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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Shad0wman on December 29, 2012, 04:40:11 AM

Title: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Shad0wman on December 29, 2012, 04:40:11 AM
I watched this dude all through college and he just has an innate ability to put the ball in the basket.

You watch him play and all his shots around the hoop are all different, like he may have never taken that kind of shot before but he just makes baskets. If you've seen alot of his games at Ohio State you know what I'm talking about, try to youtube him. There isn't really anyone like him as far as posting up and shot around the basket and I just have this feeling that hes going to become an All-Star in next 3-4 years, maybe sooner.

Would be a big mistake, even now as hes playing decently, to trade him. He plays hard and tough and has his own ways to get rebounds and score points.

please move if this is in wrong section. apologies if so.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: xmuscularghandix on December 29, 2012, 05:02:59 AM
I agree. He's the type of guy I want on this team going forward. I don't send him anywhere unless it's something REALLY serious coming back.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: YallahCeltics34 on December 29, 2012, 05:40:09 AM
Yup. We got a STEAL. Here's to hoping his back holds up.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: j804 on December 29, 2012, 05:44:02 AM
I agree. He's the type of guy I want on this team going forward. I don't send him anywhere unless it's something REALLY serious coming back.
I agree just wished Doc would call his number a few times, let the kid try and get his down low pretty sure he can cause a lot of fouls on opposing guys if not score
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 29, 2012, 07:15:14 AM
I think it depends who you get back.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Stig on December 29, 2012, 07:39:23 AM
I think Doc has given him enough trust, he just needs to learn to stay away from foul trouble.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 29, 2012, 07:45:16 AM
I agree it depends who we are getting back not like we are trading Joe Larry Bird here.

Sample of rookie stats:

Bird 21 PPG 10 RPG
Pierce 16.5 PPG  6 RPG
Moses Malone 18 PPG 10 RPG
Sullinger 5 PPG 5 RPG
Mel Turpin 10 PPG   5 RPG
C. Booser 10 PPG 7.5 RPG
Charles Oakley 10 PPG  8.6 RPG
Glen Davis  4 PPG  3 RPG

Starting to see a pattern? Sullinger isn't untouchable, it's not like he is an all time great in the making.  Right now, I would not value him more than a good journeyman down the road.   All these guys killed it in college too.  College doesn't matter now folks, what he did at OSU is history.  Can he contribute and be a valuable team mate?   Yes!   Is he untradeable and heading to the Hall of Game?   My money is on no.

Got to love our fans though, they over value our guys like no one else.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: moiso on December 29, 2012, 08:28:22 AM
I agree it depends who we are getting back not like we are trading Joe Larry Bird here.

Sample of rookie stats:

Bird 21 PPG 10 RPG
Pierce 16.5 PPG  6 RPG
Moses Malone 18 PPG 10 RPG
Sullinger 5 PPG 5 RPG
Mel Turpin 10 PPG   5 RPG
C. Booser 10 PPG 7.5 RPG
Charles Oakley 10 PPG  8.6 RPG
Glen Davis  4 PPG  3 RPG

Starting to see a pattern? Sullinger isn't untouchable, it's not like he is an all time great in the making.  Right now, I would not value him more than a good journeyman down the road.   All these guys killed it in college too.  College doesn't matter now folks, what he did at OSU is history.  Can he contribute and be a valuable team mate?   Yes!   Is he untradeable and heading to the Hall of Game?   My money is on no.

Got to love our fans though, they over value our guys like no one else.
Trade Sullinger for Mel Turpin.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: LEHGOCELTICS on December 29, 2012, 08:54:36 AM
[Edited.] If trading Sullinger means we can get a more talented player like Cousins, then hell yes we trade. Talent wins in this league bud; it's not about who has the most serviceable role players. 


-------------

Edited.  Please review our rules regarding tone and mutual respect.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Roy H. on December 29, 2012, 09:05:40 AM
I think it depends who you get back.

Yep.  Sullinger is intriguing, but he certainly shouldn't be off the table in trade discussions.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: mctyson on December 29, 2012, 09:09:27 AM
I think it depends who you get back.

You could say that about everyone in the NBA, maybe save Lebron and KD.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 29, 2012, 09:18:30 AM
I think it depends who you get back.

You could say that about everyone in the NBA, maybe save Lebron and KD.

Yeah, you could.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: LB3533 on December 29, 2012, 09:33:20 AM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 29, 2012, 09:44:56 AM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins. 
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Roy H. on December 29, 2012, 09:58:26 AM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Who on December 29, 2012, 10:42:35 AM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.
I think Cousins' value / impact would grow considerably if on a team like the Celtics with (1) a point guard like Rondo to create more high percentage shot attempts for Cousins (2) a defensive anchor like Garnett and a good team defense alongside Cousins.

