CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on December 19, 2012, 10:28:12 PM
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I want to see what you got for a fantasy roster, you would love to see Rajon run with. A team of shooters and runners to play the fastest most athletic hoops seen in a while.
So go ahead just make a starting five. We can keep Bradley, Sully, and Green for bench guys.
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PG-Rondo
SG-Mayo
SF-Rudy Gay
PF-Serge Ibaka
C-KG
That team would be scary. A lot of defense. Good shooters all around and very athletic.
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Ideal Rondo Roster I'd probably have Steph Curry at SG, because other than Kyrie Irving and Durant there's no better young shooter in the league... but maybe you go with a more traditional SG instead. James Harden and Kobe are the league's two best right now. At SF ... LeBron James. At PF... Kevin Love. at C... Dwight Howard. And then I have Chris Paul at starting PG. I bring Rondo off the bench. WE're talking ideal fantasy roster surrounding Rondo, right?
Good luck beating my team.
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Ok How many games does this team win Wih a bench of Green, Sully, Melo, Bradley, And Lee
Greg Monroe
Josh Smith
Paul George
OJ Mayo
Rondo
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Ok How many games does this team win Wih a bench of Green, Sully, Melo, Bradley, And Lee
Greg Monroe
Josh Smith
Paul George
OJ Mayo
Rondo
35-42
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C - KG
PF - Bosh
SF - Pierce
SG - LeBron
PG - Rondo
A potent mix of speed, athleticism, defense, clutch and scoring.
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C - KG
PF - Bosh
SF - Pierce
SG - LeBron
PG - Rondo
A potent mix of speed, athleticism, defense, clutch and scoring.
If we're moving LeBron to shooting guard then I change my roster to:
C - Dwight
PF - Love
SF - Durant
SG - LeBron
PG - Chris Paul
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6th man - Rondo
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Rondo
Harden
Durant
Love
Chandler
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Ok How many games does this team win Wih a bench of Green, Sully, Melo, Bradley, And Lee
Greg Monroe
Josh Smith
Paul George
OJ Mayo
Rondo
Paul George is a great pick. Big fan of George alongside Rondo.
Not interested in Mayo or Monroe due to defensive frailties. Lukewarm on Josh Smith due to his dodgy jump-shooting.
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C - KG
PF - Bosh
SF - Pierce
SG - LeBron
PG - Rondo
A potent mix of speed, athleticism, defense, clutch and scoring.
If we're moving LeBron to shooting guard then I change my roster to:
C - Dwight
PF - Love
SF - Durant
SG - LeBron
PG - Chris Paul
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6th man - Rondo
Dwight would probably go stark raving mad being the 4th or 5th option on that team.
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KG
Blake Griffin
Kevin Durant
Oj Mayo
Rondo
I like that team
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PG: Rondo
SG: P.George
SF: K.Leonard
PF: D.Nowitzki
C: J.Noah
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Ok lets try this
Joakim Noah
Ryan Anderson
Gallonari
Paul George
Rondo
On this team, Avery Bradley and Novak are coming off the bench. Rondo would avg 17 assists a game.
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No love for the
KG
Blake
Durant
Mayo
Rondo
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Who Dirk is such a great call to play with Rondo right now. If you replace Leonard with Josh Smith that team would beat the Heat.
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C - KG
PF - Bosh
SF - Pierce
SG - LeBron
PG - Rondo
A potent mix of speed, athleticism, defense, clutch and scoring.
If we're moving LeBron to shooting guard then I change my roster to:
C - Dwight
PF - Love
SF - Durant
SG - LeBron
PG - Chris Paul
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6th man - Rondo
Nah if we're going for fastest and most athletic like in the OP we need:
C - Dwight
PF - Griffin
SF - Durant
SG - LeBron
PG - Rose/Westbrook
Actually, the pure most athletic team would be the above but with LeBron at SF, and Westbrook at SG (he's got the size for it).
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Ideal Rondo Roster I'd probably have Steph Curry at SG, because other than Kyrie Irving and Durant there's no better young shooter in the league... but maybe you go with a more traditional SG instead. James Harden and Kobe are the league's two best right now. At SF ... LeBron James. At PF... Kevin Love. at C... Dwight Howard. And then I have Chris Paul at starting PG. I bring Rondo off the bench. WE're talking ideal fantasy roster surrounding Rondo, right?
