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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: badshar on November 23, 2012, 02:38:38 PM

Title: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: badshar on November 23, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Quote
Sources have confirmed that the Celtics prepare to send Avery Bradley, Fab Melo and draft picks to the Suns for Marcin Gortat. Waiting to hear back if the Suns will accept the deal.
SRC: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=377600805662078&set=a.353036154785210.88414.353025171452975&type=1

Noooooooooooooooooooo NOT BRADLEY!!!!!!! NOOOOOO!

Another problem this raises is that does this mean KG will move back to PF? If yes, then will both Bass and Sullinger come off the bench?

Another Source: http://clnsradio.com/2012/11/23/celtics-to-propose-trade-for-marcin-gortat/

Another Source: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&ei=UNKvUPnNING90QHQpIGAAw&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://nba.przegladsportowy.pl/Koszykowka-NBA-Marcin-Gortat-a-Alvin-Gentry,artykul,152021,1,299.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D921&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&u=http://nba.przegladsportowy.pl/Koszykowka-NBA-Marcin-Gortat-a-Alvin-Gentry,artykul,152021,1,299.html&usg=ALkJrhikm5Y-RNiPKU2OPxZW64cROPybBw
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 02:39:42 PM
Post the link. WHere is it from?
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: badshar on November 23, 2012, 02:40:23 PM
Post the link. WHere is it from?

I edited and posted it.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: InfiniteMH on November 23, 2012, 02:41:08 PM
http://clnsradio.com/2012/11/23/celtics-to-propose-trade-for-marcin-gortat/

No proposal fully drawn yet but the links suggest Bradley and Melo + picks

Bradley no :(
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: BleedGreen1989 on November 23, 2012, 02:43:27 PM
Don't like it..pretty sure the salaries don't work either
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: alajet on November 23, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
It was clear from the start that we had no pieces to lure Phoenix into this trade without Bradley.
Bradley isn't a superstar or anywhere near that caliber, but for the Suns, he'll be a good complementary piece and that's the sole reason they are going to show a tendency to accept this offer and of course, draft picks are always valuable for a team that's going through a rebuilding process.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: PierceMVP08 on November 23, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Well the facebook link doesnt seem to be a legit source and the CLNS article only speculates that Bradley would be involved.  No sources named.  I'll hold off on judgment until more news is made available.

Surely, these must be some tense times for AB.  Would hate to see him lose his spot on account of an injury.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: MJohnnyboy on November 23, 2012, 02:44:32 PM
This can't be possible. Bradley and Melo is not enough money for Gortat. Plus its fb. Anyone can say anything on fb.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: KGs Knee on November 23, 2012, 02:44:45 PM
No way salaries work.  Would rather not see Bradley go, but we need a Center.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 02:49:05 PM
So this is likely much ado about nothing.

No legitimate sources yet. We have a polish newspaper saying the Celtics *MIGHT* be looking to acquire Gortat, which gets refernced by a blog, which gets referenced by a internet radio site. Also, somehow some guy's facebook page got in on it.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 02:59:08 PM
I think this one is a false alarm, people. Twitter ain't sayin nothin.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:00:47 PM
If this is the case, then my money is on Bass being the other piece to make the salaries work. We need to keep Lee if we trade Bradley, and then it's either Bass or Green to match salaries. We need Green as our backup 3 for Pierce, but Sullinger can easily take over for Bass as the backup 4 once KG slides to the starting 4 spot. I can see this trade going down, but it would have to be after mid-january I think until we can trade any one of Bass, Green, or Lee.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 23, 2012, 03:02:42 PM
I'm surprised we can even get Gortat for Bradley.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: BballTim on November 23, 2012, 03:04:31 PM
I think this one is a false alarm, people. Twitter ain't sayin nothin.

  It's a sad state of affairs when we look to twitter to validate trade rumors.

  But here we are.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: gpap on November 23, 2012, 03:05:50 PM
I think this would be a great move. The Celtics clearly need a big right now.

I think Sully will end up being a serviceable player but right now he's very green and I've always been a fan of Gortat's game. A big who can rebound and score, what's there not to like?

As for Avery Bradley, ditto with Sully. Talented player, however seems to be a bit injury prone. Also, if you can fetch a decent big for a decent 2 guard, who have to do it.

That said, I am finding it hard to believe this is all it would take to land Gortat.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: OsirusCeltics on November 23, 2012, 03:06:44 PM
http://clnsradio.com/2012/11/23/celtics-to-propose-trade-for-marcin-gortat/

No proposal fully drawn yet but the links suggest Bradley and Melo + picks

Bradley no :(

The same feeling I have, why Bradley?

Just Trade Bass and Lee!!!
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: LarBrd33 on November 23, 2012, 03:08:01 PM
DOesn't Bradley + Melo = 2.8 million.... Gortat makes 7.7 million... wut

Even if you included Sully it wouldn't work.  Dumb trade rumor is dumb.  I'm sure we'll make some trade offers eventually (possibly involving Bradley if he has any trade value at all... which he probably doesn't), but those aren't going to happen until Dec 15th and Jan 15th when our larger contracts become tradeable.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 23, 2012, 03:08:20 PM
Not buying it. Salaries not even close to matching an why would the suns take that trade.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: sofutomygaha on November 23, 2012, 03:14:49 PM
TP to LarBrd33. I am repeating for emphasis-

There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 03:15:56 PM
I apologize if this has already been pointed out, but-


There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Annnnd, we're up to 'likely false'.

Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Shad0wman on November 23, 2012, 03:23:07 PM
Sounds just like DA trading away the ONE dude on your team that plays the game like his life depends on it. It does!
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:29:26 PM
I apologize if this has already been pointed out, but-


There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Annnnd, we're up to 'likely false'.

none of these points indicate at all that this rumor is false. I'm pretty confident it's true. Of course the salaries don't match, but there have been many, many rumored trades based on players with non-matching salaries. The teams start with these as a basis and then fill in the rest (Bass) to make salaries match. This always happens. Second, of course we can't trade Bass, Green, or Lee yet, as I mentioned before, but it makes sense to start serious trade discussions now, Dec. 15th is not very far away folks.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 03:32:29 PM
I apologize if this has already been pointed out, but-


There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Annnnd, we're up to 'likely false'.

none of these points indicate at all that this rumor is false. I'm pretty confident it's true. Of course the salaries don't match, but there have been many, many rumored trades based on players with non-matching salaries. The teams start with these as a basis and then fill in the rest (Bass) to make salaries match. This always happens. Second, of course we can't trade Bass, Green, or Lee yet, as I mentioned before, but it makes sense to start serious trade discussions now, Dec. 15th is not very far away folks.

Point: Not a single legitimate source

Point: No trade capable until Dec 15th

Either one of those makes the alleged 'offer' highly unlikely, or at the very best preliminary negotiations.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: scaryjerry on November 23, 2012, 03:35:51 PM
:(
Epic fail if this happens...give them lee
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: scaryjerry on November 23, 2012, 03:38:51 PM
I'm surprised we can even get Gortat for Bradley.

Of course you would be...but Jeff green has been fine and lee is our best guard.  ::)
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: pearljammer10 on November 23, 2012, 03:39:08 PM
This would be a highway robbery if we could make that deal. Salaries don't work so it wouldn't be able to happen.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:41:30 PM
I apologize if this has already been pointed out, but-


There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Annnnd, we're up to 'likely false'.

none of these points indicate at all that this rumor is false. I'm pretty confident it's true. Of course the salaries don't match, but there have been many, many rumored trades based on players with non-matching salaries. The teams start with these as a basis and then fill in the rest (Bass) to make salaries match. This always happens. Second, of course we can't trade Bass, Green, or Lee yet, as I mentioned before, but it makes sense to start serious trade discussions now, Dec. 15th is not very far away folks.

Point: Not a single legitimate source

Point: No trade capable until Dec 15th

Either one of those makes the alleged 'offer' highly unlikely, or at the very best preliminary negotiations.

I'm pretty convinced this is a legit offer with Bradley, Melo, and picks for Gortat as the foundation, and the teams have a few weeks to work out the salary matching pieces, since the 15th of december is almost here. This is how trades usually work anyways. This is likely legit. Too many reports and too many details for it to be complete speculation.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: scaryjerry on November 23, 2012, 03:41:58 PM
TP to LarBrd33. I am repeating for emphasis-

There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Rondo or pierce?hahaha no thanks. I don't even want to give up Bradley ...rondo for gortat would be the dumbest move in the history of the celtics
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
I apologize if this has already been pointed out, but-


There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Annnnd, we're up to 'likely false'.

none of these points indicate at all that this rumor is false. I'm pretty confident it's true. Of course the salaries don't match, but there have been many, many rumored trades based on players with non-matching salaries. The teams start with these as a basis and then fill in the rest (Bass) to make salaries match. This always happens. Second, of course we can't trade Bass, Green, or Lee yet, as I mentioned before, but it makes sense to start serious trade discussions now, Dec. 15th is not very far away folks.

Point: Not a single legitimate source

Point: No trade capable until Dec 15th

Either one of those makes the alleged 'offer' highly unlikely, or at the very best preliminary negotiations.

I'm pretty convinced this is a legit offer with Bradley, Melo, and picks for Gortat as the foundation, and the teams have a few weeks to work out the salary matching pieces, since the 15th of december is almost here. This is how trades usually work anyways. This is likely legit. Too many reports and too many details for it to be complete speculation.

The trick is to see how many of the reports are independent. For me, it looks like there are maybe 1 or 2 out there of the Celtics having interest. The actual 'offer' looks like to me (working with the sources I've seen) to be complete speculation.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:44:19 PM
TP to LarBrd33. I am repeating for emphasis-

There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

And I'm repeating for emphasis: Dec 15th is just a few weeks away! Of course negotiations for a trade would be taking place already. This in no way at all means that the report is false, if anything it makes perfect sense that it's true.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:45:22 PM
TP to LarBrd33. I am repeating for emphasis-

There is no possible Gortat trade before December 15th without Rondo or Pierce being in the deal.


Don't mistake this for an opinion- the trade rules make it a literal impossibility.

