Author Topic: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)  (Read 191508 times)

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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #525 on: August 24, 2019, 12:00:50 PM »

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How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.
I think Dr. J would transition well.  He was a solid FT and in the ABA showed an ability to hit 3 point shots at least 33% of the time.  I think he would certainly be able to improve upon that in the modern era.  He wouldn't be super elite at shooting, but would be good enough to keep defenses honest allowing him to utilize his incredible driving and athleticism.

I didn't realize Erving shot the ball that much from 3 during his ABA days. 273 attempts at 32% across 5 years (only 40 of those from first 2 years, 34% on 230 attempts last 3 years). Thanks for pointing that out. That does give me more confidence in his jumper. Maybe I have underrated Dr J on my player rankings.

Watching those Celtics-Sixers games and Sixers-Lakers game, I never had any confidence in Dr J's jumper. I always thought it was a win for the defense whenever he took one (not just in terms of his individual shot selection but team-wide).

Hard to reconcile the two.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #526 on: August 24, 2019, 12:03:48 PM »

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So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago - love the the synergy with Duncan and the Big O

Philadelphia - Larry with a better PF than he had on maybe the greatest team ever, the '86 Celtics

Portland - Magic feeding a beast down low in Moses

Golden State - best defender and rebounder ever in Russell with a unicorn like KD, wow

Teams I Respect
Boston - Robinson would be the best player ever to play alongside LeBron. Scary duo.

Atlanta - Maybe the best frontcourt offensive pairing in the game in Wilt and Dirk. Oh and they are both really tall.

Miami - strong Laker vibe here but Shaq and the Logo are a tremendous pairing, dominant inside and out.

Dallas - Awesome offensive duo with two unstoppable moves, Kareem's shy hook and Dr J driving and going high for the jam.

San Antonio - Great individual guys who, if given the right glue guy could meld Kobe and Hakeem into something special.

Utah - the GOAT with Walton in his prime. This might be the highest BBIQ team in the game with talent to back it up.

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit - the picture is incomplete but the perimeter defense with Kawhi and Hondo will be best in game, possibly.

Los Angeles - given this team started in the 2nd round this is actually a pretty great start.

With LA and Detroit I just think they will eventually need to become a collection with outstanding chemistry to overcome not having a top 15 player or so all time on their teams.
This is very surprising lol, I thought you said that my picks were average. And you're spot on with the chemistry part, I need a bunch of players who fit well together to compete against the top duos rn. I do think that Curry and Garnett have crazy synergy with each other though, Garnett's probably the best player ever who can assume a supercharged errrr some great modern PF role.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 12:14:12 PM by Somebody »
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #527 on: August 24, 2019, 12:06:47 PM »

Offline Somebody

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How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.
I think Dr. J would transition well.  He was a solid FT and in the ABA showed an ability to hit 3 point shots at least 33% of the time.  I think he would certainly be able to improve upon that in the modern era.  He wouldn't be super elite at shooting, but would be good enough to keep defenses honest allowing him to utilize his incredible driving and athleticism.

I didn't realize Erving shot the ball that much from 3 during his ABA days. 273 attempts at 32% across 5 years (only 40 of those from first 2 years, 34% on 230 attempts last 3 years). Thanks for pointing that out. That does give me more confidence in his jumper. Maybe I have underrated Dr J on my player rankings.

Watching those Celtics-Sixers games and Sixers-Lakers game, I never had any confidence in Dr J's jumper. I always thought it was a win for the defense whenever he took one (not just in terms of his individual shot selection but team-wide).

Hard to reconcile the two.
I think the defenses were a bit more lax in the ABA, from what I've seen Dr.J had a pretty significant statistical drop after transitioning to the NBA. His shooting was effective, but it was never really something that threatened teams to go out and guard him really tight imo, and it was a bit worse than I'd like for an off ball role. He'd be great as a big forward though, he could use his offensive tools to thrive on the break and the mid post.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #528 on: August 24, 2019, 12:14:28 PM »

Offline Somebody

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Edited my message, apologies.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #529 on: August 24, 2019, 12:18:20 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago - love the the synergy with Duncan and the Big O

Philadelphia - Larry with a better PF than he had on maybe the greatest team ever, the '86 Celtics

Portland - Magic feeding a beast down low in Moses

Golden State - best defender and rebounder ever in Russell with a unicorn like KD, wow

Teams I Respect
Boston - Robinson would be the best player ever to play alongside LeBron. Scary duo.

