Simmons Stock at All-Time Low / 3-Way Trade W/GSW & PHI

[michigan adam]

The equivalent of 3 1sts and 2 seconds for wisemen...no thanks

Two of the three firsts are already sunk costs and not exactly panning out, although there is still some hope.

If we could keep Horford here the next 2-3 years and he taps into his inner Tom Brady, he’ll be solid depth off the bench with a front court of Tatum, Wiseman and Timelord. That’s a solid foursome.

Are they fully sunk costs? Are we say neismith is a sunk cost? At 21?

At this point they have not shown they are worthy of a future first round pick, so I’m not exactly valuing them at #14 anymore. That said, I’m still hopeful they can develop into starters in the future, and obviously Nesmith has show more NBA capability than Langford. Obviously I much prefer the odds of Wiseman developing into a solid starter, so I’d toss them both, a non-lottery first and a couple seconds to ensure we are set at center for years to come (if Timelord continues to be injured, we’ve got Wiseman; if Wiseman does not pan out, we’ve still got Timelord…definitely a big fan of rebounds and would love to see both pan out, making us exceptional on the glass).

Wiseman is no guarantee either. I think you are a first and a second too rich for my blood.

[GreenlyGreeny]

The equivalent of 3 1sts and 2 seconds for wisemen...no thanks

Two of the three firsts are already sunk costs and not exactly panning out, although there is still some hope.

If we could keep Horford here the next 2-3 years and he taps into his inner Tom Brady, he’ll be solid depth off the bench with a front court of Tatum, Wiseman and Timelord. That’s a solid foursome.

Are they fully sunk costs? Are we say neismith is a sunk cost? At 21?

At this point they have not shown they are worthy of a future first round pick, so I’m not exactly valuing them at #14 anymore. That said, I’m still hopeful they can develop into starters in the future, and obviously Nesmith has show more NBA capability than Langford. Obviously I much prefer the odds of Wiseman developing into a solid starter, so I’d toss them both, a non-lottery first and a couple seconds to ensure we are set at center for years to come (if Timelord continues to be injured, we’ve got Wiseman; if Wiseman does not pan out, we’ve still got Timelord…definitely a big fan of rebounds and would love to see both pan out, making us exceptional on the glass).

Wiseman is no guarantee either. I think you are a first and a second too rich for my blood.

Wiseman is definitely no guarantee, but he was the second overall pick last year. That’s going to cost.

[Moranis]

Sixers reportedly asked the Blazers for McCollum, 3 1st's, and 3 pick swaps.  I wouldn't do that if I was Portland, but I might if it was 2 and 2 instead of 3 and 3.  Portland needs to do something and that could work for them, and they'd have a lot of options to go big or small.  They would give it a real shot with Lillard and then could build around Simmons long term.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Sixers reportedly asked the Blazers for McCollum, 3 1st's, and 3 pick swaps.  I wouldn't do that if I was Portland, but I might if it was 2 and 2 instead of 3 and 3.  Portland needs to do something and that could work for them, and they'd have a lot of options to go big or small.  They would give it a real shot with Lillard and then could build around Simmons long term.

Maybe not the whole game, but running Simmons at C for 15 minutes a night would result in some pretty difficult to defend actions with Lillard and Simmons pick and roll with Covington on the opposite wing, and Nance and Powell in the corners

[Moranis]

Sixers reportedly asked the Blazers for McCollum, 3 1st's, and 3 pick swaps.  I wouldn't do that if I was Portland, but I might if it was 2 and 2 instead of 3 and 3.  Portland needs to do something and that could work for them, and they'd have a lot of options to go big or small.  They would give it a real shot with Lillard and then could build around Simmons long term.

