out there on Bender if you watched his tape and were honest.   But guys fall for the hype train every year.  Ainge is not usually one of them.   But you could see Bender was not athletic and had little in common with the Porzingas other than height.   His vertical when he was drafted was horrible.  His max vertical was like 27.5" inches.   That is not his standing vertical but his max with a run and for a professional athlete is it very bad.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dragan-Bender-62877/

That told me that he did not have a very good athletic base to grow into and would struggle against NBA athletes because he lacked fast twitch muscles.  He was is also skinny and weak so he could not offset this stuff with strength like some guys can.  Some guys saw this and projected greatness, and they were wrong.

Everyone knows Jackson can't shoot and still can't he is a taller Marcus Smart.
Completely agree that Bender being a complete bust was a very likely scenario given everything that was available for us amatuers to see. How professionals didn't see it is beyond me but some agents do a great job of hiding their clients and getting media to hype their clients.

Bender
Exum
Mudiay

All were major hypes in the media that just could not and would not hold up to that hype.

Wiggins
Fultz

The list could be a long one.

I have had my fair share of bad guesses. Have yet to meet the person who has not. Certainly not on this site.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: JHTruth on July 17, 2018, 11:46:01 AM
Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Smartacus on July 17, 2018, 11:51:57 AM
I was a Jamal Murray guy the year we got Jaylen, and even though things have gone well with Murray of course I'm ecstatic that we have Jaylen and wouldn't go back and change things if given the chance. I was high on bender early in the process, but at that point I thought we still had a chance to develop Kelly Olynyk so I shifted focus to to Murray.

I will say last year I was high on Lauri Markkanen and even though Tatum has been the second coming and again there's no looking back Markkanen could have been  a  perfect fit here  and has already proven to be the guy that many expected Bender would be albeit with more shot creation and less defense and playmaking.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: footey on July 17, 2018, 11:59:03 AM
Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt

A lot (not all) of the folk who claim they saw it coming with Bender are the same who saw Porzingis was going to be a bust.  Be real.

I was a big proponent of Porzingis a year before he came into the draft. Was hoping we could get him with our 17th pick (the one used on James Young). Unfortunately he pulled out.

I thought Bender was very intriguing. I did not like him as much as Porzingis, but I thought he was a prototype stretch 4/5, with nice shooting stroke from 3, and pretty good quickness for a guy his size.  Looks like I was wrong.  (By the way, I also liked Jaylen Brown a lot, and was very happy when we took him at 3, and did not trade the pick).

Still think Bender is too young to declare a bust.  Probably could be gotten for a cheap price, and, if the price is right, and with good coaching, could see turning out to be decent. 
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: JHTruth on July 17, 2018, 12:02:09 PM
Come on who didn't see Bust Bender coming. The guy is a **** Bambi out there. No aggression at all.

Jackson still has some upside but he needs to be better this year no doubt

A lot (not all) of the folk who claim they saw it coming with Bender are the same who saw Porzingis was going to be a bust.  Be real.

I was a big proponent of Porzingis a year before he came into the draft. Was hoping we could get him with our 17th pick (the one used on James Young). Unfortunately he pulled out.

I thought Bender was very intriguing. I did not like him as much as Porzingis, but I thought he was a prototype stretch 4/5, with nice shooting stroke from 3, and pretty good quickness for a guy his size.  Looks like I was wrong.  (By the way, I also liked Jaylen Brown a lot, and was very happy when we took him at 3, and did not trade the pick).

Still think Bender is too young to declare a bust.  Probably could be gotten for a cheap price, and, if the price is right, and with good coaching, could see turning out to be decent.

Bender never looked anything like Zinger to me. Totally different players in every way. I live in Phoenix and I hated the Bender pick from Day 1
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: PhoSita on July 17, 2018, 12:08:29 PM
I think Bender needs to go play in Europe for a few years and then try to come back after he's developed his game and regained his confidence.

I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

The Suns were just about the worst place for him to end up as a rookie, and his development has gone off the rails.  Maybe he would have been a bust regardless, but I tend to believe that a team that drafts a player has a lot of responsibility for giving a player the best shot at finding a place in the league.  The Suns ... haven't done that. 

If you put Bender on the Celts from Day 1, maybe he looks like a younger Daniel Theis or something.

