Danny Ainge - lack of big men

[ScoobyDoo]

Celtics championship history:
1. Bill Russell - we won a few rings with him - also had a good PF
2. Dave Cowens - we won two rings with him - also had a good PF
3. Robert Parish - we won three rings with him - also had a good PF
4. Kendrick Perkins - we won a ring with him - also had a great PF

Basically the Celtics have "never" won a ring without a legitimate center and also a very good or even great PF as well. I know the NBA has gone small ball and we can talk all day about that. However, even today, most every championship team has some sort of legitimate big man in the front court - a big man that matters, moves the needle.

We basically start a six foot point guard, three small forwards and a PF. Bam Adebayo basically tossed our collective team all over the  court tonight. I am so sick of being the team getting pushed around all the time.

I love what Ainge has done with our guards and wings. Good, nice - great job. For the love of God can we get some gritty enforcers on this team in the paint? Can we get one meaningful big man who is either a legitimate PF or Center?

If I were Tatum's agent I'd tell him to consider leaving after signing his big contract unless Ainge has made a commitment to getting some decent big men because Tatum is unlikely to ever win a title in Boston with out one.

With our draft: Take some combination of three of Jalen Smith, Achiwa, Vernon Carey, Azubuke and Xavier Tillman.
Mid Level - try to bring back Baynes on a 2-3 year mid level deal.

Robert Williams / Baynes / Azubuke
Theis / Jalen Smith / Vernon Carey or Tillman
Tatum / Hayward / Grant Williams (tell him to slim down)
Brown / Langford / One of Edwards, Ojeleye, etc.
Kemba / Smart / Wanamaker

Put all the young bigs in the mix - see who pans out. Target two years out when Tatum and Brown are 24 and 26

* Own the paint - make it a painful place to be for other teams
* Let our plethora of wings and guards wreak havoc on the wings

Can't stand being pushed around. Also shocked that Ainge hasn't done the math on two things:
A) Celtics have "never" won a ring without legitimate big men
B) The small teams aren't making it through the bump and grind playoffs - they're getting waxed.

It's mind boggling.



Own the paint     

 

 

[ScoobyDoo]

One more thought - at this point I wouldn't mind Ainge stepping down to elt Zarren take the helm. Ainge refuses to get big men - at all costs. He simply won't do it.

[SparzWizard]

They want bigs who can shoot 3's more 

[Rondo9]

They want bigs who can shoot 3's more 

That's pretty much where the NBA is at right now.

[pearljammer10]

Two things that have always driven me bonkers about Danny:

1) His fascination with unathletic, undersized big men who can’t play above the rim (Glen Davis, Jared Sullinger etc)

2) His fascination with undersized two guards that can’t shoot (Avery Bradley, Gabe Pruitt, Tony Allen, Marcus Smart etc)

Other than that however, I wouldn’t want another GM.

[ddt27]

Don't get me wrong I think we can get a better big man, but we are getting killed by bam however he isn't a true big man, he's 6'9'' he is versatile and very quick for he's size, and a true big man would kill him can't see him guarding embiid or any other true big,  if they get to the finals I can't see him dominate ad and a mix of mcgee howard and even lebron ... We keep looking for our flaws and I really think we are not getting over the hump cause we are not hitting the amount of 3's we should due to our size and ability and we are not taking care of the ball, that along with some better adjustments

[CFAN38]

Couple of quick points,

First I don't disagree that the big man rotation has been an issue all season.

In DA's defense Horford left. Baynes had to be traded in order to get Kemba. If not for the need to open cap the Cs would have Baynes an Theis splitting minutes at the 5 and that would make a huge difference.

The FA marked for cheap bigs wasn't great and Kanter had proved he had some value while with Portland. For all his skill he simply isnt playable for more then spot minutes

R Williams is not progressing like most of us would hope. I think a combination of injuries stunting his development and lower bball IQ have made it hard for BS to trust him making rotations.

Anyone criticizing DAs lack of athletic bigs selected in the draft needs to look back at each pick and who was available.
2018 Cs went big with R Williams
2016 with Zizic,
2015 not taking Harrell at #28 stood out to me but he is another undersized big and had attitude concerns
2014 Capela over young would have been nice but at the time Young was a pretty positive pick and Capela was a raw unknown
2013 went skilled big with KO
2012 Sullinger was worth the gamble and produced, Fab Melo was an attempt at athletic size2014 nba draft
 

Much of the NBA has gone small. The Heat Start 6'9 Bam, 6'6 Crowder (he isn't that tall), 6'7 Butler, 6'7 Robinson and 6'3 Dragic.   