Good luck beating my team.
Howard/James/Durant/Kobe/Rondo.
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Rondo needs to be around shooters. And for fun, I'll try to avoid the obvious choices like Lebron, Dwight, etc.
PG - Rondo
SG - Wesley Matthews
SF - Paul George
PF - Ryan Anderson
C - Andrea Bargnani
Would this team contend? Not a chance. No interior defense and nobody who can really create off the dribble besides Rondo. And for the record, I hate Bargnani's game.
But I think it'd be fun to see Rondo with 4 great 3-point shooters who could space the floor for him. And with Matthews/George, I aimed for two swings that could also finish around the rim well.
By the way, as I was looking around KG was one of the best options for Rondo since KG can shoot AND defend. I think Rondo would be less useful with a big like Dwight.
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Rondo needs to be around shooters. And for fun, I'll try to avoid the obvious choices like Lebron, Dwight, etc.
PG - Rondo
SG - Wesley Matthews
SF - Paul George
PF - Ryan Anderson
C - Andrea Bargnani
Would this team contend? Not a chance. No interior defense and nobody who can really create off the dribble besides Rondo. And for the record, I hate Bargnani's game.
But I think it'd be fun to see Rondo with 4 great 3-point shooters who could space the floor for him. And with Matthews/George, I aimed for two swings that could also finish around the rim well.
By the way, as I was looking around KG was one of the best options for Rondo since KG can shoot AND defend. I think Rondo would be less useful with a big like Dwight.
That team needs Danilo Gallinari. Other than that, it's a fun team, for sure (=
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Prime Shaq and Rondo. Thanks for playing.
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Fantastic topic!
PG: Rondo
SG: Paul George
SF: James
PF: Love
C: Noah
SG: I see a lot of people saying OJ Mayo and James Harden, but I am a big NO for both. They're players who need the ball in their hands to be more than useful. If you have Rondo at point, the ball is in Rondo's hands. Rondo is basically useless off the ball. Neither Mayo nor Harden are great off-the-ball guards. George is useful off-the-ball, and it'd be nice to pair Rondo with a young SG who can help offensively and defensively.
SF: I loathe writing Bron's name, but teaming him with Rondo would be as exciting a match-up of players as possible in the NBA. Forget about Kobe or Durant or Wade. Rondo would find Bron in places Bron didn't even know he could be found. Those two alone may average 100ppg.
PF: I know Love plays a lot of C, but in a reverse KG, I'm planting him at PF. Not only is he a beast on the boards and a potential alley-oop every time down the court, but he spaces the floor with his three-point shooting, and Rondo would find him every time. I agree with people who put Nowitzki, but Love is younger and rebounds at a much higher clip.
C: I want more of a traditional C with a defensive background. Someone who doesn't need the ball on the block to score, but is smart enough and good enough with his hands to find openings, catch Rondo's passes, and finish at the rim. He doesn't need to be 7-ft because he has beats like Love and Bron down in the post with him. Al Horford is a close second with David Lee coming in third.
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Varejao
Garnett
Pierce
Bradley (Terry)
Rondo
6th man Terry or Lee
7th Lee or Collins
8th Collins or Sully
9th Sully or a bag of Cheetos
Bye Bye Green
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PG: Rajon Rondo
SG: Klay Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge
C: KG
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Surprised I haven't seen much small ball w/ Lebron at PF.
PG : Rajon Rondo
SG : Steph Curry
SF : Kevin Durant
PF : Lebron James
C : Kevin Garnett (or maybe Dirk) (I'm hesitant to add Love, cuz you need the veteran swagger to fully dominate)
Make it happen, Danny!!!!!!!!!!
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Rondo
Bradley
Green
Love
Melo
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PG: Rondo
SG: E.Gordon
SF: K.Leonard
PF: T.Gibson
C: L.Aldridge
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Rondo
Paul George
Durant
Nowitzki
KG
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Howard
Love
LeBron
Wade
Rondo
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Rondo/Arron Affalo/Rudy Gay/KG/ Marc Gasol.
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Howard
Lebron
Durant
Paul George
Rondo
Dirk 6th man
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PG: Rondo
SG: Curry
SF: Durant
PF: Lebron
C : Love
Doc's dream team. small ball all day.