If you put Jaylen Brown on the Suns, how would that have gone?  I think he would have struggled.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: saltlover on July 17, 2018, 12:14:40 PM
I liked Bender’s potential heading into the draft, but I was on record as saying I’d only take him at #3 on the condition he stayed overseas for at least another season, and preferably two.  He clearly wasn’t ready for the NBA, and now he still isn’t even as the clock on his rookie deal is quickly ticking away.  I was also very happy to take Brown, who by draft night had become my #3 behind Simmons and Ingram.  But Bender needed more time to develop before coming to th NBA, and that is playing out in a bad way for both him and the Suns.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: JHTruth on July 17, 2018, 12:44:41 PM
I think Bender needs to go play in Europe for a few years and then try to come back after he's developed his game and regained his confidence.

I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

The Suns were just about the worst place for him to end up as a rookie, and his development has gone off the rails.  Maybe he would have been a bust regardless, but I tend to believe that a team that drafts a player has a lot of responsibility for giving a player the best shot at finding a place in the league.  The Suns ... haven't done that. 

If you put Bender on the Celts from Day 1, maybe he looks like a younger Daniel Theis or something.

If you put Jaylen Brown on the Suns, how would that have gone?  I think he would have struggled.

The Celtics have proven themselves one of the best talent development squads in the league. Rozier/Brown/Tatum even Semi are playing minutes for an ECF squad..
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 17, 2018, 01:06:03 PM
I liked Bender’s potential heading into the draft, but I was on record as saying I’d only take him at #3 on the condition he stayed overseas for at least another season, and preferably two.  He clearly wasn’t ready for the NBA, and now he still isn’t even as the clock on his rookie deal is quickly ticking away.  I was also very happy to take Brown, who by draft night had become my #3 behind Simmons and Ingram.  But Bender needed more time to develop before coming to th NBA, and that is playing out in a bad way for both him and the Suns.

We both argued for Bender pre-draft. At worst, I thought he could be a better Jonas Jerebko. His career arc right now is not trending in a good direction.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: PhoSita on July 17, 2018, 01:41:11 PM
 In fairness to Bender, he's still 2 years younger than Jonas was when he entered the league.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Androslav on July 17, 2018, 01:53:52 PM
I am still a believer, even though I am far from satisfied. I will be untill that boy is 25 and not functional in any shape or form. I rationalize this by blaming poor Phoenix management/coaching and their directionless leadership.
Since 2010 WCF they have been one of the worst NBA franchises by all accounts. IMO, they have blew it this off-season too.

He probably is their best passer and stretch big on the team. That says something about him and a lot about Phoenix.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: mmmmm on July 17, 2018, 01:57:33 PM
1) Totally glad we took Jaylen Brown over Bender or any of the other choices.   Jaylen came into the league with an NBA body and has seemed like a great fit for what this team needed very quickly.  Looks like he could be an All-NBA defender as early as this coming season.   Easily worth that #3 pick.

2) 'Would have been fine if Danny had picked Bender though -- he just would have been a much longer term project who would not have been expected to contribute anywhere near as much as Brown so soon.  He's still too physically raw.  People forget that he's still not going to be 21 years old until this coming November.  He's younger than half the kids who just got drafted.

3) He played over 2000 minutes this last regular season and shot a solid 36.6% on threes and a decent overall scoring efficiency of .524 TS.   I don't think his current 'development' is really reflected by 110 minutes of Summer League scrimmage where he wasn't really there to be featured or anything.

May still turn out to be a bust.  But based on normal measures and considering his age, he's kind of 'on track' to not be a bust.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 02:02:18 PM
I believed in Bender as a prospect, not as a superstar, but as a potentially really valuable glue guy, a stretch 4-5 who could do a bit of everything and defend multiple positions.

And we could still see this. I think the two worst things that happened to Bender were the Suns drafting another PF (Chriss) in the same draft and the coaching carousel that continues in Phoenix (they're going on their 3rd coach in as many seasons). I would love to know how Bender would look if he had gone to a team like Boston, SA, or even Miami (with their widely respected conditioning program). That said, there have been some flashes (see video below) and he's still only 20, which is the same age as Williams, 2 years younger than Yabusele, and 3 years younger than Semi. So he's far from a finished project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3iAkuFsQ-o
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Tr1boy on July 17, 2018, 02:10:10 PM
Eddie20 what happened?
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Future Celtics Owner on July 17, 2018, 02:48:44 PM
Eddie20 what happened?
If I remember correctly weren't you really high on Zinger?