Rondo or pierce?hahaha no thanks. I don't even want to give up Bradley ...rondo for gortat would be the dumbest move in the history of the celtics

I don't think he meant Rondo or Pierce to be traded, just that any trade would have to take place after Dec. 15th, which is not too far away.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: cman88 on November 23, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:50:45 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: cman88 on November 23, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.

thus far, injured ray allen >> Courtney Lee sadly
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 03:55:10 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.

thus far, injured ray allen >> Courtney Lee sadly

LOL. Yea, so far this year an old, hobbled Ray was better than Courtney Lee. I'm sure Lee will catch up once he gets the defensive sets though.
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2012, 04:03:17 PM
No way salaries work.  Would rather not see Bradley go, but we need a Center.

how abouit keep our defensive pest bradley and trade melo with Lee and Green???

Then we have bass, Sully, JET, barbosa and wilcox coming off the bench. only problem is a guy to back up The Truth. still a strong bench it would seem. unless we can put bass at the 3 and sully at the 4 and wilcox at the 5.

put KG back to the 4. Gortat starts at the 5.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: alley oop on November 23, 2012, 04:04:09 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.

Wade had a compromised knee.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2012, 04:06:22 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.

Wade had a compromised knee.

and we had PP, KG, RA playing hurt and no wilcox, green, bradley etc.

bottom line is every fool i spoke with predicted the cheat in 4. so much for that!
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 04:07:25 PM
the salaries dont work at all...no way this is a true rumor..until i hear it from Woj Im calling false.

now if you Did Lee(5million), Melo and picks it would be alot closer.

considering how BAD defensively our SG's are I would be hesitant to trade bradley...this wont fix our problem of dribble penetration

you fix rebounding potentially. But you are stuck with a sieve defensively at SG

We made it to within 5 minutes of the NBA finals last year with a legit "sieve" at SG, Ray Allen, so I'd take our chances with Lee at that position.

Wade had a compromised knee.

Wade's not much healthier this year either, but Dwight Howard is.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 23, 2012, 04:13:14 PM
And Bosh was hurt and Pierce was hurt and blah and blah and blah...

My question remains, aside from the fact that the earliest trade that can be completed is 3 weeks away, what legitimate reasons are there to believe a rumor that I haven't seen pronounced anywhere that could be seen as legitimate. CLNS is repeating what they read on an American basketball blog (which is not a bad source, but its not an actual 'source'), who quoted a European basketball blog. The American blog in question stated the 'offer' which is complete and utter speculation:

Quote
The “Polish Hammer” stands under 6’11, but is averaging 11 points and nine boards a game for the Phoenix Suns. It’s only speculation at this point on who the Celtics would trade for the five-year veteran, but it would most likely have to include a young piece (Avery Bradley or Courtney Lee) and a big (Brandon Bass or Fab Melo).

Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: TA9 on November 23, 2012, 04:23:07 PM
Sorry, even though we need a center we just cant let Bradley go.
This move will come back and haunt us until the day Avery retires from the NBA. This guy will end up as the best on ball defender ever.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 04:26:03 PM
Sorry, even though we need a center we just cant let Bradley go.
This move will come back and haunt us until the day Avery retires from the NBA. This guy will end up as the best on ball defender ever.

I think the day Bradley retires will unfortunately come a lot sooner than most people think, considering his injury history and his physically demanding style of play.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Eddie20 on November 23, 2012, 04:28:15 PM
Sorry, even though we need a center we just cant let Bradley go.
This move will come back and haunt us until the day Avery retires from the NBA. This guy will end up as the best on ball defender ever.

Bold statement. I'm sure Cooper, Jordan, etc. would have something to say about it.

I love Bradley, but I would love him much more if he had prototypical SG size. As great as a defender as he is, bigger guards can still shoot over him. That'll never change.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Boston Garden Leprechaun on November 23, 2012, 04:31:46 PM
And Bosh was hurt and Pierce was hurt and blah and blah and blah...

My question remains, aside from the fact that the earliest trade that can be completed is 3 weeks away, what legitimate reasons are there to believe a rumor that I haven't seen pronounced anywhere that could be seen as legitimate. CLNS is repeating what they read on an American basketball blog (which is not a bad source, but its not an actual 'source'), who quoted a European basketball blog. The American blog in question stated the 'offer' which is complete and utter speculation:

Quote
The “Polish Hammer” stands under 6’11, but is averaging 11 points and nine boards a game for the Phoenix Suns. It’s only speculation at this point on who the Celtics would trade for the five-year veteran, but it would most likely have to include a young piece (Avery Bradley or Courtney Lee) and a big (Brandon Bass or Fab Melo).

wow, so the dude does not even have KG height. more like wilcox height? shows how bad wilcox is huh? or does it?
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Professor of Rondology on November 23, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
IMO, the only offers that Phoenix would consider are...

Bass + Bradley + Melo + Picks
OR
Sullinger + Melo + Lee + Picks

I'd be sad to see Bradley or Sully traded, but we can't get Gortat without giving up an asset or two.   

This rumor seems like total BS, but I would be shocked if Danny wasn't already in talks with Phoenix.  Gortat is an excellent defender, a solid rebounder, and Rondo-Gortat pick-and-rolls would be a thing of beauty.  I think that's worth giving up Bradley or Sullinger.  I'll sacrifice future potential for a better shot at Banner 18.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 04:42:04 PM
IMO, the only offers that Phoenix would consider are...