I think his value (this season) would be comparable to a Varejao or Gortat. I also think Cousins could be more valuable against Miami (specifically) than either of those players because of his offensive game. His ability to score in the paint would cause Miami's small ball lineups all types of problems. I think Cousins would be much more likely to force Miami to go big and matchup against Boston because of the threat he presents offensively.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on December 29, 2012, 10:46:08 AM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.

Oh yeah definitely. I'm just entertaining this trade idea. Id definitely rather get gortat and keep bradley if we can pull that off.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: SHAQATTACK on December 29, 2012, 11:20:37 AM
Love Sully's game , I'd say when it comes to getting COusins makes Sully expendable to a point . Bit of redundancy .

No way I'd trade Sully for Gortat.

He might be part of a deal for Varejao .

SO I think Danny is ok with letting Sully go ....what concerns me is who else is he throwing in to the deal for Cousins.

I would hope it would be some combo BASS/Lee/Green/Barbosa/Wilcox

But you know they will want Melo /AB /or ROndo.

Just can't give up our starting backcourt.  That will make beating the Heat even tuffer


IMO..Having Cousins and AB would really give us a chance in a series with the HEAT.




Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: wdleehi on December 29, 2012, 01:39:45 PM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.


I think he can have a bigger impact if the Celtics force him down low on offense. 


He, more then any other of them, will pull defenses away from the other shooters.  If a guy like Lee can find his shot, Cousins opens up room for him.  He will even likely open a little more room for Pierce and KG. 

More importantly, Cousins in the low post is the type of offensive player that could force the Heat out of a small lineup.



Defensively, yes, he is going to be a project.  But his size and rebounding will be a plus. 
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: More Banners on December 29, 2012, 01:40:52 PM
I'm thinking about Sully, his rebounding grit and smart play (esp. in passing out of the post/swing passes and cuts).  Is his upside Barkleyesque?

I'm not eager to trade anybody who can impact the boards and is smart and young, earning PT over veteran journeymen in his rookie year despite playing for a coach who stresses execution (or used to).

I'm hanging on to Sully unless I get an established allstar.  Trading him for anything else would just be a reshuffling of chairs and counterproductive.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Roy H. on December 29, 2012, 01:43:29 PM
I'm thinking about Sully, his rebounding grit and smart play (esp. in passing out of the post/swing passes and cuts).  Is his upside Barkleyesque?

As in similar to Charles Barkley?

Not even close.  While I appreciate the "overweight and undersized" angle, Barkley had elite talent *and* explosive athleticism.  You can't say the same for Sully.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: hpantazo on December 29, 2012, 01:43:45 PM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.


I think he can have a bigger impact if the Celtics force him down low on offense. 


He, more then any other of them, will pull defenses away from the other shooters.  If a guy like Lee can find his shot, Cousins opens up room for him.  He will even likely open a little more room for Pierce and KG. 

More importantly, Cousins in the low post is the type of offensive player that could force the Heat out of a small lineup.



Defensively, yes, he is going to be a project.  But his size and rebounding will be a plus.

Yes, trading for Cousins is certainly a win now move. Bradley is a 6 ft 3 SG with limited offensive skills. He would help this year, but he won't make us contenders. Cousins is a legit top level big man talent. He would solve our rebounding issues and give us a 2nd powerful low post presence to pair with KG. Also, anytime you have the chance to trade an undersized SG for a top young big man, you do it instantly. Talented big men are very hard to come by in the NBA today.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: More Banners on December 29, 2012, 02:04:10 PM
I'm thinking about Sully, his rebounding grit and smart play (esp. in passing out of the post/swing passes and cuts).  Is his upside Barkleyesque?

As in similar to Charles Barkley?

Not even close.  While I appreciate the "overweight and undersized" angle, Barkley had elite talent *and* explosive athleticism.  You can't say the same for Sully.

Ahem...correct.  I was thinking of the older Barkley, not the superstar-in-his-prime Barkley.  The one that was such a great piece on a team that the only trade up would be for an allstar.

That's sort of how I see Sully.  Unfortunately, we have a few players that might be in that range...  Which means, optimistically, that we might have the pieces for another KG-level trade in the next year or two...

Which still means that, as the OP states, trading Sullinger now would be a mistake.  I think that perhaps next year there'll be an auction on a Bradley/Sullinger trade package as Danny calls the Other 29 trolling for another young star to play with Rondo, preferably a big (I think).
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Celtics4ever on December 29, 2012, 02:09:55 PM
Get real , he could not even hold Barkley's jockstrap.

