Trade Irving for the sake of the team

[nickagneta]

Not sure how anyone can have that critical a take on Kyrie's defense this year. His effort has been tremendous and he is easily playing the best defense of his career this year. As a whole, he has been a pleasant surprise defensively, imo. Really not bad at all.

Probably true - but this group is like two different teams with Irving and without him ..................... and there is a noticeable difference in defensive effort and offensive ball movement when he does not play, whatever the reason may be.

The ball movement stuff people that don't like Kyrie spout is pure rubbish. During the game a stat came up showing Boston making over 300 passes a game in December, up considerably from November. It resulted in the offense being the highest scoring amount in the league in December. Kyrie missed only one December game while leading the team in assists at 7.2 per game. This season's lack of ball movement was a team thing, earlier this year, not a Kyrie thing.

This will likely be ignored because you provided actual stats that support your argument.

Nick also backed up the same with Rondo

Irving passes are one and done usually with little time left on the clock

Where are the 2nd and 3rd passes?

This is what he is not getting... the "eye test" shows the ball is in one players hand (Irving) a good chunk of the game... and team synergy on both ends = low

Vs tonight the passing starts early and at least 2- 3 players get a touch before making baskets (easier ones).  There was almost no "force" shots tonight

Actually Irving is 2nd or 1st in the league with "hockey assists"

[johnnygreen]

I’m very happy that the Celtics have Danny Ainge making these types of decisions. A former player that knows there is a difference between the level of play between the regular season and the playoffs, and also the effect star players make in big games. I feel like many of the trade Kyrie posters are being too short sighted and too focused on the regular season. Danny waited to cash in on some of his blue chips to get a player of Kyrie’s caliber, because he knows star players are the biggest difference in advancing further into the playoffs.

I have zero doubt that a healthy Kyrie would have been the difference in the ECF last season, and Boston would have made the Finals. The Celtics had a great playoff run last season, even without Kyrie, but let’s not fool ourselves. The Celtics were the #2 seed last season because Kyrie helped get them there during the regular season. As the first round series against Milwaukee proved, the home team won every game that series, so being the higher seed was the biggest difference. I still don’t think beating Philly in the second round was a big deal. That team’s two best players were basically rookies, and the team as a whole was just happy to have finally made the playoffs after tanking for so long. Cleveland was ripe for the taking, but they had the star player and Boston didn’t.

As for the ball movement argument late in games, could it be that the coach wants his best player to have the ball in his hands? If Kyrie is not playing like the coach wants, then wouldn’t Brad Stevens just bench him? I agree that ball movement is a good thing, but if it’s late in the game, it could also mean that the team doesn’t have a closer they trust.

[slamtheking]

saw the thread title and immediately knew it needed to be corrected to "trade Irving for the sake of the other team"  because moving him removes our top scorer that can get us the buckets we need down the stretch of close games.

[Rosco917]

That's what we need to do, trade our only legitimate closer. Perhaps the best closer in basketball for ADDITIONAL mediocre talent.   

How about this instead...wait for the team to get healthy, including Gordan Hayward and then evaluate from a standpoint of common sense.

[nickagneta]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

Yes

With an engaged/synergetic Horford, Hayward, Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Smart

If Celts had a healthy Hayward team would beat the Cavs..... not so sure now if team had only a healthy Kyrie

Is synergy your new word?

[Tr1boy]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

I will assume you are asking about this season....and the answer to that is maybe, maybe not.

Team has been a hot mess at times, but IMO no fault of Irvings and instead that issue rests with Terry britches being too big, Brown deciding to revert to Junior Varsity basketball, Gordon being garbage and Horford getting older and continuing to play out of position.

Did you see this yesterday?

[mmmmm]

Trading Kyrie for Kawhi and starting Rozier might have made sense.

Trading Kyrie as a mid-season rental and starting Rozier is foolhardy.

doesn't it depend on the package.  What about something like this?

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

That would seemingly make sense for all 3 teams.  I mean I get it would be nice to have Davis with Irving, but if it is was one or the other I'd much rather have Davis even at the expense of other assets. 

So post trade

Boston
PG - Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
SG - Hayward, Smart, Moore
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Davis, Morris, Theis
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I think that team is more likely to not only win the east but also the championship.  That team has a bit more certainty this summer since Davis is locked up next year.

I don't want to hate on Kyrie and I really don't want to lose Jaylen ... and I don't want to get into whether such a trade would ever realistically happen .... but man, I gotta admit that the resulting roster of that transaction is pretty awesome.   A Davis+Horford+Tatum front court would be ridiculous.

