Author Topic: Thinking Outside of the Box: Tatum, Brown and Adding a Shutdown Defensive Bigman  (Read 7243 times)

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Offline GreenlyGreeny

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None of these trades make any sense from the Utah perspective.

They potentially do if it’s true that Mitchell wants Gobert gone in 2020-2021.
Which by all reports it isn't

If someone had gotten COVID-19 from a coworker because of such clownish behavior, many of them would not want to keep working with that coworker, but they would not exactly broadcast it to the world...

Offline gouki88

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What about this: A three-way deal involving Hayward that gets us Horford again and the 76ers someone they would prefer? Maybe the Clippers would be interested in taking in Hayward and in return giving Doc 2-3 of his guys? Big Al could maybe still slow things down enough for us, and he is still missed...
Big Al is absolutely 100% not missed with that awful contract. No place for him here especially after leaving us for Philly. He can rot there for all I care, he made his bed and he can sleep in it.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline gouki88

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None of these trades make any sense from the Utah perspective.

They potentially do if it’s true that Mitchell wants Gobert gone in 2020-2021.
Which by all reports it isn't

If I had gotten COVID-19 from a coworker because of such clownish behavior, I would not want to keep working with them...
That's you. The recent reports indicate their relationship has recovered
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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None of these trades make any sense from the Utah perspective.

They potentially do if it’s true that Mitchell wants Gobert gone in 2020-2021.
Which by all reports it isn't

If I had gotten COVID-19 from a coworker because of such clownish behavior, I would not want to keep working with them...
That's you. The recent reports indicate their relationship has recovered

Mitchell’s got a reputation as a cheerful, sunny guy to maintain...

The point is, it’s not something that’s going to be publicly available information.

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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What about this: A three-way deal involving Hayward that gets us Horford again and the 76ers someone they would prefer? Maybe the Clippers would be interested in taking in Hayward and in return giving Doc 2-3 of his guys? Big Al could maybe still slow things down enough for us, and he is still missed...
Big Al is absolutely 100% not missed with that awful contract. No place for him here especially after leaving us for Philly. He can rot there for all I care, he made his bed and he can sleep in it.

Well, if not Gobert or Big Al, then which big man defender can we get for Hayward and draft picks? Are there any 4/5’s going into their 2nd or 3rd year who could maybe someday soon blossom into all-NBA defensive teamers? If so, can they be obtained for Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks?

We’ve got three great offensive players in Tatum, Brown and Kemba, and a lockdown defender in the back court with Smart, so it just feels like having a lockdown defender in the front court could be all we need to make it to banner 18 soon.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:15:07 PM by GreenlyGreeny »

Offline gouki88

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What about this: A three-way deal involving Hayward that gets us Horford again and the 76ers someone they would prefer? Maybe the Clippers would be interested in taking in Hayward and in return giving Doc 2-3 of his guys? Big Al could maybe still slow things down enough for us, and he is still missed...
Big Al is absolutely 100% not missed with that awful contract. No place for him here especially after leaving us for Philly. He can rot there for all I care, he made his bed and he can sleep in it.

Well, if not Gobert or Big Al, then which big man defender can we get for Hayward and draft picks? Are there any 4/5’s going into their 2nd or 3rd year who could maybe someday soon blossom into all-NBA defensive teamers? If so, can they be obtained for Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks?

We’ve got three great offensive players in Tatum, Brown and Kemba, and a lockdown defender in the back court with Smart, so it just feels like having a lockdown defender in the front court could be all we need to make it to banner 18 soon.
I think Jarrett Allen will develop into a great rim-protecting big man if he can get away from Brooklyn, as KD and Irving want Jordan to start for some reason.

What if the answer is Timelord..?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Online RJ87

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What about this: A three-way deal involving Hayward that gets us Horford again and the 76ers someone they would prefer? Maybe the Clippers would be interested in taking in Hayward and in return giving Doc 2-3 of his guys? Big Al could maybe still slow things down enough for us, and he is still missed...
Big Al is absolutely 100% not missed with that awful contract. No place for him here especially after leaving us for Philly. He can rot there for all I care, he made his bed and he can sleep in it.

TP. Al's time here has come and gone. Let's all move on.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I hope Timelord becomes that rim-protector we all hope and dream of, but that’s at least 2-3 years of waiting, no? Maybe we get lucky and pull the trigger for Gobert, win in 2021, Gobert leaves and Williams does an adequate job in 2022 and bang-up job in 2023 after spending 2020-2021 watching Gobert? There’s really no role model for Williams right now.

One other dynamic to the Gobert situation: It’s possible Gobert has made it clear to the Jazz brass that he’s leaving next season, preferably for a team on the east coast that is closer to France. Quin Snyder is brilliant with young guys and he’s in it for the long-haul like Jerry Sloan before him, so he could strongly value getting our 2020 first-round picks to make sure not to lose Stifle Tower for nothing. Hayward would be the piece to make the dollars work. Perhaps they pull in another third team that is willing to give up an additional 2022 or 2023 first-rounder to get Hayward, so Snyder gets four first-round picks to continue building around Mitchell? Four first-round picks for a 2-time defensive player of the year on an expiring contract is a coup. The 2020 picks are not an overpay for us, and Hayward for a first-round pick on a contender (read: not a lottery pick) is worthwhile to a team trying to get one last thing to push them over the edge.

Offline Somebody

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For outside the box try a better group effort. Upgrade the bench and improve the starting line up. I'd sign Favors with the MLE but before that do a three way trade.

