Great podcast / Brad Stevens catching buzz around league w/ players and coaches

[Snakehead]

Well, what about the Cavs? The league's laughingstock last year with constant rumors of turmoil, front office incompetence, etc. Besides LeBron, they added a bunch of guys from lottery teams like Shumpert, JR Smith, and Mozgov. Kevin Love was widely considered a quitter who was overrated and cared only about his numbers in Minnesota. Still, they went to the Finals their first season together.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the Celtics valuing team culture and all that. I like to root for a team that does things the right way instead of just rooting for laundry. However, I'm fully aware that just having team chemistry doesn't guarantee anything, talent is just as or even more important.

If Ainge could trade a bunch of these so-called hard-working, smart, team-oriented non-stars for noted malcontent DeMarcus Cousins tomorrow, he would do it in an instant.

You can't just say "LeBron aside".  He is that guy and you can see his influence on players all over the place.  He holds them accountable and is a leader.  As colincb pointed out, he basically had enough of Waiters right from the start (and for good reason) and I'm sure that sent a message to all the other young players.  They also had multiple other veterans who have been around the league for a while, including Marion, Miller, James Jones, Haywood, Perkins.

The Cavs before LeBron are a good example for my argument that veterans and leadership matter because they were a mess.  And coaches too.  Not that I'm the biggest Blatt fan so far but he's better than what the Cavs had before.

I don't see the problem with the other players they added too.  I dislike Smith quite a bit, but Shumpert was always the hardest playing guy on the Knicks and Mozgov was always a good big.  I'm not saying the team has to win a ton of games.  Our Celtics team just barely made the Playoffs.  It's about culture, leadership, giving an honest effort, and your coach and organization.

And to the second point, I'm not saying our team is great as is or the personnel is perfect or anything.  I would trade for Cousins in a second too (I think he is volatile but he's had a terrible situation to start his career and it has almost never gotten any better in Sac).  But when we do that, we have a good atmosphere for him to come into where there is a focus on the right things and all that would help Cousins I think quite a bit.  If he was in a better situation, like I think he would be in Boston, I think he would develop into a better player as a result of these factors.

So basically, I think the Cavs are a bit different and I'm really talking more to a rebuilding approach.  I just have seen a lot of support for the 76ers approach and I think it's not the right way to go.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I liked the part about him bashing Philly.  Basically saying what many argue matters: how you run your organization and if you're giving an honest effort to wins games matters.  Dudley says he doesn't like how they do business and has no interest in playing there.  He is fine with being in situation where you maybe "tank" part of your season and gets it but no effort for multiple years he has no interest in participating in.

For context, he was asked if he'd rather play for the Kings or 76ers and he said Kings by far.

Ehhh... Feeling's mutual there.

He's the exact type of the guy the Sixers have no interest in right now... Rebuilding teams don't need a Jared Dudley, he's a viable back end of the rotation guy. It makes no sense for either side to go for the other.

 Injuries aside Embiid seems to be floundering (reports of blowing off rehab, putting on weight, etc.). Who's gonna speak into his life? One of their 23 min salary guys? Wroten or another guy their same age? Maaaaybe Jason Richardson...

You've gotta be kidding right? They traded for a 29 year old Prince from his native country last year... Why do you think Mbah a Moute was on the Sixers last year again?

Jared Dudley is a solid 30 year journeyman who can help a fringe contender. On a rebuilding team he's the guy getting his and looking for a trade. He's flat out said he'd request a trade if he didn't like his playing time and go to the team who pays him the most money on the podcast.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I liked the part about him bashing Philly.  Basically saying what many argue matters: how you run your organization and if you're giving an honest effort to wins games matters.  Dudley says he doesn't like how they do business and has no interest in playing there.  He is fine with being in situation where you maybe "tank" part of your season and gets it but no effort for multiple years he has no interest in participating in.

For context, he was asked if he'd rather play for the Kings or 76ers and he said Kings by far.

Ehhh... Feeling's mutual there.

He's the exact type of the guy the Sixers have no interest in right now... Rebuilding teams don't need a Jared Dudley, he's a viable back end of the rotation guy. It makes no sense for either side to go for the other.

I disagree. Teams like the Sixers actually do need 1-2 Jared Dudley's to teach the rebuilders how to win. It was fascinating hearing how he did that w Giannis. In fact I think this is PHI's fatal flaw -- IMO you can't wait to instill culture and teach winning until you have the pieces to win with -- it's gotta be concurrent.

How much better would a guy like Antoine have been if he'd not been "the man" on a horrible team and allowed to develop lots of small bad habits? Injuries aside Embiid seems to be floundering (reports of blowing off rehab, putting on weight, etc.). Who's gonna speak into his life? One of their 23 min salary guys? Wroten or another guy their same age? Maaaaybe Jason Richardson...

Jared Dudley's, Gerald Wallace's even 39 y.o. KGs will stop that nonsense on a team. Wall and Beal both talked about Pierces influence even though he's clearly a fraction of THE TRUTH at this point...

TP.  Well put.

You hear every great player talk about the vets that showed them the way, and often it's not even some top level player that is that veteran leader type that was their mentor.  It's a reality of how the game works and how players developing isn't like NBA 2K where it happens no matter what is around them.  It takes a positive environment.  Veterans, coaches, and the organization matter.  Giving an effort to win matters. 

I think it's pretty plain to see and you hear the same stories over and over that all this matters but lots of fans these days act like it doesn't.  Do they just not believe all these players that have been there and said this is how it works?  Do they not see all the failures?  Obviously there are no guarantees either way, but I love how the Celtics are going about things and think that this style will develop all our young players to their best potential, wherever that lies.

Where are the results then?

KO, Sullinger, Smart, Young... Where are these perennial all-stars that are maxing out their potential?

Sullinger can't get in shape, Olynyk's an ok player but he's pretty old for a 3rd year guy, Marcus Smart used that mentoring for a horrifically inefficient offensive performance, and James Young was relegated to the D-League.

Smart's season was pretty comparable to Noel's in that their strengths on one side translated but their weaknesses on the other did too, and none of the other guys have really demonstrated the potential to be a starter on a good team.

For all the talk about how terrible the development without veterans is where's the evidence? Not to mention Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Jason Richardson(whose been on both ends of the spectrum with the Warriors), Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, etc. have been on the roster in the past year or two.

Players are going to make it if they're talented and work hard. I'd much rather have a team with few veterans than a team with Rajon Rondo pounding the ball, not giving any effort on defense and cashing checks until he gets traded.

I've seen that movie. It was the 2013-14 version of the Sixers and it was brutal.

[Lakersalltheway]

I love Stevens.  Ainge nailed that hire.  As for my beloved Lakers, we have the quite possibly the worst coach in the league!