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It's too easy to just Lebron and etc...
Let's try to make it a realistic team that could actually be attained and afforded.
Rondo
Klay Thompson
Rudy Gay
Dirk
Chandler
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
If I had to choose who would control the ball the majority of the time, it would Lebron. Why wouldn't you let the best player in the game keep doing what he's doing?
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Rajon Rondo
Paul George
Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tyson Chandler
Trying to avoid the obvious Lebron/Dwight lineups, so I went with this. Good floor spacing. Rudy Gay and LA can both get hot and carry a team offensively on any given night. Athletes at every position. Great length, will create a lot of turnovers and subsequently a lot of transition opportunities. Good-but-not-great rebounders at every position should make me solid on the boards overall.
Went with Chandler over Noah after some deliberation. Noah's a better rebounder, but Chandler is an elite finisher and a better defender.
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Does anyone think this team could win a title in three years if constructed.
Dirk
Josh Smith
Gallonari
Mayo
Rondo
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Rondo
Ben Gordon (or Bargnani at the 2)
Durant
Blake Griffin
DW12
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I can't help myself. ;D
PG: Rondo
SG: Havlicek
SF: Bird
PF: McHale
C: Russell
Bench:
C/F: Garnett
F/G: Pierce
G: Cousy
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
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PG: Rondo
SG: Curry
SF: Durant
PF: Lebron
C : Love
Doc's dream team. small ball all day.
Right now.
PG: Rondo
SG: Mayo
SF: Durant
PF: Lebron
C: Chandler
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PG: Rondo
SG: P.George
SF: K.Leonard
PF: D.Nowitzki
C: J.Noah
Gimme Tyson Chandler on this team over J Noah
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Not being ridiculous and creating an All Star team:
Rondo
Harden
Igoudala
Love
Chandler
Shooting from SG and PF (and SF at times). Team can play some great defense and get out and run as well.
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I talked about this a bit last year. I would model a team for Rondo off of the Jason Kidd lead nets.
PG Kidd pass first leader )15pt 9 ast 6rb)
SG Kittles 3pt shooting guard avg 13pt)
SF Jefferson athletic sf solid wing defender (avg 18pt 6rb)
PF Martin runs floor, good defender (avg 17pt 10rb)
C Collins solid defensive big (avg 5pt 5 rb)
bench
F Rodny Rodger physical hit 3s
G Harris combo guard
F/C Willaims
using that model, and the present day nba. My best replication would be
PG Rondo
SG Kevin Martin/Rip Hamilton
SF Iqoudala
PF Josh Smith (not my favorite but prob best fit)
C Perk
6th Tolliver
7th AB ?
With that said. A realistic team for the post KG/ Pierce era
PG Rondo (13pt 12ast 5rb)
SG AB (12-15pt game)
SF Green (15pt 5rb)
PF Milsap (15pt 9rb)
C ??
6th Sully (10pt 6rb)
7th Lee (would rather have a scoring 6'4+SG)
8th ??
A big question for me is will Melo become that defensive big we will need so badly?
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Easy.
Rondo
Sefolosha (43% on 3s past two seasons)
Iguodala (38% on 3s past two seasons)
Smith (37% this season)
KG
A lineup that could actually happen, maybe with an another offensive shooter/defender off the bench like Lou Williams, Kawhi Leonard, or Wesley Mathews to finish games with.
You got your 2 fast break guys (probably the 2nd and 3rd most athletic guys in the league), 4 elite passers and 1 that's above average, floor spacers at every position, two pick and roll/pop threats, excellent rebounding, and the best defense in league (elite at every position).
I'd try to go at Afflalo or Ibaka if at all possible. Paul George would be ideal but I doubt Indiana ever lets go of him.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
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PG: Rondo
SG: Harden
SF: Durant
PF: KG
C: Noah
Tough interior d, two 3 point threats, pick'n'roll, pick'n'pop, post players, a stretch four and a lot of drive and kick opportunities.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
I agree Rondo is a much better passer than LeBron. I agree that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to. I disagree that LeBron would have a large spike in turnovers.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to and if he played the point guard position full time. But he'll always have a scorers mentality first and foremost. So between the scoring and playmaking, LeBron will need to monopolize the ball. Far more than Rondo. LeBron will never be the distributor / floor general that Rondo is (and if he did, his assists would drop) or have the vision and creativity Rondo possesses as a passer.