I liked him but remember for months before the draft I LITERALLY ended all my posts with "Must draft Myles Turner" lol. People/scouts were so hung up on Turner's funky running and thought he was the best value pick...enough so that I was rooting for us not to make the playoffs. Funny people don't ever mention Turner's funky running anymore and he is looked at as a very good athlete. IMO the data was all there.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: ederson on July 17, 2018, 02:49:04 PM
@triboy16f I ve been waiting for this post :)

I won't throw anyone under the bus cause God knows how many times i got something wrong but the where a lot of strong pro Bender voices based on thin air .... short utube clips and a less than basic knowledge of european basketball

Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 17, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
ha. i was a bender-holic. i thought he would be a great sf with outside shooting, great size, rebounds, you name it.

it is still early, but it is about to be getting late. if bender is going to make me not look stupid with my prediction, he better get his butt in gear really really soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: JHTruth on July 17, 2018, 03:31:01 PM
@triboy16f I ve been waiting for this post :)

I won't throw anyone under the bus cause God knows how many times i got something wrong but the where a lot of strong pro Bender voices based on thin air .... short utube clips and a less than basic knowledge of european basketball

The Celtics fan base has a strong affinity for Euros. Always have. Every obscure Euro from every tiny country in the former Combloc is a superstar in the eyes of Celtic fans.

I can tell you the Suns fanbase is done with him. Even the radio hosts are like whatever when they were discussing this article this morning lol.

IF he is successful, it won't be in Phoenix..
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: ederson on July 17, 2018, 03:41:33 PM
@triboy16f I ve been waiting for this post :)

I won't throw anyone under the bus cause God knows how many times i got something wrong but the where a lot of strong pro Bender voices based on thin air .... short utube clips and a less than basic knowledge of european basketball

The Celtics fan base has a strong affinity for Euros. Always have. Every obscure Euro from every tiny country in the former Combloc is a superstar in the eyes of Celtic fans.

I can tell you the Suns fanbase is done with him. Even the radio hosts are like whatever when they were discussing this article this morning lol.

IF he is successful, it won't be in Phoenix..

My only objection here is that especially in Bender's case the "in the eyes of celtic fans"  is a figure of speech cause nobody had seen him play. The last two seasons before the draft he rarely played for maccabi (a very bad maccabi team) and he skipped all jr fiba tournaments.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: JHTruth on July 17, 2018, 03:46:50 PM
@triboy16f I ve been waiting for this post :)

I won't throw anyone under the bus cause God knows how many times i got something wrong but the where a lot of strong pro Bender voices based on thin air .... short utube clips and a less than basic knowledge of european basketball

The Celtics fan base has a strong affinity for Euros. Always have. Every obscure Euro from every tiny country in the former Combloc is a superstar in the eyes of Celtic fans.

I can tell you the Suns fanbase is done with him. Even the radio hosts are like whatever when they were discussing this article this morning lol.

IF he is successful, it won't be in Phoenix..

My only objection here is that especially in Bender's case the "in the eyes of celtic fans"  is a figure of speech cause nobody had seen him play. The last two seasons before the draft he rarely played for maccabi (a very bad maccabi team) and he skipped all jr fiba tournaments.

Which makes anyone having affinity for him as a prospect even worse. They probably were high on him SIMPLY because he was a Euro.

I bet this board will call for Samanic with our pick
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 03:59:55 PM
Eddie20 what happened?

I'm really confused. I'm not the one that made nonsensical post after nonsensical post about Bender, as you did with Mickey. In fact, I don't think I even made a thread about him. I was intrigued by his potential, which I still think he has, just like I'm intrigued by plenty of young players. But if the question is "what happened", then I was say that's probably more appropriate to ask you of Mickey since he's not an NBA roster and poor guy seems desperate...

Jordan Mickey
‏Verified account
@Jmickey_02
 15h15 hours ago
Just need my opportunity



Jordan Mickey
‏Verified account
@Jmickey_02
 Jul 11
Just waiting for my chance
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 17, 2018, 06:15:48 PM
We all get guys wrong sometimes, I just think people ignored the obvious on this one is all.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Beat LA on July 17, 2018, 07:07:40 PM
I just never thought that we, as fans, had nearly enough information on the guy in order to form any kind of educated/informed decision/opinion on him, and the insistence that Bender had "tremendous skill" and "a high basketball iq" just always seemed to have been cut from the same stereotypical assessment that has accompanied seemingly every single European prospect since the beginning of time, imo ::), but whatever.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Monkhouse on July 17, 2018, 07:31:30 PM
Eddie20 what happened?

It's baffling to me that you should judge anyone for their draft binkies.  ;D  :P :P
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: fubar089 on July 17, 2018, 07:47:29 PM
Zero FT attempts in 110 minutes? That's an astounding feat.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: footey on July 17, 2018, 07:52:44 PM
Man this forum better continue somewhere. Where else can we insult each other about our draft pick binkies? LOL.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on July 17, 2018, 07:53:05 PM
Eddie20 what happened?