Barkley averaged 15 PPG and almost 9 RPG as a rookie.  Granted he probably played more minutes but in sports cream usually rises to the top.   Therefore, Sully would get more minutes if he deserved them.   He isn't chopped liver but he is good journeymen material.  He projects better than Big Baby but Davis is not a star keep in mind, at least not on a good team.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Who on December 29, 2012, 05:09:29 PM
I personally do not feel that Danny Ainge thinks Sullinger is going to be a star. Jared is definitely not untradeable.

THIS ^ He has potential to be a star but we are in win RIGHT NOW mode. Sullinger is not only tradeable, but i think danny won't have much issue shipping him for the right guy. I don't think he will even hesitate to trade him for a guy like cousins.

I wonder, is Cousins a "win now" move?  If our goal is to win in the immediate future, would we be better off pursuing a guy like Gortat, and perhaps keeping Avery Bradley?

I think a move for Cousins would probably be more for the future than the present, as the team would be committing to a Rondo / Cousins core.  I think that Avery Bradley is an important "win now" piece, but he'd almsot certainly have to be traded.


I think he can have a bigger impact if the Celtics force him down low on offense. 


He, more then any other of them, will pull defenses away from the other shooters.  If a guy like Lee can find his shot, Cousins opens up room for him.  He will even likely open a little more room for Pierce and KG. 

More importantly, Cousins in the low post is the type of offensive player that could force the Heat out of a small lineup.



Defensively, yes, he is going to be a project.  But his size and rebounding will be a plus.
Cousins would give Boston another very strong passing big man offensively. Both out of the low post and high post. Which in addition to Cousins' post scoring would make Boston's offense much more versatile. I don't think we've had a big man who is as strong a passer as Cousins is alongside KG since KG has been here. A big plus to have two such talented passing bigs.

Cousins would instantly be Boston's 2nd best defensive big (well 3rd if you include Collins but Collins shouldn't play regular minutes). Cousins is a good defensive upgrade over Bass, Sully and Wilcox. His physical size at 6-11 270lbs and mobility gives Cousins a good presence in the paint and better enables to matchup against physically talented NBA players unlike Boston's current mix of power forwards (Bass, Sully, Wilcox).

Cousins may not be a plus defensive big man yet but he is most definitely an upgrade over the guys Boston has been trotting out there so far this year.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: KGs Knee on December 29, 2012, 05:49:21 PM
Sullinger is almost the perfect type of player to trade, although it might be a little early to get full value for him.

Sullinger's ceiling is no more than solid, role playing starter.  If he can help bring you near all-star level talent (as a piece of a larger deal), you jump on the opportunity.

I'd even give up Bradley (reluctantly) too, for an potential all-star level big.  I'll never understand why people don't get that you have to give up something to get something.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: lightspeed5 on December 29, 2012, 06:02:18 PM
gortat isnt good enough to put a team over the top for a championship.

cousins on the otherhand averages 18/11

You do the math.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Bingbangbarros on December 29, 2012, 06:20:29 PM
I think I remember a post just like this one years ago about a guy named Ryan Gomes. Lets hope that doesn't happen to Sully.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: hpantazo on December 29, 2012, 06:24:12 PM
Sullinger is almost the perfect type of player to trade, although it might be a little early to get full value for him.

Sullinger's ceiling is no more than solid, role playing starter.  If he can help bring you near all-star level talent (as a piece of a larger deal), you jump on the opportunity.

I'd even give up Bradley (reluctantly) too, for an potential all-star level big.  I'll never understand why people don't get that you have to give up something to get something.

Yea, I can't stop laughing at the posts saying that the Kings should be happy to trade us Cousins for Bass, Lee and Melo. Why the heck would they want those players for an all-star big man? Bass and Lee are career bench players who the kings would really have no use for.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Roy H. on December 29, 2012, 06:25:44 PM
gortat isnt good enough to put a team over the top for a championship.

cousins on the otherhand averages 18/11

You do the math.

Well, he averages 16.5 / 9.5, but who's counting? ;)

Cousins is much more talented, but there's an argument to be made that 11.4 points on 9.2 shot attempts is just as valuable (if not moreso) as 16.5 points on 14.7 shot attempts. 

Heck, Gortat is coming off a 15.4 / 10 season himself.  He'd be a big addition here, even if Cousins is a more attractive player.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: CoachBo on December 29, 2012, 06:38:52 PM
Sullinger is almost the perfect type of player to trade, although it might be a little early to get full value for him.