Atlanta - Maybe the best frontcourt offensive pairing in the game in Wilt and Dirk. Oh and they are both really tall.

Miami - strong Laker vibe here but Shaq and the Logo are a tremendous pairing, dominant inside and out.

Dallas - Awesome offensive duo with two unstoppable moves, Kareem's shy hook and Dr J driving and going high for the jam.

San Antonio - Great individual guys who, if given the right glue guy could meld Kobe and Hakeem into something special.

Utah - the GOAT with Walton in his prime. This might be the highest BBIQ team in the game with talent to back it up.

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit - the picture is incomplete but the perimeter defense with Kawhi and Hondo will be best in game, possibly.

Los Angeles - given this team started in the 2nd round this is actually a pretty great start.

With LA and Detroit I just think they will eventually need to become a collection with outstanding chemistry to overcome not having a top 15 player or so all time on their teams.
This is very surprising lol, I thought you said that my picks were average. And you're spot on with the chemistry part, I need a bunch of players who fit well together to compete against the top duos rn. I do think that Curry and Garnett have crazy synergy with each other though, Garnett's probably the best player ever who can assume a supercharged Draymond Green role.
I think my only comment on a pick of yours was that I thought KG was picked right about where he should have been picked. I would have KG about 15-17 on an All-Time list and you took him at 14. That's about right.

I don't think there is anything average about anyone that has been selected. We are talking the best of the best. Now I think Curry might have been a bit early but you got the best three point shooting top 20-25 player ever. In this game that is huge.

And yes, I love the synergy. You took, like Detroit, two guys that have proven they can sacrifice their games to let other great players perform and make their teams better than the sum of their parts.

You need to continue building with these types of players to overcome fact that most other team's have better top end talent. Also, because there are teams with better talent that also have similar players that blend together well.

With two picks Monday, you could go a long way into moving into another bracket of mine with a couple of excellent picks.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #530 on: August 24, 2019, 12:37:12 PM »

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So I have been looking over the teams and have classified them into groups. I am periodically going to republish and update this list.

Know this though, even though, I am giving my opinion, my opinion counts for nothing. I will be putting in my vote for who I think won this in the end but I won't be counting that ballot towards deciding who is the winner. Only owners of teams will be making that decision with their ballots.

Also, I will reveal everyone's voting list after publishing the results of the game so we have complete transparency. Okay, so all that out of the way here is my list:

Teams I Like
Chicago - love the the synergy with Duncan and the Big O

Philadelphia - Larry with a better PF than he had on maybe the greatest team ever, the '86 Celtics

Portland - Magic feeding a beast down low in Moses

Golden State - best defender and rebounder ever in Russell with a unicorn like KD, wow

Teams I Respect
Boston - Robinson would be the best player ever to play alongside LeBron. Scary duo.

Atlanta - Maybe the best frontcourt offensive pairing in the game in Wilt and Dirk. Oh and they are both really tall.

Miami - strong Laker vibe here but Shaq and the Logo are a tremendous pairing, dominant inside and out.

Dallas - Awesome offensive duo with two unstoppable moves, Kareem's shy hook and Dr J driving and going high for the jam.

San Antonio - Great individual guys who, if given the right glue guy could meld Kobe and Hakeem into something special.

Utah - the GOAT with Walton in his prime. This might be the highest BBIQ team in the game with talent to back it up.

Teams I Think Have Potential
Detroit - the picture is incomplete but the perimeter defense with Kawhi and Hondo will be best in game, possibly.

Los Angeles - given this team started in the 2nd round this is actually a pretty great start.

With LA and Detroit I just think they will eventually need to become a collection with outstanding chemistry to overcome not having a top 15 player or so all time on their teams.
This is very surprising lol, I thought you said that my picks were average. And you're spot on with the chemistry part, I need a bunch of players who fit well together to compete against the top duos rn. I do think that Curry and Garnett have crazy synergy with each other though, Garnett's probably the best player ever who can assume a supercharged Draymond Green role.
I think my only comment on a pick of yours was that I thought KG was picked right about where he should have been picked. I would have KG about 15-17 on an All-Time list and you took him at 14. That's about right.

I don't think there is anything average about anyone that has been selected. We are talking the best of the best. Now I think Curry might have been a bit early but you got the best three point shooting top 20-25 player ever. In this game that is huge.

