Author Topic: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose  (Read 7070 times)

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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2019, 03:16:47 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.
Being garbage on defence over the last few games hasn’t stopped Mook, JT, Rozier or Theis playing

Besides no one said JB needs to stop getting minutes.

I’m saying that’s why he isn’t playing as much as people probably want him to play. And I’m saying it’s because despite his offensive surges, he has a bunch of defensive lapses.
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2019, 05:11:22 AM »

Offline Somebody

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.
Being garbage on defence over the last few games hasn’t stopped Mook, JT, Rozier or Theis playing

Besides no one said JB needs to stop getting minutes.

I’m saying that’s why he isn’t playing as much as people probably want him to play. And I’m saying it’s because despite his offensive surges, he has a bunch of defensive lapses.
Which we're countering with players who play worse defense than that are playing way more minutes.
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2019, 05:12:29 AM »

Offline Somebody

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.
Being garbage on defence over the last few games hasn’t stopped Mook, JT, Rozier or Theis playing

But these guys aren’t featured the way Jaylen is featured either. I mean, JB gets a lot of touches and opportunities. Just because he doesn’t start doesn’t mean he doesn’t get his opportunities.
Uhhhhhhhhh yeah 20 minutes and six shots compared to ~33 for Mook and Tatum with 10+ shots each is a lot of opportunities "compared to these guys".
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2019, 09:31:02 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think a bunch of this stuff about Brown missing assignments is recency bias. He had a horrible overall game with some very, very obvious defensive gaffs but before that, he had been playing some of the best defensive basketball on the team.

It's why he had been switched onto the closing unit, because of his return to being a top level defender. It's also why his offense has been better, because when is is engaged on both ends, he seems to focus better overall and the quality of his offense also rises.

Brown still misses assignments, but nowhere near as much as some are making it out to be. Over quite a while, Brown has been tearing it up defensively with few screw ups. He just had a bad game.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2019, 10:22:17 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I think a bunch of this stuff about Brown missing assignments is recency bias. He had a horrible overall game with some very, very obvious defensive gaffs but before that, he had been playing some of the best defensive basketball on the team.

It's why he had been switched onto the closing unit, because of his return to being a top level defender. It's also why his offense has been better, because when is is engaged on both ends, he seems to focus better overall and the quality of his offense also rises.

Brown still misses assignments, but nowhere near as much as some are making it out to be. Over quite a while, Brown has been tearing it up defensively with few screw ups. He just had a bad game.

There's like 5-10 guards in the NBA that are better defenders than JB consistantly and everyone HATES on him.

Meanwhile Gordon Hayward is literally the least consistant player in the NBA and the consensus is he "just needs more time to get his mind and body right." SMH


Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2019, 10:28:35 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what they're capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2019, 10:30:55 AM »

Online Donoghus

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.


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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2019, 10:47:46 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Man, yall need to give that dude some slack. He has taken the biggest hit and biggest burden of anyone. He was a HUGE part of why they overacheived and then they demote him to wannamaker status IN A CONTRACT YEAR...basically just because Kyrie looks good scoring, and they want to keep him happy at the expense of Terry. There's something inherently wrong with that even though I understand it.

Terry is also alot better than yall give him credit for, but his minutes are spotty and he can't get in a rythm...then there's the hit to his confidence and the lack of trust the coaching staff has shown him.

And after all that he's still the player that ball-hawked, rebounded, and forced the team to run to the ECF.

People in New england have a bad habit of crapping on their best gems.

I almost wish they would trade him and yall see him three years from now, and Danny's still chasing his tail trying to find pieces he already had.

About as bone-headed as Pitino.

Also, a point needs to feel like it's "his team". He had that in the playoffs, and they took it all away from him this year, so why would you expect him to play like it's his team?

He's in a totally different position now and plays like it.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 10:57:51 AM by Triplenickle »

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2019, 10:59:29 AM »

Offline Green-18

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2019, 11:00:12 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I'm stunned at the way some have blamed Tatum and Brown for falling back. Look these guys were on a upward trend and trying to incorporate Kyrie and Hayward back into the system has stunted their growth. It's not their fault...blame Stevens.

Would we have a higher seed had we let them keep growing...Yes.

Kyrie hasn't embraced their growth and that's part of the problem. It's not like Stevens could bench Kyrie but he could've pushed for them to be more go-to guys. Now everyone wants to act like the playoff run last year was a fluke. Um, they waxed Philly and a Bucks team and were up 2-0 on Bron, so it's hard for me to blame them this year.

If you stayed in a 5 star hotel for 3 months and then someone said now you need to go stay in the Motel 6, you'd have a problem too.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2019, 11:07:38 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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I'm stunned at the way some have blamed Tatum and Brown for falling back. Look these guys were on a upward trend and trying to incorporate Kyrie and Hayward back into the system has stunted their growth. It's not their fault...blame Stevens.

Would we have a higher seed had we let them keep growing...Yes.

Kyrie hasn't embraced their growth and that's part of the problem. It's not like Stevens could bench Kyrie but he could've pushed for them to be more go-to guys. Now everyone wants to act like the playoff run last year was a fluke. Um, they waxed Philly and a Bucks team and were up 2-0 on Bron, so it's hard for me to blame them this year.