[Spilling Green Dye]

Two things that have always driven me bonkers about Danny:

1) His fascination with unathletic, undersized big men who can’t play above the rim (Glen Davis, Jared Sullinger etc)

2) His fascination with undersized two guards that can’t shoot (Avery Bradley, Gabe Pruitt, Tony Allen, Marcus Smart etc)

Other than that however, I wouldn’t want another GM.

#1 has driven me crazy.  But not #2 as much.  All 3 but Pruitt have been really good for the celtics.  If the rest of the league has an elite shooter, it's great to have a guard who is elite on defense.

[apc]

Hmm I just want a couple of trusted vets on my bench who have seen some playoff battles- ideally SF or PF

[NKY fan]

Hmm I just want a couple of trusted vets on my bench who have seen some playoff battles- ideally SF or PF

Nope. We got 4 draft picks to make. Need roster spots for them.

[apc]

Hmm I just want a couple of trusted vets on my bench who have seen some playoff battles- ideally SF or PF

Nope. We got 4 draft picks to make. Need roster spots for them.

Last thing we need is more prospects. We are a contender.

[NKY fan]

So Miami have a pretty clean cap sheet after next year. They can add a max player while keeping their core of 6-7 players.
Imagine Giannis or Kawhi or even Paul George or Kyle Lowry (too old at that point) added to that team.
We will be right behind them and Dallas in terms of contenders status if Reily and Cuban play their chips right.

[ScoobyDoo]

CFan38:  Point taken and in fairness to Ainge, he did sign Horford, so he targeted a big man, and got him. Noted on Baynes (he would have been very useful versus Bam). Hated seeing him go but understood why he had to. Only comment on Bam is that, like a Draymond Green or Marcus Smart, he plays much bigger than his size. We just don't have a guy like that. I do like Robert Williams size, length - hopefully he takes a meaningful leap next year.

APC & NKY Fan: Understood on wanting vets and agreed we are a contender but I guess I look at it this way

1. Try to re-sign Aaron Baynes - he trimmed down and looked really solid this year. Then you still have Theis and Robert Williams, Grant Williams a little - so that's your vet core to lean on when needed.

But then -

2. I'm trying to look out to when Tatum and brown are 24 and 26 respectively. Through this lens I'd like to throw three young bigs into the mix with Robert Williams and hope that within 2-3 years they're ready to take the reigns and would be somewhat within the same age range as Tatum and Brown for what I would hope is a good, long run...

So frontline over the next 2-3 years:  Robert Williams, Theis, Baynes (really want Baynes - a super tough enforcer type - we need that element to go to when needed...)

Future front line in development:  Robert Williams (existing development) and then a combination of three of the following with our three draft picks this year: Jalen Smith, Precious Achiwa, Azubuke, Vernon Carey, Stewart, Tillman

I want that ability to go big and bruising at the PF/Center rotation when needed - we simply can't right now.

The other thing I don't like about small ball, when Theis, Brown and Tatum are often times outsized, is that you're being asked to put a lot more physical pressure on your body than if you're playing in your natural position.

I could be convinced to take the best available wing (to pair with Tatum and brown long term), or PG (as a future replacement for Kemba) with that 14th pick, but IMHO I have to then have the two best bigs available at 26 and 30. The good thing is that the bigs don't have to be all stars, just solid defenders, rebounders and reasonable scoring ability, whether it's a lob machine or they can shoot a little. We have all the offensive firepower we need on the roster already...         
 

[Bobshot]

The team is 3P crazy.

I just saw a stat on twitter where the Celtics were oh-fer about ten on 3P shots the last minutes of that game last night.
When they revert to 3P shooting like that, they invariably collapse.  You have to blame that on the coach.

Traditionally, the Celtics have been a pass for the best shot team. Ainge knows that. He played for those teams. Danny happened to be the designated 3P shooter on those teams, along with Larry. You never saw McHale or DJ or Parrish shoot the 3.

The 3P shot is basically a lousy shot because it's so far away from the basket. But it has value for the extra point if you can shoot at least 35% or so of your shots. When you get down below 30%, you're a dead duck in most games.

In my view, Danny will never win another title without a balanced game. Which means a much stronger game in the paint. Which means a big or 2 who can defend the paint and play 25-30 mpg. Whether he can achieve that with Stevens and his small ball game  is doubtful. Stevens simply doesn't see bigs in that way.

[liam]

Hmm I just want a couple of trusted vets on my bench who have seen some playoff battles- ideally SF or PF

Nope. We got 4 draft picks to make. Need roster spots for them.

Last thing we need is more prospects. We are a contender.

That's why I'm so hyed up on drafting low ceiling/low floor guys who are ready to be role players now; Bane, Nesmith, Bey, Reed, Tyler Bey, Tillie, Winston, and Tillman.