And yes, I love the synergy. You took, like Detroit, two guys that have proven they can sacrifice their games to let other great players perform and make their teams better than the sum of their parts.

You need to continue building with these types of players to overcome fact that most other team's have better top end talent. Also, because there are teams with better talent that also have similar players that blend together well.

With two picks Monday, you could go a long way into moving into another bracket of mine with a couple of excellent picks.
I see. Agree with your points, and that's my plan. Hope it does come into fruition ;D
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #531 on: August 24, 2019, 03:17:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How do people think Dr J would do in today's NBA?

On the positive side, I believe he'd benefit greatly as a slasher because nobody could put their hands on him. He was so quick when he was younger. He would blow right by people. Quick and strong. His ball-handling would fare better in today's league too making him a high volume driver in today's league. Forcing teams to send a lot of help defenses over.

On the other hand, I worry about his outside shooting. I never liked his outside shot and his midrange was mediocre so I do not believe he could develop an adequate three point jump-shot.
I think Dr. J would transition well.  He was a solid FT and in the ABA showed an ability to hit 3 point shots at least 33% of the time.  I think he would certainly be able to improve upon that in the modern era.  He wouldn't be super elite at shooting, but would be good enough to keep defenses honest allowing him to utilize his incredible driving and athleticism.

I didn't realize Erving shot the ball that much from 3 during his ABA days. 273 attempts at 32% across 5 years (only 40 of those from first 2 years, 34% on 230 attempts last 3 years). Thanks for pointing that out. That does give me more confidence in his jumper. Maybe I have underrated Dr J on my player rankings.

Watching those Celtics-Sixers games and Sixers-Lakers game, I never had any confidence in Dr J's jumper. I always thought it was a win for the defense whenever he took one (not just in terms of his individual shot selection but team-wide).

Hard to reconcile the two.
Not really.  He barely shot 3 pointers in the NBA.  Never even had 1 attempt a game in any season and was for the most part about 1 attempt every 3 games (his MVP season was 1 attempt every 5 games).  You are never going to hit very many of those because quite frankly when you shoot that infrequently they are being shot as bad shots (like end of the shot clock type shots).  Erving never incorporated outside shooting into his NBA game, but I do think had he grown up in this era, he would have.  Probably shot somewhere in the 2 to 3 a game range and in the 36% range.  That would have been enough to keep defenses honest and that is all he would have needed to do to create space. 

What I'd worry with on him is he is pretty small.  At 6'7", 210 pounds he isn't very big.  I think consistently guarding Lebron, Larry, etc. would wear him down.  And even Durant he would have great difficulty with.  Those guys would also cause significant problems for him on the other end of the floor given their length.  Dr. J was quite simply bigger and stronger than most of the SF's of the late 70's and early 80's, but he is not bigger than the SF's that he will come up against in this thing.  In fact, he is much smaller than most of them.  That is where I would be worried with Dr. J.  His strength and athleticism is just ordinary in this type of draft, rather than extraordinary as it was during his era.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #532 on: August 24, 2019, 03:42:51 PM »

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Since we don't have a trading block thread, I'll just post it here.

I know I said I will try to approach the draft without trading, but I don't think I can.

The Detroit Piston have 3.8 and 6.5 in the upcoming rounds. We are willing to offer that in exchange for a higher 3rd round pick, and your 8th rounder.

Any takers? 
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #533 on: August 24, 2019, 05:55:18 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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Are we going to be doing a coach draft of sorts after the regular draft?
2023 No Top 75 Fantasy Draft Los Angeles Clippers
PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #534 on: August 24, 2019, 06:56:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Are we going to be doing a coach draft of sorts after the regular draft?
I debated this but people will build their team around a certain style of play but then draft Auerbach, who doesn't run that type system. I think it best to assume everyone would hire someone who will run the team the way, you, the team owner wants it run. So, I got rid of the coaching selection round.

But if 7 owners want to play with a coaching round, we can implement one and have it done over next week's 3 day holiday weekend. If you are for having a coach's round, just say so here

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #535 on: August 24, 2019, 08:35:31 PM »

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I do have some concerns for the Kobe and Hakeem duo -

Hakeem - historically - seemed to be the quiet leader. Kobe was the Alpha, the aggressor.

I just think that you need another strong Alpha on that team - a GLUE guy - to add cohesion. I just see Hakeem's brilliance being muted somewhat.

On paper - you do have one of perhaps the most aggressive scorers / slashers ever - comparable only to MJ - but Kobe certainly had streaks of selfishness about him. Shaq was able to push back on that to a degree.