If you stayed in a 5 star hotel for 3 months and then someone said now you need to go stay in the Motel 6, you'd have a problem too.
Jesus, the amount of excuses these guys get is insane. It's always Kyrie's fault, or Hayward's fault, or Brad's fault, or Danny's fault, or maybe it's the training facility's fault all of our young guy are underachieving like crazy.
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2019, 11:08:43 AM »

Online Donoghus

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I'm stunned at the way some have blamed Tatum and Brown for falling back. Look these guys were on a upward trend and trying to incorporate Kyrie and Hayward back into the system has stunted their growth. It's not their fault...blame Stevens.

Would we have a higher seed had we let them keep growing...Yes.

Kyrie hasn't embraced their growth and that's part of the problem. It's not like Stevens could bench Kyrie but he could've pushed for them to be more go-to guys. Now everyone wants to act like the playoff run last year was a fluke. Um, they waxed Philly and a Bucks team and were up 2-0 on Bron, so it's hard for me to blame them this year.

If you stayed in a 5 star hotel for 3 months and then someone said now you need to go stay in the Motel 6, you'd have a problem too.

Kyrie's APG are up two assists per game this season so not buying that.  Do you want to throw something else at the wall and hope that it sticks?
 
At some point, you have to hold these players culpable for their own play and stop pointing fingers at the coaching staff & Kyrie for any problems the young guys might be having.


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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2019, 11:08:45 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I'm stunned at the way some have blamed Tatum and Brown for falling back. Look these guys were on a upward trend and trying to incorporate Kyrie and Hayward back into the system has stunted their growth. It's not their fault...blame Stevens.

Would we have a higher seed had we let them keep growing...Yes.

Kyrie hasn't embraced their growth and that's part of the problem. It's not like Stevens could bench Kyrie but he could've pushed for them to be more go-to guys. Now everyone wants to act like the playoff run last year was a fluke. Um, they waxed Philly and a Bucks team and were up 2-0 on Bron, so it's hard for me to blame them this year.

If you stayed in a 5 star hotel for 3 months and then someone said now you need to go stay in the Motel 6, you'd have a problem too.

Regarding Tatum, I don't think his struggles fall on Kyrie or Brad.  It's all part of the growth process, which I don't believe Kyrie has restricted at all.  As I mentioned in my post above, Tatum has struggled with the corner three since the playoffs began last season.  The downtrend started as soon as he was required to become a focal point of the offense.

Sure, we could blame Brad for not asking Tatum to become a "role" player again.  The Celtics would probably be a better team if Tatum focused on nothing more than his rookie responsibilities.  That said, most of the time you need to learn by failing.  Many great players have struggled to build off of excellent rookie campaigns.

Rozier is a different story because this is year four.  I'll be patiently waiting to see how Tatum performs in the playoffs.  I'm expecting much more consistent effort when the stakes are at their highest. 
   

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2019, 11:10:46 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Agreed.  The most interesting regression for Tatum has been the corner three.  He shot 56% from the corner last year, as opposed to only 33% this season.  The decline started as soon as he was asked to become more than a "role player", with the playoffs being a perfect example.  As others have mentioned, Tatum has a tendency to let shooting struggles affect his defensive effort.

It just goes to show how difficult it can be to make the jump from a "role" player to "star" player.  The second year growing pains are no surprise.  All I care about is that he gives max effort in the playoffs regardless of whether or not the shots are falling.

Next year we should expect a major jump from Tatum.

I don't blame Tatum or any other player for their defensive issues. That is most definitely a coaching issue. And a system issue.

I'll tell you why...switching breeds weak defense because it tells the player to give a half ass effort because the next man will get him. You can never hold your ground because everyone's constantly sliding out of the way.

I absolutely HATE that defensive scheme. It should only be used in spots to give a different look or stop a run.

I wish Brad would take that and just go.  The fact he never changes that is why I want him gone.

Like tomorrow.

And the defense stays a step behind the ball so the man picking up the defender is switching to a guy ALREADY IN MOTION. It's like trying to stop a guy on the fastbreak with a head of steam...you're just not gonna be able to stop him without fouling...so to not get called they all give a half-assed effort with the matador mess.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 11:19:32 AM by Triplenickle »

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2019, 11:13:08 AM »

Online Donoghus

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And JB, Smart, Tatum, Terry and Al have already proven what their capable of under playoff pressure.  Questioning those guys now because the coaching staff hasn't gotten it together is kind of retarded.

Coaching is only part of the problem, though.  Guys like Tatum & Rozier look like they've regressed to an extent from last year.   That's on them to a degree.

Man, yall need to give that dude some slack. He has taken the biggest hit and biggest burden of anyone. He was a HUGE part of why they overacheived and then they demote him to wannamaker status IN A CONTRACT YEAR...basically just because Kyrie looks good scoring, and they want to keep him happy at the expense of Terry. There's something inherently wrong with that even though I understand it.

Terry is also alot better than yall give him credit for, but his minutes are spotty and he can't get in a rythm...then there's the hit to his confidence and the lack of trust the coaching staff has shown him.

And after all that he's still the player that ball-hawked, rebounded, and forced the team to run to the ECF.

People in New england have a bad habit of crapping on their best gems.

I almost wish they would trade him and yall see him three years from now, and Danny's still chasing his tail trying to find pieces he already had.

About as bone-headed as Pitino.

Also, a point needs to feel like it's "his team". He had that in the playoffs, and they took it all away from him this year, so why would you expect him to play like it's his team?

He's in a totally different position now and plays like it.

If he can't adapt to the system, then that's an indictment on Rozier & not the coaching staff.  Buy into the team concept & the role you're given whatever that may be.

If he's fussy because "his role was taken away from him" and this year's play is a reaction to that, then let him leave in free agency.  Find me cheaper alternative backup PG who will buy into the team concept & system.


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