Sullinger's ceiling is no more than solid, role playing starter.  If he can help bring you near all-star level talent (as a piece of a larger deal), you jump on the opportunity.

I'd even give up Bradley (reluctantly) too, for an potential all-star level big.  I'll never understand why people don't get that you have to give up something to get something.

Yea, I can't stop laughing at the posts saying that the Kings should be happy to trade us Cousins for Bass, Lee and Melo. Why the heck would they want those players for an all-star big man? Bass and Lee are career bench players who the kings would really have no use for.
This is exactly correct.

I'd be happy to trade Bradley and Sullinger, along with pieces, for Cousins and pieces.

It is a deal that simply cannot be turned down if Danny has any designs on this season - and the future. Bradley and Sullinger aren't going to anchor this franchise in three years, posters on this blog aside.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Bosstown on December 29, 2012, 07:24:27 PM
Sullinger is almost the perfect type of player to trade, although it might be a little early to get full value for him.

Sullinger's ceiling is no more than solid, role playing starter.  If he can help bring you near all-star level talent (as a piece of a larger deal), you jump on the opportunity.

I'd even give up Bradley (reluctantly) too, for an potential all-star level big.  I'll never understand why people don't get that you have to give up something to get something.

Yea, I can't stop laughing at the posts saying that the Kings should be happy to trade us Cousins for Bass, Lee and Melo. Why the heck would they want those players for an all-star big man? Bass and Lee are career bench players who the kings would really have no use for.
This is exactly correct.

I'd be happy to trade Bradley and Sullinger, along with pieces, for Cousins and pieces.

It is a deal that simply cannot be turned down if Danny has any designs on this season - and the future. Bradley and Sullinger aren't going to anchor this franchise in three years, posters on this blog aside.

I don't understand why people fall in love with players who have obvious flaws in their game. Trade players when their value is high, Sully's is high, Avery's will be high...but neither of these guys are going to deliver a championship this year. I seriously doubt either one will be more then a role player/fringe starter in their NBA careers. If you have a chance to trade these guys for a potential all-star in DMC you DO IT!

I don't care about the whole "knucklehead" tag, winning changes people. Look at Rasheed, JR Smith this year, Andray Blatche, Zach Randolph...ect All of those guys were deemed as "trouble makers". Now they're on winning teams and all of that chatter has stopped. Demarcus wasn't causing problems in UK, he loved Calipari, and got drafted in a frankly awful, leaderless situation. You put him on this team and he will become a All-Star within 2 years. He also is our only shot at a championship this year, not to mention a team with Rondo and Cousins is a great start for our future. Not to mention, he has to realize that if he doesn't make it work in Boston, his professional basketball career in the NBA might be cut short.

If we have to give up AB, and Sully for this kid, we do it. Because Danny chose to run it back for another shot at a chip. So if Cousin's is available, we are going to make a serious run at him and NO ONE is untouchable outside of PP, Rondo, and KG. No one.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: Bankshot on December 29, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
I agree it depends who we are getting back not like we are trading Joe Larry Bird here.

Sample of rookie stats:

Bird 21 PPG 10 RPG
Pierce 16.5 PPG  6 RPG
Moses Malone 18 PPG 10 RPG
Sullinger 5 PPG 5 RPG
Mel Turpin 10 PPG   5 RPG
C. Booser 10 PPG 7.5 RPG
Charles Oakley 10 PPG  8.6 RPG
Glen Davis  4 PPG  3 RPG

Starting to see a pattern? Sullinger isn't untouchable, it's not like he is an all time great in the making.  Right now, I would not value him more than a good journeyman down the road.   All these guys killed it in college too.  College doesn't matter now folks, what he did at OSU is history.  Can he contribute and be a valuable team mate?   Yes!   Is he untradeable and heading to the Hall of Game?   My money is on no.

Got to love our fans though, they over value our guys like no one else.

Are these comparisons really fair?  Some of these players were starters and some were bench players as rookies.  You can't compare starter numbers to bench numbers.
Title: Re: Trading J Sullinger now would be a big mistake
Post by: TripleOT on December 29, 2012, 08:37:33 PM
Like Danny Ainge, I'm a talent Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., but if I have a decision to get Gortat or Cousins right now, I take Gortat.  First, he's ready to go ASAP, and considering the PP/KG window, that's a big plus.  Second, he's the safer bet. 

Even if Cousins plays good soldier the rest of the year in Boston and plays solid ball, do you want to be the team that gives him a four year max  or near max deal?

If Boston can get Gortat with Melo and Sully as the young players heading to Phoenix, and can't get Cousins without throwing in AB too, it's a no brainer to me.  I go with the safe choice in Gortat.