Maybe not the whole game, but running Simmons at C for 15 minutes a night would result in some pretty difficult to defend actions with Lillard and Simmons pick and roll with Covington on the opposite wing, and Nance and Powell in the corners

yep and you probably have Nance defens the opposing center.  Could have Simon's out there instead of RoCo as well, or they could go huge with a Nurkic, Simmons, Nance lineup.  Simmons in Portland makes a lot sense especially if it costs them onky McCollum and future picks (which I assume Philly would use in win now type trades)

[gouki88]

Sixers reportedly asked the Blazers for McCollum, 3 1st's, and 3 pick swaps.  I wouldn't do that if I was Portland, but I might if it was 2 and 2 instead of 3 and 3.  Portland needs to do something and that could work for them, and they'd have a lot of options to go big or small.  They would give it a real shot with Lillard and then could build around Simmons long term.

Maybe not the whole game, but running Simmons at C for 15 minutes a night would result in some pretty difficult to defend actions with Lillard and Simmons pick and roll with Covington on the opposite wing, and Nance and Powell in the corners

yep and you probably have Nance defens the opposing center.  Could have Simon's out there instead of RoCo as well, or they could go huge with a Nurkic, Simmons, Nance lineup.  Simmons in Portland makes a lot sense especially if it costs them onky McCollum and future picks (which I assume Philly would use in win now type trades)

Those Portland picks would probably be in the 24-30 if Portland could play to its potential. Would be a fringe title contender in my book with Simmons instead of McCollum - such a better fit.

[Moranis]

Sixers reportedly asked the Blazers for McCollum, 3 1st's, and 3 pick swaps.  I wouldn't do that if I was Portland, but I might if it was 2 and 2 instead of 3 and 3.  Portland needs to do something and that could work for them, and they'd have a lot of options to go big or small.  They would give it a real shot with Lillard and then could build around Simmons long term.

Maybe not the whole game, but running Simmons at C for 15 minutes a night would result in some pretty difficult to defend actions with Lillard and Simmons pick and roll with Covington on the opposite wing, and Nance and Powell in the corners

yep and you probably have Nance defens the opposing center.  Could have Simon's out there instead of RoCo as well, or they could go huge with a Nurkic, Simmons, Nance lineup.  Simmons in Portland makes a lot sense especially if it costs them onky McCollum and future picks (which I assume Philly would use in win now type trades)

Those Portland picks would probably be in the 24-30 if Portland could play to its potential. Would be a fringe title contender in my book with Simmons instead of McCollum - such a better fit.

That is why if it really is just McCollum and future picks, Portland has to be thinking about it.  I wouldn't want to give up a first round pick 4 or 5 years in the future though without some protection because once Lillard gets old, Portland could fall off a cliff.

[nickagneta]

Given that the last we saw of Simmons he was choking away a playoff game because he didn't have the competitive spirit or mental toughness to dunk a ball, couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet and was basically unplayable in tight 4th quarters because he hit FTs at a little over 30% and couple that with a lack of desire to put work in with real professional shooting coaches and the fact he is no better now than when he was in college, if I'm Portland, I wouldn't offer more than just McCollum, and even then, I'm not sure I even do that.

[gouki88]

Given that the last we saw of Simmons he was choking away a playoff game because he didn't have the competitive spirit or mental toughness to dunk a ball, couldn't make a shot outside of 5 feet and was basically unplayable in tight 4th quarters because he hit FTs at a little over 30% and couple that with a lack of desire to put work in with real professional shooting coaches and the fact he is no better now than when he was in college, if I'm Portland, I wouldn't offer more than just McCollum, and even then, I'm not sure I even do that.

I definitely do, and I'm one of the more anti-Simmons posters around here. Simmons' weaknesses would be hidden in Portland well, and McCollum is quite redundant there

[SHAQATTACK]

Simmons value is all based on a hope , a hope he doesn’t become another flat earther like you know who for the rest of his career.

[Vermont Green]

I think Philly is continuing to way overplay their hand with Simmons.  I feel if they could get McCollum straight up, they should take it.  The longer this goes with Simmons sitting out, the worse this is going to get for Philly.  At this point, if I was POR, it is not a given that I would want Simmons at all.  I am not sure of Nurkic's health status but he can stay on the court and give the 15/10 like he did for several years past, they are really good.  Sure, none of Lillard, McCollum, Powell are great defenders but I don't see a real natural fit for Simmons.  I don't think Simmons is the guy to be a PG on a team like that.