Bass + Bradley + Melo + Picks
OR
Sullinger + Melo + Lee + Picks

I'd be sad to see Bradley or Sully traded, but we can't get Gortat without giving up an asset or two.   

This rumor seems like total BS, but I would be shocked if Danny wasn't already in talks with Phoenix.  Gortat is an excellent defender, a solid rebounder, and Rondo-Gortat pick-and-rolls would be a thing of beauty.  I think that's worth giving up Bradley or Sullinger.  I'll sacrifice future potential for a better shot at Banner 18.

I agree, those are the only two offers I would see the Suns actually considering. In either case we lose a very good young player (Sullinger or Bradley), but we have to give up one of them if we really want a good big man.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: snowball on November 23, 2012, 05:01:08 PM
Gortat is an excellent center
Boston needs a Center who can play defense
badly !

Rondo, KG, Paul are the only players I would
not trade for him.
Everyone else is expendable
unless you really like other teams scoring
95+ per night on us.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: vgulab on November 23, 2012, 05:05:12 PM
Phoenix would probably not want Sullinger. They could draft him like many others teams which passed him. I think they would want a SG for sure Bradley/Lee, they will gamble on Melo's potential so they will take him. They will not take J.Green and his contract because of Beasley and Dudley plus want to save money . But they will take Bass or Wilcox. Best for Celtics would probably be Lee,Melo,Wilcox plus first round pick
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: csfansince60s on November 23, 2012, 05:11:12 PM
Sarver is one cheap owner.

He will want two of Bradley/Sully/Melo, as they are all on rookie deals and will probably want an expiring and picks.

Since this has to be done sooner, rather than later, Courtney Lee will be the sacrificial lamb (since his contract is the first of Green/Bass/Lee that can be traded.}

Lee's 4 year $5mil may be acceptable to Sarver, but I can see him demanding a third team be involved to get him an expiring.

Also, everyone assumes that it is Bradley who will be demanded by Sarver. I'm not so sure that Bradley's trade value due to the question marks about his health is as high around the league as it is on this blog.

I can see Sarver taking Sully/Melo plus Lee/expiring from 3rd team and picks.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: arctic 3.0 on November 23, 2012, 06:20:18 PM
Call me stupid but I'd rather not trade melo. His potential is to high and I'd love to see him develop under kg for a few years. Phx can have their pick off lee, bass, sully and if all else fails Bradley.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: arctic 3.0 on November 23, 2012, 06:24:30 PM
Red claws first game is tonight. I'll be flipping back and forth.aybe I'll change my mind about mello after watching him but for now I'll stick with the above statement.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: RyNye on November 23, 2012, 06:36:11 PM
You really think Melo's upside is bigger than Sully's?
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: hpantazo on November 23, 2012, 06:38:09 PM
You really think Melo's upside is bigger than Sully's?

not even close. Melo will be lucky to be a Perkins type, Sully's ceiling is an all-star
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 23, 2012, 06:50:22 PM
Call me stupid but I'd rather not trade melo. His potential is to high and I'd love to see him develop under kg for a few years. Phx can have their pick off lee, bass, sully and if all else fails Bradley.

You would rather trade sully and bradley before you trade melo? Both sully and bradley have more potential than melo.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: badshar on November 23, 2012, 06:51:53 PM
You really think Melo's upside is bigger than Sully's?

not even close. Melo will be lucky to be a Perkins type, Sully's ceiling is an all-star
You guys really underrate and underestimate Melo. I won't be surprised if we call him up and HE becomes the reason we win some games.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Eddie20 on November 23, 2012, 07:06:39 PM
You really think Melo's upside is bigger than Sully's?

not even close. Melo will be lucky to be a Perkins type, Sully's ceiling is an all-star


Melo definitely has the higher ceiling. However, he also has the lower floor. Melo has only been playing basketball for 6 years, while Sulinger is a coach's son. That's why you see Sulinger so fundamentally sound. But Melo just has so many raw gifts. His shot blocking, feet, agility, etc.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 23, 2012, 07:21:48 PM
Quote
You guys really underrate and underestimate Melo. I won't be surprised if we call him up and HE becomes the reason we win some games.

Yeah, he has really helped us thus far, crack kill brain cells I guess....
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: JSD on November 23, 2012, 07:23:56 PM
Quote
You guys really underrate and underestimate Melo. I won't be surprised if we call him up and HE becomes the reason we win some games.

Yeah, he has really helped us thus far, crack kill brain cells I guess....

  ::)

could have said the same thing about AB last season...
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: badshar on November 23, 2012, 07:27:06 PM
Quote
You guys really underrate and underestimate Melo. I won't be surprised if we call him up and HE becomes the reason we win some games.

Yeah, he has really helped us thus far, crack kill brain cells I guess....
You obviously failed to understand my point. What I am saying is that you guys consider Melo complete useless garbage of a player. That's not true. You guys think he can't do anything. From what I have seen, Melo wants to learn. Melo is willing to do what it takes to improve himself. As they say, "Where there's a will, there's a way." My point is its not too far-fetched to say that he will soon be able to help us at some point.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: jdz101 on November 23, 2012, 07:28:53 PM
This is false.