[fingerlakes]

Very interesting topic.  Paul Pierce and Jalen Rose touched on it quite a bit last night and how the ball moves much better when Kyrie is not playing. Many people see it and most of us miss the ball movement we saw during our playoff run last year.  I for one am tired of Kyrie.  He is a prima donna and I am tired of his mouth and his interviews are brutal.  He thinks he is much smarter than he actually is and constantly tries to use big words that don't fit.  I am not a huge Felger fan but I remember him calling Kyrie a dink after his first interview after the trade.  I have to agree with Felger on this one.  When Kyrie said he was sacrificing his for the sake of the team last week and that he can do whatever he wants on the floor was the last straw for me.  The kid is kind of a punk and he cannot do whatever he wants on the floor.  He has lost us more than a few games late forcing up crazy shots and ignoring his teammates.  I so miss the personalities of Pierce and Garnett and I don't think Kyrie possesses the necessary leadership skills to win us a championship.  He quit on Lebron and I do not trust him in signing here even though he said already that he wants to return next season.

Almost impossible for the C's to get fair value for Kyrie because of his contract situation. Unless you want us to trade him for Rubio for crying out loud, like jbpats proposed a few posts above.

All you guys who are in favor of trading Kyrie, why not propose some trade ideas as well? It's one thing to say we should trade him and a whole different thing to come up with a realistic trade scenario as well.

Kyrie is about to hit free agency. Chances are that most teams wouldn't feel confident about re-signing him next summer, hence we'd have to find a team willing to take that risk (or trade him for pennies on the dollar).

I did not advocate for a trade.  Cannot see a fit anywhere with him being a free agent.  I just have many doubts about this mans personality and leadership abilities.  The team has been in a funk all season and I wonder if he was the one calling for a players meeting last week,  It just pains me to watch Brown and Rozier and they look like the fun is gone from their games.  Are the kids following Kyrie's lead??  I have my doubts.

[Moranis]

Trading Kyrie for Kawhi and starting Rozier might have made sense.

Trading Kyrie as a mid-season rental and starting Rozier is foolhardy.

doesn't it depend on the package.  What about something like this?

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

That would seemingly make sense for all 3 teams.  I mean I get it would be nice to have Davis with Irving, but if it is was one or the other I'd much rather have Davis even at the expense of other assets. 

So post trade

Boston
PG - Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
SG - Hayward, Smart, Moore
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Davis, Morris, Theis
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I think that team is more likely to not only win the east but also the championship.  That team has a bit more certainty this summer since Davis is locked up next year.

I don't want to hate on Kyrie and I really don't want to lose Jaylen ... and I don't want to get into whether such a trade would ever realistically happen .... but man, I gotta admit that the resulting roster of that transaction is pretty awesome.   A Davis+Horford+Tatum front court would be ridiculous.

There are only like 3 teams that I think would reasonably give up good value for Kyrie, so if he is traded it has to be to NY, Brooklyn, or the Clippers.  I don't think any other team would feel comfortable enough taking a chance on Kyrie not leaving next summer (and frankly maybe only the Knicks do).  The Knicks don't have the type of the players the Celtics would want, but they do have some nice assets (both in young players and Kanter's expiring deal), which is why I was looking at a 3 team trade. 

With the Pelicans losing again and just looking awful on the road, I do think there is a chance that he actually gets moved this year and Boston only comes into play if Irving goes out.  The Knicks assets on their own probably aren't enough for Davis, which is why I added in Brown and Boston's 1st (i.e. the one that will be in the late 20's) plus Yabu as salary filler (and at least a guy worth looking at).  By including Moore, they get out of some long term salary and he would be a solid bench addition for the C's anyway.  Let's the Pelicans really start over, Boston upgrades, and the Knicks get their 2nd star to pair with the Zinger. 

[KGs Knee]

This thread is funny, some of you guys really crack me up.

Thank goodness Danny ain't dumb enough to trade Kyrie for some of the pathetic returns I've seen proposed in this thread.

Rubio? Ricky freakin' Rubio!? LOL.....

[PhoSita]

Ball movement and what not is cool, but in the playoffs, it's hard to win solely by sharing the ball unless you're the 2014 Spurs.

Maybe it's true the team could find a way to win nearly as often without Kyrie as with him.

I don't think the +/- numbers really bear that out, but people will believe what they want to believe.

In the playoffs, you need a guy who can take over for stretches and make those no-no-no-YES type shots.

I get it if Kyrie isn't your cup of tea.  You'd prefer Paul George, or Kevin Durant, or Giannis, or Anthony Davis.


Guess what?  It's not as simple as choosing which superstar you want.  We should be thankful we have one.

[PhoSita]

Trading Kyrie for Kawhi and starting Rozier might have made sense.

Trading Kyrie as a mid-season rental and starting Rozier is foolhardy.

doesn't it depend on the package.  What about something like this?

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

That would seemingly make sense for all 3 teams.  I mean I get it would be nice to have Davis with Irving, but if it is was one or the other I'd much rather have Davis even at the expense of other assets. 

So post trade

Boston
PG - Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
SG - Hayward, Smart, Moore
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Davis, Morris, Theis
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I think that team is more likely to not only win the east but also the championship.  That team has a bit more certainty this summer since Davis is locked up next year.