[liam]

I think Philly is continuing to way overplay their hand with Simmons.  I feel if they could get McCollum straight up, they should take it.  The longer this goes with Simmons sitting out, the worse this is going to get for Philly.  At this point, if I was POR, it is not a given that I would want Simmons at all.  I am not sure of Nurkic's health status but he can stay on the court and give the 15/10 like he did for several years past, they are really good.  Sure, none of Lillard, McCollum, Powell are great defenders but I don't see a real natural fit for Simmons.  I don't think Simmons is the guy to be a PG on a team like that.

I think his best fit is Houston. I'm not sure if he fits on all teams. A team really needs to be built for him.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Harden is clearly PO’d at Kyrie. Can see this happening at this point:

Simmons and a filler to LA
Kyrie to Philly
Westbrook (and LA picks) to Brooklyn

Perhaps LeBron forces Kyrie to LA instead, but doubt it as Kyrie may carry out his threat to retire. Going to Philly does not really uproot his life, gets him paid (highly doubt he wants to forgo tens of millions) and, frankly, it’s probably a better situation for him compared to being the third wheel to KD and Harden. It would certainly add to our rivalry with the 76ers. Every team and player should walk away happier than they were before the trade (Westbrook might be upset at first, but not if he’s friends with KD and Harden from their early years together in OKC).

[Moranis]

Harden is clearly PO’d at Kyrie. Can see this happening at this point:

Simmons and a filler to LA
Kyrie to Philly
Westbrook (and LA picks) to Brooklyn

Perhaps LeBron forces Kyrie to LA instead, but doubt it as Kyrie may carry out his threat to retire. Going to Philly does not really uproot his life, gets him paid (highly doubt he wants to forgo tens of millions) and, frankly, it’s probably a better situation for him compared to being the third wheel to KD and Harden. It would certainly add to our rivalry with the 76ers. Every team and player should walk away happier than they were before the trade (Westbrook might be upset at first, but not if he’s friends with KD and Harden from their early years together in OKC).

for all the problems that Simmons and Westbrook have, they have both have significantly more value than Irving at this point.  And there is no way Brooklyn would acquire Westbrook.  none at all.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Doubt Simmons can yield anything like in the OP. Let’s say this drags on into the new year and Ben lists a few teams he’d be willing to go to with Boston on the list. Let’s say both the Celtics and 76ers need to dramatically mix it up. Thoughts on this:

Four simultaneous trades:

BOS In: Simmons
PHI In: Schröder, Nesmith, Langford, Richardson, Juancho, Parker, 2022 1st swap, 2023 1st, 2024 1st swap, 2025 1st (two protected firsts and two swaps so Philly can save face, especially when you consider the three players below they’d be giving to us for TPEs)

BOS In: Seth Curry
PHI In: BOS TPE

BOS In: Danny Green
PHI In: BOS TPE

BOS In: Paul Reed
PHI In: BOS TPE

Our shook-up roster:

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Curry
Tatum/Green/Hauser
Simmons/Williams/Reed
Horford/Timelord/Kanter/Fernando

We’d have our Big 3 all in their mid-20s (with Simmons as our Point Forward), solid vets who can take turns rising up as the fourth option (Horford, Smart, Green, Curry), and three promising young guys (Timelord, Pritchard, and Reed).

Heading into the off-season we’d still have a 2022 1st and ten solid players below, including perhaps Begarin and GWill, so we’d just need to add 1-2 ring-chasing vets and be on our way:

Smart/Pritchard
Brown/Curry
Tatum/Green/Maybe Begarin
Simmons/Reed/Maybe G. Williams
Horford/Timelord

2022 1st (Hopefully another wing)
2022 2nd (Draft-and-stash)