Completely unconfirmed, completely ridiculous.

Bradley is Danny's binky and he was looking like an absolute stud last year.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: angryguy77 on November 23, 2012, 07:44:36 PM
Really don't want to see Bradley go. Don't do it Danny.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: The Rondo Show on November 23, 2012, 07:56:12 PM
I would love to have Gortat. However, I would be heartbroken to lose Avery
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 23, 2012, 08:42:59 PM
Quote
You guys really underrate and underestimate Melo. I won't be surprised if we call him up and HE becomes the reason we win some games.

Yeah, he has really helped us thus far, crack kill brain cells I guess....
You obviously failed to understand my point. What I am saying is that you guys consider Melo complete useless garbage of a player. That's not true. You guys think he can't do anything. From what I have seen, Melo wants to learn. Melo is willing to do what it takes to improve himself. As they say, "Where there's a will, there's a way." My point is its not too far-fetched to say that he will soon be able to help us at some point.

Maybe, but gortat can help us NOW. We are in win NOW mode.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: relja on November 23, 2012, 08:49:23 PM
For Bradley? No.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 23, 2012, 09:18:18 PM
Quote
You obviously failed to understand my point. What I am saying is that you guys consider Melo complete useless garbage of a player. That's not true. You guys think he can't do anything. From what I have seen, Melo wants to learn. Melo is willing to do what it takes to improve himself. As they say, "Where there's a will, there's a way." My point is its not too far-fetched to say that he will soon be able to help us at some point.

Wanting to learn and ability learn are two different things.  He was so far buried on the bench he wasn't going to see the light of day.  He is a potential guy right now otherwise he would not be on the Red Claws.

I will post his Red Claw stats they are playing right now.

2 points.  0 Assists 1 Rebound, 3 Blocks so far.  1:38 left to go in 3rd.   Doesn't look dominant but anyone would admit he can block shots.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20121123/MNECTN/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp2021200001


But ready to contribute now? The stats don't support it. I hope he proves me wrong.... 
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: BASS_THUMPER on November 23, 2012, 09:25:01 PM
yall already know how this works


people are like

"why is doc playing him"

"why didnt doc do that"

ainge and doc holdin hands and going shoppin
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 23, 2012, 10:33:22 PM
http://www.celticstown.com/2012/11/23/report-celtics-prepping-package-for-marcin-gortat/

I don't know if it's been posted.

Would be sad to see anybody in the group go.

Edit: the original link within the link I posted:

http://boston.sbnation.com/2012/11/23/3682384/marcin-gortat-trade-rumors-phoenix-suns-boston-celtics-2012-nba-news
Title: Re: BREAKING! Celtics offer Bradley, Melo, and multiple draft picks for Gortat!
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 23, 2012, 11:21:25 PM
how abouit keep our defensive pest bradley and trade melo with Lee and Green???

Then we have bass, Sully, JET, barbosa and wilcox coming off the bench. only problem is a guy to back up The Truth. still a strong bench it would seem. unless we can put bass at the 3 and sully at the 4 and wilcox at the 5.

put KG back to the 4. Gortat starts at the 5.

Then if you look at today's game against OKC, who defends Durant??

Barbosa, Terry or Bradley?  They ae all giving up 8 inches.

Green did a very good job on Durant today.

Plus Lee (6M) + Green (9M) + Fab (1M) = 16M

Gortat = 7M
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 23, 2012, 11:30:19 PM
Lets do it. I don't want Bradley gone but Gortat, production wise would give us a great help to WIN NOW.


On a side note, while I appreciate your report, i really do. My question is mr. OP, why do you even care?

I thought you gave up on this team? I though you're done with this team? Unless you just want us to know the news then I rest my case. Outside of that, why bother when you already gave up,  on this team. Didn't you post that "I'm done with this team" thread a few days ago?
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: jdz101 on November 23, 2012, 11:40:44 PM
Lets do it. I don't want Bradley gone but Gortat, production wise would give us a great help to WIN NOW.


On a side note, while I appreciate your report, i really do. My question is mr. OP is, why do you even care?

I thought you gave up on this team? I though you're done with this team? Unless you just want us to know the news then I rest my case. Outside of that, why bother when you already have up on this team. Didn't you post that "I'm done with this team" thread a few days ago? What, sudden change of heart, Mr. band wagoner?

Yeah he loved that terry 3 in the game thread aswell. Pretty sure according to him this team was garbage two days ago.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Big Rondo on November 23, 2012, 11:45:20 PM
Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

???
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 24, 2012, 12:00:04 AM
Bold statement. I'm sure Cooper, Jordan, etc. would have something to say about it.

I love Bradley, but I would love him much more if he had prototypical SG size. As great as a defender as he is, bigger guards can still shoot over him. That'll never change.

It's a legit possiblility.  The idea of bigger guards shooting over Bradley is all 'on paper'.  In all the time I watched Bradley I saw no signs of him being dominated by larger SG's.  He has held his own against anyone he's gone up against. 

Also his defensive intensity is (IMHO) right up there at Michael Jordan levels right now.  He's only 21 years old and has only really played one full season in the league. 

I'm not saying he will be the best on ball defender of all time, but the potential is definately there for him to be a legendary defensive player when all is said and done.