C's trade Hayward, picks 26, 30, 47 and VP
C's get Myles Turner and Terrence Ross.

Pacers trade Turner
Pacers get Aaron Gordon, VP and pick 30.

Magic trade Gordon and Ross
Magic get Hayward, picks 26 and 47.

C's end up with a center that fits and bench is upgraded.

Pacers get a better PF fit for Sabonis plus a 1st.

Magic get a better SF fit, a first, and second. Also if they don't like the fit Hayward is expiring so it can equal cap space the next year.

All three teams win.

C's end up as
PG-Walker, Smart, Edwards
SG-Brown, Langford, Green*
SF-Tatum, Ross, Semi*
PF-Theis, GW, pick 14*
C-Turner, Favors, TL

You could be flexible start Smart at times or Theis. Without a doubt you are 9 deep. Also all the bigs in the main rotation (Turner, Favors, GW and Theis) have some mobility and range game to not clog things up. I like it as a group effort.
not digging that trade.  Not against moving on from Hayward at this point and I was a big Turner fan during his draft and for his first few years in the league but he's not developed past that point.   Seeing Turner as fool's gold at this point ==> rotational big man that won't be a better starter than Theis for us and will need continuous motivation to play with effort.
Competing for a chip and playing here might motivate Turner more. Also as I said it's about a group effort. Throwing a bunch of guys at an AD, Embiid or Bam. Trying to find one guy who can handle them isn't likely. As evidence of Nuggets and Heat. You need a bunch of guys to take down AD one won't do. You need a bunch to go against the 76ers if Simmons is healthy too. We should stock up instead of getting one guy who won't get it done anyways.

Disagree. Gobert was defensive player of the year 2017-2019 and would have won it this year if not for being NBA patient zero. If we want to stop Giannis and then AD, we need an NBA first/second team all-defender big. Gobert is the only one I can see who can pull it off more often than not in a seven game series.
If Gobert can't stop Jokic from going off how is he supposed to stop AD?
To be fair AD isn't even close to Jokic's class as an offensive player.
That’s Fair?!? Is the gap really that big? What is your ranking of top offensive big men?
I do think the gap is pretty significant, Jokic is an MVP level attacker while AD is more of an All-Star/fringe All-NBAer on that end.

As for my ranking of top offensive bigs:
1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Towns (he'll dominate in the playoffs when he eventually makes it again)
4. AD
AD is a distant fourth to me, he can't lead strong offences like the three ahead of him. Great 1B/2 guy though, which is still very valuable. Add in incredible defence and you have a top 4-6 player in the league depending on how Curry and Durant bounce back.
No Embiid in the top 4? I'd probably put him at #3 behind Jokic and KAT.
I think Embiid's lack of passing really hurts him, which is even more exposed in the playoffs. Whereas Jokic is one of if not the best passing big of all time, Giannis is a good passer, KAT is a good passer and Davis is a pretty solid passer
^this. Embiid hasn't really shown that he can playmake well enough to prevent teams from just absorbing his monster scoring, which was what we did in the first round to sweep the Sixers (obviously we just out-talented them in the series, but Embiid had some decent pieces around him and he still couldn't make the Sixers offence look good for prolonged periods). He's probably #5 on my list though.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Offline RodyTur10

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What about this: A three-way deal involving Hayward that gets us Horford again and the 76ers someone they would prefer? Maybe the Clippers would be interested in taking in Hayward and in return giving Doc 2-3 of his guys? Big Al could maybe still slow things down enough for us, and he is still missed...
Big Al is absolutely 100% not missed with that awful contract. No place for him here especially after leaving us for Philly. He can rot there for all I care, he made his bed and he can sleep in it.

Well, if not Gobert or Big Al, then which big man defender can we get for Hayward and draft picks? Are there any 4/5’s going into their 2nd or 3rd year who could maybe someday soon blossom into all-NBA defensive teamers? If so, can they be obtained for Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks?

We’ve got three great offensive players in Tatum, Brown and Kemba, and a lockdown defender in the back court with Smart, so it just feels like having a lockdown defender in the front court could be all we need to make it to banner 18 soon.

Jonathan Isaac (injured), Jarrett Allen, Mitchell Robinson (probably unavailable), Mo Bamba and Robert Williams are the only guys that (loosely) fit your desciption. Luckily the last one of them is already on our roster  :D.

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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Would the Magic trade Bamba for Langford, Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks? I do like the idea of hedging Williams by having him compete with Mamba for the 5.

Offline RodyTur10

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Would the Magic trade Bamba for Langford, Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks? I do like the idea of hedging Williams by having him compete with Mamba for the 5.

I'm pretty sure the Magic would take that offer (Langford, Hayward + 3 first round picks) for Bamba.
We'd have to take some salary back (some combo of Gordon/Ross/Aminu) though.

I find that way too much for a guy who wouldn't be a lottery pick in a re-draft for the 2018 draft class (Doncic, Young, Ayton, Jackson Jr, SGA, Porter Jr, Mitchell Robinson, Mikal Bridges, Sexton, Carter, Bagley, DiVincenzo, Brown Jr, Huerter).

Offline gouki88

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Would the Magic trade Bamba for Langford, Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks? I do like the idea of hedging Williams by having him compete with Mamba for the 5.
That would be a horrible trade, Williams is already better than Bamba
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline SteveD

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Bamba for Langford, Hayward and our 2020 first-round picks does not work financially, nor does it make sense for the Celtics to give up that much for Bamba, who is still a major project.

Offline SteveD

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For Bamba I would only offer Poirier, Langford and the Celts draft pick #26.