PP VS Kobe and Ray vs Kobe head to head over the years

[wahz]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=piercpa01&p2=bryanko01

I knew Paul had outplayed him but even I who despise Kobe, was shocked by this.

Maybe Doc should get the memo. PP eats Kobe for lunch, AND dinner.

Maybe Allen on Radman with help down low.

Later on in the thread I will post the Ray vs Kobe matchup

[wahz]

Hey I am saying PP owned him because of the drastic difference in shooting % and the fact that the celts were 7 and 7 against LA while Kobe had a better supporting cast over the years. Just clarifying.

[wdleehi]

They basically have been canceling each other out.



Comes down to KG/Ray/roll players vs. Gasol/Odom/roll players.



That is advantage, Celtics.

[Brendan]

Hey I am saying PP owned him because of the drastic difference in shooting % and the fact that the celts were 7 and 7 against LA while Kobe had a better supporting cast over the years. Just clarifying.

Pierce's TO's balance that out though with 4.1 to 2.8. A missed shot >> a TO. The shocking thing is that head to head they are 7 and 7. But remember LAL got pretty bad between Shaq and Gasol. And the C's were legitimately great this year to get two wins and that was pre-Gasol. I agree with WDL, its probably a draw.

[Bahku]

Interesting ... Kobe outscored Paul 5 times out of 14, (Paul outscored Kobe 9 games out of 14), and one of those was only 1 point. As I've been saying, Kobe has almost always struggled against Paul, and certainly doesn't have the huge games that he does against almost every other team. Paul really burned him with 3-pointers, too, which I was surprised at. To be fair, though, Pierce turned the ball over a lot more, and didn't have as many assits. I think the assist number will change, obviously, as Paul is no longer "carrying" the team by himself. There's so much more than stats, though, and Kobe just plain gets rattled when he plays Pierce ... and I love it!

[Bankshot]

Funny how everyone is picking the Lakers, some ONLY because of the Kobe factor, but totally dismisses Paul Pierce.  The guy has and can matched Kobe's output over the years.  Steven A. said he thinks the Celtics are the better team, but are picking the Lakers because they have Kobe.  Ok

The other thing the so-called "experts" are forgetting or totally dismissing is that defense usually wins out and the Celtics are the best in the league at it.

[wahz]

Its fair to point out that Paul had 1.3 more to's, 18 more exactly, but if you give Paul 18 more missed shots, he is then 118 for 278. Kobe was 125 for 322!!!!

In these games they didn't just cancel each other out. But I understand you guys very well: even if the worst that happens is that at the end of this series Kobe has outplayed Paul, but not by much, can you see us losing? No.

[wahz]

if you want to see two guys who cancelled each other out more or less, this works:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=allenra02&p2=bryanko01

Nice, huh?

[drza44]

These are both extremely interesting comps.  Ray, Kobe, and Pierce all came into the league around the same time, and it is pretty telling that in head-to-head matchups stretching out a decade both Ray and Pierce have consistently stared Kobe down. 

This is the kind of thing that gets me irritated at national media...how can NOBODY have at least mentioned this during their 10-minute diatribe on how Kobe is on another planet from everyone else?

[wahz]

Because they are all morons. Everyone has been drinking the Kobe Koolaid for years. You realize that in games in his career played without Gasol and Shaq, Kobe is still either under .500 or just over. I know in the middle of last year he was under by a few. I am not saying he isn't great. I think this year he has actually played as well as everyone everyone thought he was already playing.

I am not sure Ray is healthy. And I am not sure KG will try to score down low often enough. I am not sure we won't get screwed by the refs.  And I worry Doc will make too many rotation errors. Otherwise I would be SURE we would win.

[Vermont Green]

I think some of you are being overly optimistic if you think PP or RA is going to play even with Kobe in this series.  Kobe is the best right now, now matter what happened in a LAL MIL game in 2001.  Kobe is at the peak of his career and is playing the best ball of his life in these playoffs.  The national media is right about that.  That by itself though, does not mean that the Celtics aren't the better team.  PP does not need to do as much for the Celtics to win as Kobe will have to do for the Lakers to win.

There is not much to go on in trying to break this down.  The Lakers are a totally different team so we essentially have never played them.  Any previous match-up that you try to break down is going to be out of context.  I don't think that Kobe can carry the Lakers to 4 wins like LeBron did against Det last year but I am less sure as to how Gasol is going to contribute.  My sense is that we can neutralize him with our bigs.  I am also unsure about how well we can score agianst the Lakers.  They were able to shut down SA for long stretches but I think SA was beat up and tired.

People are picking the Lakers because they appear to be having an easier time in the playoffs.  They blew away the Spurs who were supposed to be a title contender.  We didn't blow away anyone (not even the Hawks) but played really well in the 4th quarter of our last game and came up really big a few other times.

[Analyst]

The Celtic's under Doc play team D as opposed to individual D which is why they are so good at stopping other teams best players. Even so, I'd still take Pierce's D over Kobe's any day of the week. Kobe plays great D in small spurts that make great highlites on ESPN. Pierce (this year) play's great D the who game.

Shooting% against Boston 2008:
Bryant: .326
Anthony: .367
James: .414
McGrady: .364
Nowitzky: .439

[Bankshot]

if you want to see two guys who cancelled each other out more or less, this works:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=allenra02&p2=bryanko01

Nice, huh?

So we have two guys that can on occasion match Kobe's output. Nice!

[Mr October]

TP, wahz! Thanks for the stats. This is really going to be a heck of a match up! Pierce has been ON in the post season, especially in all the big games. He is so locked in right now. And KG has been playing great! He's dominated in spurts and has been very consistent. If Ray can bring it too, then LA will have their hands full indeed.

[celticmaestro]

tp for the stats wahz, but i have to say, in the playoffs - particularly in the finals - all form and statistics go out the window.