This trade is really hard for me.  On one hand Bradley is one of the few players on this team that I really don't want to see leave - I love what this guys brings. His effort, his hustle, the way he dominates on defense.  Plus there is his youth (and hence potential), his speed in the open court. 

On the other hand there are really only five centers in the league who help you on offense, on defense AND on rebounds:

* Dwight Howard
* Andrew Bynum
* Al Hortford
* Joakim Noah
* Marcin Gortat

Varejao and Chandler are offensively limited.  Jefferson, Amare and Monroe are defensively limited.  Brook Lopez rebounds like a small forward. Bosh is a Power Forward pretending to be a Center.

That means Marcin is a top 10 center AT LEAST, possibly even top 5.  For a team that lacks size, rebounding and interior defense as much as we do, it's hard to turn down an opportunity to pick up a player with Gortat's talent...especially when you look at the contract he's on.  Take a look at what guys like Hibbert and Asik are getting paid - if he was a free agent Gortat would be (or at the very least be close to) a max contract guy.

If this trade was for Lee and Melo (or Bass and Melo) I'd yes in a heart beat.  If it was for Bass and Lee (I dont think the numbers match) it would be a bit tougher, but I'd still take it for sure.

For Avery it's really tough.  Especially when you look at the salary matching, because that means we'd need to give up another 5M or so player (Lee, Bass, Terry) ALONG with Avery in order to make it work. 

Giving up Bass or Lee + Sullinger makes the most sense.  With Gortat starting and KG moving to PF we would have three bigs (Bass, Sully, Wilcox) fighting for minutes off the bench. That's a waste of good talent, becasue no way we can get all of them good playing time.

Likewise once Bradley returns - assuming he starts - we are not going to be able to find time for Barbosa, Lee AND Terry off the bench.  One of those guys will need to have his playing time sacrificed, otherwise it's going to hurt them all.

Trading Lee + Sully matches perfectly on the Salaries (around 8M there) and it gives Phoenix two talented young players who are good enough to start now. 

For us it leaves us with a fantastic 4 guard rotation (Rondo, Bradley, Barbosa, Terry) and a great front court rotation (KG, Gortat, Bass, Wilcox). 

I really don't know who I'd rather keep out of Sully and Bass.  Both have fought so hard for us and both are high energy players who can contribute in multiple ways (Bass with defense adn scoring, Sully with scoring and rebounding).  Bass give more athletism while Sully is younger and has more upside.

Losing either would be hard, but worth it if it means getting a big of Gortat's calibre in return. 

With Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Garnett, Gortat we have arguably the best starting 5 in the NBA.  Very few teams would have the size to matchup with that PP/KG/MG front line, especially if the Lakers do trade Gasol out.

Our bench (Barbosa, Terry, Green, Bass, Wilcox) also looks very good.   

We would never (ever) have to play small Bass/Sully at center again because KG, Gortat and Wilcox can easilly cover it between them.

We proved today that we CAN beat a good team without Avery...but Lee's defense on Kevin Martin and Sully's hustle had a lot to do with that. 

I just don't know...such a hard call whether Gortat would be more important to us then Bradley or Lee + Sully or Bradley + Bass.

I have to say the thought of KG and Gortat on the floor at the same time (defensively) is super appealing, and combining that with Avery's perimeter defense would make us one hell of a defensive team.

All I'm thinking about right now is the defense + rebounding, but scoring is another thing to consider.  Gortat + Garnett would be a very good front court offensively.  Both can score inside or out, both are solid free throw shooters, both are mobile.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: jdz101 on November 24, 2012, 12:06:07 AM
Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

???

You can think a euro center who has never really been a part of playoffs basketball is the difference if you want. I don't.

He did well with Steve Nash in a pick and roll system but still wasn't really enough of a difference maker to win that team serious games.

Reasonable player on a mediocre team. Definitely not worth trading Avery for.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 24, 2012, 12:20:34 AM
Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

???

You can think a euro center who has never really been a part of playoffs basketball is the difference if you want. I don't.

He did well with Steve Nash in a pick and roll system but still wasn't really enough of a difference maker to win that team serious games.

Reasonable player on a mediocre team. Definitely not worth trading Avery for.


Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 24, 2012, 12:21:10 AM
Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

What evidence do you have to back this up?

What evidence do you have to suggest that Gortat will have a great impact than Bradley AND whichever other player (either Lee, Bass, Terry) we would have to give  up along with him in order to get Gortat?

Gortat is complaining about not getting involved in the offense enough in Phoenix.  Will he be happy being the 3rd or 4th scoring option (behind Pierce, KG and maybe Rondo) in Boston? 

Will success and winning games be enough to leave him satisfied with that?  Avery has played with this team for a year, he knows the guys, he knows his role and he plays it to perfection.

Will bringing in Gortat (and moving KG to PF) lower Garnett's efficiency?  Will KG be as dominant against quickier 4's as he is against 5's?  I think he will, but it's a valid argument. 

Does Gortat (at 28 years old) have the potential to be a future piece for us after Pierce and KG retire?  He will be 31 years old when that day comes, while Bradley will be 24 years old and not even approaching his peak yet.