I do think that LeBron could be a 25-30ppg and 10-11apg with 7-8rpg from the PG position though. Kind of a modern day Oscar Robertson. With everything revolving around him.
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Rondo
Thabo (Only need stretch shooting and defense)
Pierce
Lebron
KG
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
I agree Rondo is a much better passer than LeBron. I agree that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to. I disagree that LeBron would have a large spike in turnovers.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to and if he played the point guard position full time. But he'll always have a scorers mentality first and foremost. So between the scoring and playmaking, LeBron will need to monopolize the ball. Far more than Rondo. LeBron will never be the distributor / floor general that Rondo is (and if he did, his assists would drop) or have the vision and creativity Rondo possesses as a passer.
I do think that LeBron could be a 25-30ppg and 10-11apg with 7-8rpg from the PG position though. Kind of a modern day Oscar Robertson. With everything revolving around him.
I don't know how you double your assists with the same quality of play and not come close to doubling your TOs.
LeBron has played the point for the majority of his career. He'll take handoffs from other guys that bring the ball up the court unlike the more traditional Rondo, but it's crazy to say the offense/ball hasn't revolved around him. He's a scoring PG. Derrick Rose with 6 more inches and better steroids.
I highly doubt there's enough time in a game for LeBron to average 30 and 11 over a season. Yeah so there was one guy in history that could do it, but Oscar's teams were taking like 20 more shots a game.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
I agree Rondo is a much better passer than LeBron. I agree that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to. I disagree that LeBron would have a large spike in turnovers.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to and if he played the point guard position full time. But he'll always have a scorers mentality first and foremost. So between the scoring and playmaking, LeBron will need to monopolize the ball. Far more than Rondo. LeBron will never be the distributor / floor general that Rondo is (and if he did, his assists would drop) or have the vision and creativity Rondo possesses as a passer.
I do think that LeBron could be a 25-30ppg and 10-11apg with 7-8rpg from the PG position though. Kind of a modern day Oscar Robertson. With everything revolving around him.
I don't know how you double your assists with the same quality of play and not come close to doubling your TOs.
LeBron has played the point for the majority of his career. He'll take handoffs from other guys that bring the ball up the court unlike the more traditional Rondo, but it's crazy to say the offense/ball hasn't revolved around him. He's a scoring PG. Derrick Rose with 6 more inches and better steroids.
I highly doubt there's enough time in a game for LeBron to average 30 and 11 over a season. Yeah so there was one guy in history that could do it, but Oscar's teams were taking like 20 more shots a game.
His turnovers will increase some but not double. They'll be at a similar rate, maybe slightly increased, from his current level relative to his combined scoring + assists responsibilities.
LeBron wouldn't be able to put up 25-30ppg and 10-11apg on a team with a player like D-Wade alongside him. More like a squad like Cleveland. Where he allowed monopolize the ball.
LeBron has played point forward throughout the majority of his career. Not PG. There is a big difference between the two in terms of touches, time on the ball and sharing the ball with another creator offensively (like Mo Williams).
LeBron has hardly ever played PG in his career. He played there a fair bit as a rookie and for a few games while Mo Williams was injured (and did average double digit assists and a near triple double with huge scoring numbers at PG = mainly because there was hardly anybody else to create offensively so LeBron had to do everything).
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Kind of easy to customize with no limits, how about staying under $50 mil in salary for the starting five?
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
There's no way on the planet James would ever average double digit assists if he wasn't such a great scorer. LeBron's a very good passer but in general he gets the attention of 2-3 defenders and passes the ball to whoever's wide open because their defender's helping on James. Let him try and run an offense with the other 4 defenders close to their man and his defender playing off of him and the results would be pretty mediocre.
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Kind of easy to customize with no limits, how about staying under $50 mil in salary for the starting five?
Yeah everybody what he said. Lets try to stay around 50 Million combined salaries.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
I agree Rondo is a much better passer than LeBron. I agree that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to. I disagree that LeBron would have a large spike in turnovers.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to and if he played the point guard position full time. But he'll always have a scorers mentality first and foremost. So between the scoring and playmaking, LeBron will need to monopolize the ball. Far more than Rondo. LeBron will never be the distributor / floor general that Rondo is (and if he did, his assists would drop) or have the vision and creativity Rondo possesses as a passer.