Hakeem? Not sure - YET - that he'd thrive on that team - "YET" being the key word. Would be interested to see who is added with the next picks in the 4th (?) round on Tuesday.

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #536 on: August 24, 2019, 09:22:24 PM »

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Are we going to be doing a coach draft of sorts after the regular draft?
I debated this but people will build their team around a certain style of play but then draft Auerbach, who doesn't run that type system. I think it best to assume everyone would hire someone who will run the team the way, you, the team owner wants it run. So, I got rid of the coaching selection round.

But if 7 owners want to play with a coaching round, we can implement one and have it done over next week's 3 day holiday weekend. If you are for having a coach's round, just say so here

If we draft coaches, I'd like it to not be its own separate round, but rather allowed to be chosen whenever you want.  I vote no if separate round, but yes if in any round desired.  I don't feel that strongly either way.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 underway, make your picks!!)
« Reply #537 on: August 24, 2019, 09:36:43 PM »

Offline action781

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With 2(11) the Celtics select the Admiral, David Robinson

For the record, I am not hating the pick, I think it's great.

With that said, I absolutely debated between three guys on my list. One is John Havlicek, another was David Robinson, and then a third who I can't name because he hasn't been picked yet. And I really tried long and hard to argue to myself into picking The Admiral, and I really almost did. The one thing that prevented me was Hakeem Olajuwon.

It just every time I think about Hakeem dominating David on Robinson's MVP year, I cannot get past that. Robinson is a heck of a player, one of the best we have ever seen. Dominant on both ends. A leader. Excellent teammate. But in the end, that little blemish made pick Hondo over him.

I feel the same way about David Robinson.  Luckily he was drafted into the East and Hakeem is in the West, so there's no guarantee that D-Rob will have to match up against him.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #538 on: August 24, 2019, 10:28:17 PM »

Offline action781

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Observations and questions:

Can Chicago land a center who can defend Shaq, Wilt, and D-Rob?  I think there is 1 or 2, maybe 3, centers available who could possibly fit that bill.  If so, then with Duncan being able to defend Dirk and Malone, plus having Oscar Robertson on offense I think could make them my favorites in the East (of course unless another team really nails their pick).  Lot can still change though.

Hakeem and Kobe seem to be such an ideal fit on paper.  I think GreenFaith's point about their types of leadership is a really interesting one that I hadn't thought of, and probably accurate.

Durant and Russell is a very nice pairing.  Curious to see if Durant eventually gets slotted in at SF or PF.  He will get murdered by PFs like Duncan and KG maybe Malone too, but he'd be such a fantastic floor spacer on an all-time team and offensive player at PF.  He's a rare player who might have been able to defend Dirk at the 4 to some degree?

IMO, there are a few players who "broke the game" through history.  I have those players as being Wilt, Russell, Magic & Larry, Jordan, Shaq, Curry.  Not necessarily the best 7 players of all time, but they all did something that near future players/teams either tried to hard emulate or every team had to go overboard into trying to stop.  They are players that are really fascinating to build around and I think those teams are doing a fine job so far.

I haven't decided how much I should penalize poor FT shooters.  I think it's pretty clear that every team is capable of at least a > 57 TS% even against the great defenses being assembled.  Is a hack-a-shaq strategies on sub 55% ft shooters a way to gain an advantage over those teams?  Not literal hack-a-shaq, but fouling whenever they touch the ball.  You can only do it for so many possessions a game, but every edge helps.  I've been considering that in my roster selection.

Something I love about Utah is how much transition offense we'll create with MJ's steals and Walton's fast break initiating mindset, passing, and defense.  I see a lot of teams that will be able to get out in transition, but Utah looks to be leading in that regard so far.  I'm not sure if I will keep building that way or not though.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 2 over. Have a great weekend!!!)
« Reply #539 on: August 24, 2019, 10:57:45 PM »

Offline Silky

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The only problem kobe ever had with other players was ones that
A) didnt practice or play as hard as he did
B) didnt perform on the court.

A scoring guard that logged 6300 assists in his career is definately a facilitator. "Shoot all the shots kobe" only happened when he had teammates that didnt perform. Period.

Kobe also has great respect for hakeem.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-thanks-hakeem-olajuwon-after-final-game-in-houston/

There is no issue between kobe and hakeem. Mutal respect. Both hyper competetive and driven and both winners.