With Bradley gone does Barbosa, Terry or Lee have the potential to be able to help carry this team once Pierce and KG retire?  Terry will be 38 years old, Barbosa will be 32, Lee will be about 30 but has shown no signs of being much more than a role player.   Neither one of those guys has much potential.

If we do make this trade, and Bradley DOES become an All-Start (or near All-Star) calibre player in 2 years time (at the ripe age of 23) while Gortat starts declinging and the team moves into rebuilding mode...will you be cursing at Danny for making the trade now?

I understand that we want to win a banner now (I do as much as anyone) but I think Danny and Doc are thinking about now AND the future.  They want to win now, but I don't think either of the wants to go through a rebuilding phase - and with all those years on Doc's contact he'd be potentially right in the middle of one. 

If Bradley sticks around and becomes the player he has the potential to be then the second Pierce, KG and Terry retire we will have about $30M in cap space that we can use to sign two max contract players that we could then pair with Rondo, Bradley, Green and either Bass or Sully.  We could potentially be a contending team for the next 2-3 years while PP and KG are still around, and then completely avoid ever having to go through a rebuilding phase. 

With the amount of chemistry Rondo, Bradley and Green could develop over those three years, we could afford to sign up multiple superstars to add to that core, potentially making us an even more dominant team then what we were in 2008 (or any year since).

Of course there is the risk of trusting in Bradley, but thre is ALWAYS a risk in any plan. 

If we can get Gortat for Lee and Bass (or Lee and Sully) plus Melo (if need be) and any number of picks I'd much rather that.  Bradley will never be wasted because even in the worst case scenario he will always have solid trade value based on his age, atleticism and defense alone. 
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: crimson_stallion on November 24, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

I disagree.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - we've been a horrible rebounding team for years now, yet we've been one of the most successful teams in the league (in terms of wins and playoff wins) since the big 3 era due to our defense.

Right now our defense is poor.  Today was an improvement, but one game is not enough...and it still wasn't quite where it needs to be.

Utah has been one of the best rebouding teams in the league this season and last season - where has it gotten them?  Nowhere, because they are weak defensively. 

When you give up an offensive rebound you give the other team another chance to score - but they still need to actually put it in the basket for it to mean anything. 

If you give up a defensive rebound you give up another chance for you to score, but even if you got that rebound you still need to actually make the second shot for it to mean anything.

When you give up rebounds the opposing teams TAKE more shots.  When you play bad defensively the opposing teams MAKE more shots.  Which of those is more dangerous?

What is more of a difference maker - losing out on 5 offensive rebounds, or forcing 5 more turnovers with defensive pressure?  When the opposing team throws the ball out of bounds, bounces it off their foot under pressure, throws it to the opposition, commits a backcourt violation or gets a 24 second / 10 second violaton then what rebound is there to secure?

Bradley makes a big enough difference on defense that he may be able to bring us back to being an elite defensive team - top 10 and maybe even top 5. If we can do this while continuing to score as well as we have so far, we'd be a dominant team regardless of whether we can get rebounds or not. 

If we can somehow give up Lee + Bas or Lee + Sully and get Gortat in return, then it's Win-win.  We improve our offense, improve our defense AND improve our rebounding compared to last year.  Imagine Bradley's defensive pressure combined with Rondo's quick hands on the perimeter, and then Gortat and KG on the inside as the second line of defense?  Plus Pierce is no slouch defensively either.

As I said, it's a REALLY hard decision to make if the move involves Bradley.  It's really 50/50 on whether we'd be better or worse for it.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 24, 2012, 01:14:53 AM
Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

I disagree.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - we've been a horrible rebounding team for years now, yet we've been one of the most successful teams in the league (in terms of wins and playoff wins) since the big 3 era due to our defense.

Right now our defense is poor.  Today was an improvement, but one game is not enough...and it still wasn't quite where it needs to be.

Utah has been one of the best rebouding teams in the league this season and last season - where has it gotten them?  Nowhere, because they are weak defensively. 

When you give up an offensive rebound you give the other team another chance to score - but they still need to actually put it in the basket for it to mean anything. 

If you give up a defensive rebound you give up another chance for you to score, but even if you got that rebound you still need to actually make the second shot for it to mean anything.

When you give up rebounds the opposing teams TAKE more shots.  When you play bad defensively the opposing teams MAKE more shots.  Which of those is more dangerous?

What is more of a difference maker - losing out on 5 offensive rebounds, or forcing 5 more turnovers with defensive pressure?  When the opposing team throws the ball out of bounds, bounces it off their foot under pressure, throws it to the opposition, commits a backcourt violation or gets a 24 second / 10 second violaton then what rebound is there to secure?

Bradley makes a big enough difference on defense that he may be able to bring us back to being an elite defensive team - top 10 and maybe even top 5. If we can do this while continuing to score as well as we have so far, we'd be a dominant team regardless of whether we can get rebounds or not. 

If we can somehow give up Lee + Bas or Lee + Sully and get Gortat in return, then it's Win-win.  We improve our offense, improve our defense AND improve our rebounding compared to last year.  Imagine Bradley's defensive pressure combined with Rondo's quick hands on the perimeter, and then Gortat and KG on the inside as the second line of defense?  Plus Pierce is no slouch defensively either.