I don't want to hate on Kyrie and I really don't want to lose Jaylen ... and I don't want to get into whether such a trade would ever realistically happen .... but man, I gotta admit that the resulting roster of that transaction is pretty awesome.   A Davis+Horford+Tatum front court would be ridiculous.

There are only like 3 teams that I think would reasonably give up good value for Kyrie, so if he is traded it has to be to NY, Brooklyn, or the Clippers.  I don't think any other team would feel comfortable enough taking a chance on Kyrie not leaving next summer (and frankly maybe only the Knicks do).  The Knicks don't have the type of the players the Celtics would want, but they do have some nice assets (both in young players and Kanter's expiring deal), which is why I was looking at a 3 team trade. 

With the Pelicans losing again and just looking awful on the road, I do think there is a chance that he actually gets moved this year and Boston only comes into play if Irving goes out.  The Knicks assets on their own probably aren't enough for Davis, which is why I added in Brown and Boston's 1st (i.e. the one that will be in the late 20's) plus Yabu as salary filler (and at least a guy worth looking at).  By including Moore, they get out of some long term salary and he would be a solid bench addition for the C's anyway.  Let's the Pelicans really start over, Boston upgrades, and the Knicks get their 2nd star to pair with the Zinger.

I don't think any of the trades mentioned above are likely to happen.

But -- speaking of the Knicks -- I think if the Celts miss out on Anthony Davis, it wouldnt' shock me if the Celts look into trading pieces for Kristaps.  Assuming, of course, that he looks solid coming back from his injury.

Kristaps would probably be an easier get than AD and would cost less on the cap sheet.

Feels like an Ainge-y move to me.

[Monkhouse]

Trading Kyrie for Kawhi and starting Rozier might have made sense.

Trading Kyrie as a mid-season rental and starting Rozier is foolhardy.

doesn't it depend on the package.  What about something like this?

Boston - Davis, Moore
New York - Irving
New Orleans - Brown, Yabu, Kanter, Knox, Ntkilina, Bos 1st, NY top 5 protected 1st

That would seemingly make sense for all 3 teams.  I mean I get it would be nice to have Davis with Irving, but if it is was one or the other I'd much rather have Davis even at the expense of other assets. 

So post trade

Boston
PG - Rozier, Smart, Wanamaker
SG - Hayward, Smart, Moore
SF - Tatum, Hayward, Semi
PF - Davis, Morris, Theis
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

I think that team is more likely to not only win the east but also the championship.  That team has a bit more certainty this summer since Davis is locked up next year.

I don't want to hate on Kyrie and I really don't want to lose Jaylen ... and I don't want to get into whether such a trade would ever realistically happen .... but man, I gotta admit that the resulting roster of that transaction is pretty awesome.   A Davis+Horford+Tatum front court would be ridiculous.

There are only like 3 teams that I think would reasonably give up good value for Kyrie, so if he is traded it has to be to NY, Brooklyn, or the Clippers.  I don't think any other team would feel comfortable enough taking a chance on Kyrie not leaving next summer (and frankly maybe only the Knicks do).  The Knicks don't have the type of the players the Celtics would want, but they do have some nice assets (both in young players and Kanter's expiring deal), which is why I was looking at a 3 team trade. 

With the Pelicans losing again and just looking awful on the road, I do think there is a chance that he actually gets moved this year and Boston only comes into play if Irving goes out.  The Knicks assets on their own probably aren't enough for Davis, which is why I added in Brown and Boston's 1st (i.e. the one that will be in the late 20's) plus Yabu as salary filler (and at least a guy worth looking at).  By including Moore, they get out of some long term salary and he would be a solid bench addition for the C's anyway.  Let's the Pelicans really start over, Boston upgrades, and the Knicks get their 2nd star to pair with the Zinger.

I don't think any of the trades mentioned above are likely to happen.

But -- speaking of the Knicks -- I think if the Celts miss out on Anthony Davis, it wouldnt' shock me if the Celts look into trading pieces for Kristaps.  Assuming, of course, that he looks solid coming back from his injury.

Kristaps would probably be an easier get than AD and would cost less on the cap sheet.

Feels like an Ainge-y move to me.

Agreed. KP always seemed like a player Ainge might've been high on, plus would cost less, could fit our system better, and he could have a Myles Turner effect. Great friends with Kyrie, and can play 4 or 5. Also would allow Horford to get immediate rest if he's tired. (Top 3 in BPG.)

[Jvalin]

I don't think any of the trades mentioned above are likely to happen.

Yep, exacly. I bet the C's have been pushing for a trade with New Orleans since the day AD got drafted.

If I were the Pels I would be exploring a trade with the Wizards for Otto Porter.

Let's say either Randle or Mirotic + salary filler for Porter (+ Satoransky)

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7dhrshk

[BringToughnessBack]

Do you think the Celtics make it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie?

I think we are in the Finals this year with Kyrie and no team changes.