I do think that LeBron could be a 25-30ppg and 10-11apg with 7-8rpg from the PG position though. Kind of a modern day Oscar Robertson. With everything revolving around him.
I don't know how you double your assists with the same quality of play and not come close to doubling your TOs.
LeBron has played the point for the majority of his career. He'll take handoffs from other guys that bring the ball up the court unlike the more traditional Rondo, but it's crazy to say the offense/ball hasn't revolved around him. He's a scoring PG. Derrick Rose with 6 more inches and better steroids.
I highly doubt there's enough time in a game for LeBron to average 30 and 11 over a season. Yeah so there was one guy in history that could do it, but Oscar's teams were taking like 20 more shots a game.
His turnovers will increase some but not double. They'll be at a similar rate, maybe slightly increased, from his current level relative to his combined scoring + assists responsibilities.
LeBron wouldn't be able to put up 25-30ppg and 10-11apg on a team with a player like D-Wade alongside him. More like a squad like Cleveland. Where he allowed monopolize the ball.
LeBron has played point forward throughout the majority of his career. Not PG. There is a big difference between the two in terms of touches, time on the ball and sharing the ball with another creator offensively (like Mo Williams).
LeBron has hardly ever played PG in his career. He played there a fair bit as a rookie and for a few games while Mo Williams was injured (and did average double digit assists and a near triple double with huge scoring numbers at PG = mainly because there was hardly anybody else to create offensively so LeBron had to do everything).
He did dominate the ball on a team like Cleveland with no true PG though, and was a 30 and 7 player in the middle of his prime. Dwyane Wade also ran the point in Miami and was a 7 assist player until LeBron came to town, took the duties, and forced him down 4. I don't really see how those ~4 assists that Wade and Mo Williams take away from LeBron is all that different than the 4 assists that Pierce takes away from Rondo when he's creating for other. That's not counting the 2-3 each going to KG and Ray (now Terry).
Point forward, point guard, it's the same thing. He's the creator of the offense regardless of which guy he's guarding on the other end. Just because Norm Nixon or Byron Scott is the shortest guy on the court doesn't mean Magic isn't the PG. The only difference between what LeBron did in Cleveland and what most PGs do is he doesn't bring the ball up the court every time, and he doesn't set up plays that are run for other guys, for example throwing it down to Big Z for a post up. That's why his usage is so high.
And I was never saying his TO rate would double, I was saying his TOs would as a result of doubling the amount of passes he has to make to get where Rondo is. LeBron takes amazing care of the ball, people aren't picking his pocket or making him get out of control with nowhere to go, the majority of his TOs are from passes.
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Well, if Rondo's going to play with Lebron, both are going to have to adjust their games. Lebron is actually better than Rondo in what he creates bringing the ball up the court because he's the best transition scorer in the game and a tremendous transition passer who doesn't turn the ball over like Rondo does.
Rondo's a much better passer than James.
Because he has more assists?
If James wasn't such a great scorer and focused on getting double digit assists a night, he would do it easily.
And average twice as many TOs than Rondo in the process.
I agree Rondo is a much better passer than LeBron. I agree that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to. I disagree that LeBron would have a large spike in turnovers.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists if he chose to and if he played the point guard position full time. But he'll always have a scorers mentality first and foremost. So between the scoring and playmaking, LeBron will need to monopolize the ball. Far more than Rondo. LeBron will never be the distributor / floor general that Rondo is (and if he did, his assists would drop) or have the vision and creativity Rondo possesses as a passer.
I do think that LeBron could be a 25-30ppg and 10-11apg with 7-8rpg from the PG position though. Kind of a modern day Oscar Robertson. With everything revolving around him.
I don't know how you double your assists with the same quality of play and not come close to doubling your TOs.
LeBron has played the point for the majority of his career. He'll take handoffs from other guys that bring the ball up the court unlike the more traditional Rondo, but it's crazy to say the offense/ball hasn't revolved around him. He's a scoring PG. Derrick Rose with 6 more inches and better steroids.
I highly doubt there's enough time in a game for LeBron to average 30 and 11 over a season. Yeah so there was one guy in history that could do it, but Oscar's teams were taking like 20 more shots a game.