As I said, it's a REALLY hard decision to make if the move involves Bradley.  It's really 50/50 on whether we'd be better or worse for it.

Holy massive posts. Respect for always putting so much thought into your posts.

I love AB.

But for Gortat, definitely.

I agree with both sides.

AB is a beast on D. Even if he's unproven in other areas, his D and youth will make him valuable. He makes plays on the defensive end.

However, Gortat puts us over the top. A solid center who can stay on the floor makes a huge difference. Wish Krstic was still here, would make it better.

Lee is actually more proven (I believe you said Lee can't be a part of the future of the franchise) and a 31 year old center is definitely still going to be at least half decent (he's fairly healthy, which is insanely valuable for a big).

Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: nostar on November 24, 2012, 01:33:54 AM
Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.

How about Bass/AB/Melo and a 1st for Gortat and Telfair? I'd take that deal.

Also I am a huge Bradley fan and would hate to see him go, even if it made our team better. For the record I'm not sure it would.

I'd like to wait until AB is healthy and our team is playing together a couple weeks into January before making a move like that.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Lightskinsmurf on November 24, 2012, 01:48:10 AM
crimson_stallion bravo. You're making alot of good thoughtful posts that i agree with also. We could very well already have a team good enough to go the distance. So before making any dramatic trades maybe we should wait until we get one of our most important pieces back in the lineup.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: jdz101 on November 24, 2012, 02:06:50 AM
Bradley is NOT the difference between where we are now and Banner 18.

Gortat very well may be...

What don't you guys understand about that?

???

You can think a euro center who has never really been a part of playoffs basketball is the difference if you want. I don't.

He did well with Steve Nash in a pick and roll system but still wasn't really enough of a difference maker to win that team serious games.

Reasonable player on a mediocre team. Definitely not worth trading Avery for.


Still wouldn't solve our problems with the rebounding and shot blocking.

Avery can shut down anyone, but I we can't rebound it's useless. I love the kid, but I'd rather have Lee who can do a good job defensively as well (not Avery level) and have a Euro center who, while not have been in the playoffs, will still rebound and block shots for us than having a shutdown wing but we can't finish the defense because we allow offensive rebounds.

The team that won it all last year didnt have a center. A lot of teams play without a true 7 footer and still manage to rebound the ball a whooooole lot better than us.

Defensive rebounding is 90% effort and positioning and 10% personnel.

Kenneth Faried is 6'8". He certainly puts in the effort when rebounding though.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: indeedproceed on November 24, 2012, 02:45:41 AM
I don't think holding up Miami as an example of a team that can win it all without a true center is accurate at all.

1) 2 of their 4 other players are top 5 players, not top five positionallly, but top 5 in the entire league, Lebron the clear number 1.

2) Chris Bosh isn't a true center in the way Bynum or Howard are, but he's played center at an elite level for huge portions of his career.

3) they're filled with mulitpositional players. Bron, Bosh, Battier, etc...

Not really a blueprint.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: Yoki_IsTheName on November 24, 2012, 03:22:29 AM
All the post have made great points.

I have been enlightened. We should keep Bradley and just make more efforts on rebounding, which can be done.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: bfrombleacher on November 24, 2012, 04:44:31 AM
Would not give up more than AB, Bass and picks. Hell, might even look to get a little something something more in return.

How about Bass/AB/Melo and a 1st for Gortat and Telfair? I'd take that deal.

Also I am a huge Bradley fan and would hate to see him go, even if it made our team better. For the record I'm not sure it would.

I'd like to wait until AB is healthy and our team is playing together a couple weeks into January before making a move like that.

Just finished the game.

Yup, wait and see, definitely.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: jdz101 on November 24, 2012, 08:07:04 AM
I don't think holding up Miami as an example of a team that can win it all without a true center is accurate at all.

1) 2 of their 4 other players are top 5 players, not top five positionallly, but top 5 in the entire league, Lebron the clear number 1.

2) Chris Bosh isn't a true center in the way Bynum or Howard are, but he's played center at an elite level for huge portions of his career.

3) they're filled with mulitpositional players. Bron, Bosh, Battier, etc...

Not really a blueprint.

Wasn't really trying to use Miami as a blueprint for anything. Just using them as an example as one of quite a few teams that can rebound reasonably well despite not being stocked with seven footers.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: celtics2 on November 24, 2012, 08:15:41 AM
Twitter and the Tooth Fairy now there's a combination. As Celtic fans get delirious about ths Season's possibilities, allegedly's overcome fact. But put that tooth under the pillow, never know.
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: LarryForThree on November 25, 2012, 12:27:51 AM
How about Dionte Christmas's phone number and two second rounders for Gortat?
Title: Re: Celtics Allegedly Offer Bradley, Melo, Picks for Gortat (unconfirmed)
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 25, 2012, 12:36:41 AM
Sorry, even though we need a center we just cant let Bradley go.
This move will come back and haunt us until the day Avery retires from the NBA. This guy will end up as the best on ball defender ever.

This my feeling too.  Forget salary,  people are looking at what Bradley REALLY means to a team.  I think his true worth is at LEAST Gortat, and I still wouldn't feel comfortable ... I'm biased AB is favorite player after KG.

AB is the only player with KG's intensity ... thats worth  something :)