Great observation.  I think it's time fast Eddie pony up and pay the piper here.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Androslav on July 17, 2018, 08:14:59 PM
Amazing how much more interest Bender creates vis a vis Jackson.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Tr1boy on July 17, 2018, 08:44:13 PM
Man this forum better continue somewhere. Where else can we insult each other about our draft pick binkies? LOL.

I told Eddie20 that this guy is going to be a bust.  But he kept rambling on how he was ahead of his time at age 16.  He outplayed an older Domantas Sabonis in a junior tourney etc.   I mean who banks on these kind of things?

He is a soft as they come PF.  Softer than Olynyk, who at least tries.

I might of been wrong about Mickey (just didn't pan out, but it wasn't for lack of effort).  But how eddie20 banks on a softie like Bender or a dude that drops the ball in their 1st year of college ball (Cliff Alexandre) is beyond me.  Well Cliff Alexandre was a top rated hs prospect was his reasoning. 

Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Tr1boy on July 17, 2018, 08:50:10 PM
Man this forum better continue somewhere. Where else can we insult each other about our draft pick binkies? LOL.

He can only insult me with Mickey because that's the only thread he can hang onto.  Never mentions about Sabonis, Aaron Gordon, Jayson Tatum etc.

Going back to topic,  thank god Danny skipped on Josh Jackson.  Seems like a freestyler not serious to grow his game to the next level. 
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 09:01:23 PM
Man this forum better continue somewhere. Where else can we insult each other about our draft pick binkies? LOL.

He can only insult me with Mickey because that's the only thread he can hang onto.  Never mentions about Sabonis, Aaron Gordon, Jayson Tatum etc.

Did you forget that you said Trey Burke was the next CP3, Kaminsky was going to dominate with his Prime Big Al post game and 3pt shooting, and Buddy Hield should be the #1 overall pick?

I always liked Gordon, but questioned you when you suggested he was a better version of Blake Griffin. Sabonis I liked too, as I always thought he would be a solid pro, but would struggle defensively because his lateral quickness was lacking.

So it's not necessarily that I didn't like these players, even Kaminsky as a reserve stretch big, but rather I didn't think they were as good as you were making them out to be.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Moranis on July 17, 2018, 10:02:09 PM
Summer League doesn't mean much.

As evidence.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: smokeablount on July 17, 2018, 10:19:03 PM
Summer League doesn't mean much.

As evidence.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards

Except if you look at only true rookies to win SL MVP in the past 10 years, you get:

Blake Griffin
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Lonzo Ball

That’s 3/4 in All Stars so far and could be 4/4.

The point is, you can find truth in nuance.
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on July 17, 2018, 10:44:19 PM
Summer League doesn't mean much.

As evidence.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards

Except if you look at only true rookies to win SL MVP in the past 10 years, you get:

Blake Griffin
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Lonzo Ball

That’s 3/4 in All Stars so far and could be 4/4.

The point is, you can find truth in nuance.

Nuance. This is a forum!
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: Moranis on July 18, 2018, 11:19:55 AM
Summer League doesn't mean much.

As evidence.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards

Except if you look at only true rookies to win SL MVP in the past 10 years, you get:

Blake Griffin
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Lonzo Ball

That’s 3/4 in All Stars so far and could be 4/4.

The point is, you can find truth in nuance.
and if you go back 3 more years you add Jerryd Bayless and Randy Foye.  If you look at all the 1st Team Players, even the true rookies, you get a hodge podge of talent. 

Summer League means absolutely nothing. 
Title: Re: Dragan Bender and Josh Jackson had terrible a Summer League
Post by: CelticsElite on July 18, 2018, 01:50:51 PM
Summer League doesn't mean much.

As evidence.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/0/awards

Except if you look at only true rookies to win SL MVP in the past 10 years, you get:

Blake Griffin
John Wall
Damian Lillard
Lonzo Ball

That’s 3/4 in All Stars so far and could be 4/4.

The point is, you can find truth in nuance.
and if you go back 3 more years you add Jerryd Bayless and Randy Foye.  If you look at all the 1st Team Players, even the true rookies, you get a hodge podge of talent. 

Summer League means absolutely nothing.
is that a fair comparison ? 2018 was the first year where all 30 teams participated in summer league. The farther back you go, the less teams there are (meaning less elite players)