His turnovers will increase some but not double. They'll be at a similar rate, maybe slightly increased, from his current level relative to his combined scoring + assists responsibilities.
LeBron wouldn't be able to put up 25-30ppg and 10-11apg on a team with a player like D-Wade alongside him. More like a squad like Cleveland. Where he allowed monopolize the ball.
LeBron has played point forward throughout the majority of his career. Not PG. There is a big difference between the two in terms of touches, time on the ball and sharing the ball with another creator offensively (like Mo Williams).
LeBron has hardly ever played PG in his career. He played there a fair bit as a rookie and for a few games while Mo Williams was injured (and did average double digit assists and a near triple double with huge scoring numbers at PG = mainly because there was hardly anybody else to create offensively so LeBron had to do everything).
He did dominate the ball on a team like Cleveland with no true PG though, and was a 30 and 7 player in the middle of his prime. Dwyane Wade also ran the point in Miami and was a 7 assist player until LeBron came to town, took the duties, and forced him down 4. I don't really see how those ~4 assists that Wade and Mo Williams take away from LeBron is all that different than the 4 assists that Pierce takes away from Rondo when he's creating for other. That's not counting the 2-3 each going to KG and Ray (now Terry).
Point forward, point guard, it's the same thing. He's the creator of the offense regardless of which guy he's guarding on the other end. Just because Norm Nixon or Byron Scott is the shortest guy on the court doesn't mean Magic isn't the PG. The only difference between what LeBron did in Cleveland and what most PGs do is he doesn't bring the ball up the court every time, and he doesn't set up plays that are run for other guys, for example throwing it down to Big Z for a post up. That's why his usage is so high.
And I was never saying his TO rate would double, I was saying his TOs would as a result of doubling the amount of passes he has to make to get where Rondo is. LeBron takes amazing care of the ball, people aren't picking his pocket or making him get out of control with nowhere to go, the majority of his TOs are from passes.
(1) The bolded part = which means he gets less assists. He would pick up another couple of them if he did do those things. If he played as a PG instead of point forward. There clearly is a difference between the two roles. You just explained it.
As high as LeBron's usage was as a point forward, it would be even higher as a point guard.
As much as LeBron dominated the ball in Cleveland, he would have had to dominate it even more without Mo Williams there (as Rondo could do if he chose to without Pierce). It is not just the four assists Mo Williams averaged. It is the shot attempts. It's the pick and rolls he ran. The time Mo Williams spent on the ball.
Take Mo Williams away from that Cavs team and replace him with a Shane Battier type (low usage, limited shot-creation and playmaking skills) at SF (alongside Anthony Parker type at SG) and LeBron's duties as a creator offensively increase considerably because he is the sole creator on the floor. There is nobody else there on that perimeter trio to take those touches, pick and rolls, shot attempts and passes that Mo Williams took (no replacement for Mo). So those touches, for the most part, go to LeBron. So his combined scoring/assists rise due to an increased load offensively.
LeBron averaged 8.6 assists and 29.7 points. With a larger load offensively, as a point guard and while playing without a Mo Williams (or replacement player), you don't think LeBron can get to double digit assists? Of course he could.
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On my first post, way up there = the bolded brown part = I said that LeBron is not as good passer or floor general as Rondo. That he couldn't do the things Rondo can do.
I do think that LeBron could average double digit assists though. And I do think he could be a prolific scorer while doing so 25-30. And I do not think his turnovers would see a large spike as a result.
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RE: Turnovers
I think there might be a miscommunication here. I am not completely sure but I think we may be agreeing with one another. Just saying it in a different way. My not quite understanding what you meant and you not quite understanding what I meant. But the same thing in the end. Maybe ??
From LeBron's 2010 season, when he averaged 29.7ppg and 8.6apg and 3.2tpg. With an increased usage from playing PG and no Mo Williams and with probably a 15-20% increase in usage to get to double digit assists, I'd expect LeBron's turnovers to go up by the comparable amount (15-20% = say 3.75tpg). Probably even at slightly increased rate (20-25% = say 4.0 turnovers a game). Something like that.
Which is still excellent for a guy who is going for 30/10 on a nightly basis. The increase in turnovers is in line, or close to it, with his increase in usage. There wouldn't be a large spike from his previous rate of turnovers.