CelticsStrong
Beyond the Association => Maine Celtics / G-League => Topic started by: P2 on December 02, 2008, 05:40:11 AM
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http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/boxscore.jsp?gameId=2020800017
34 points on 11-for-15 shooting, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal and 5 blocks!
Walker had a bad game with 6 fouls, 6 turnovers and 0-for-5 from downtown.
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I so excited about those young guns, can't wait to see them play garbage time for the C's :D
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Impressive box score line, indeed.
Someone should create a "rookies in the D-League watch" thread, there was one last season for Pruitt.
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I said in a previous thread about a week ago, that unlike most posters here, I think Giddens could end up being the better player. I liked him better than Walker when we drafted them. Great to see that he's playing well.
Any bets on which guy gets called up first? People thought it would be Walker, but if Giddens keeps outplaying him, he could be called up first.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
;D
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
So maybe that means he shouldn't have been a first round pick, sorta like Patrick O'Bryant. Maybe, Nelson has a point. If you can't dominate the NBDL when you are a first round draft pick then obviously the pick was a mistake in the first place. That's what he felt about POB and maybe he's right.
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I saw the first game in Austin. Giddens looked ok but his outside shot is not pretty. He needs to improve his mid-range game and make that the focus of his offense. Walker had a good game shooting but it was disappointing that he didn't go inside much. His 3-point shot has improved and looked very good. However, he rarely drove to the basket and just stayed on the perimeter all game. It is also a little concerning that he seems to walk with a limp. He just doesn't look 100%. It might just be an issue of some residual soreness and getting full confidence back in the knee.
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Yeah cause Don Nelson has such a great track record with big men...
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I said in a previous thread about a week ago, that unlike most posters here, I think Giddens could end up being the better player. I liked him better than Walker when we drafted them. Great to see that he's playing well.
Any bets on which guy gets called up first? People thought it would be Walker, but if Giddens keeps outplaying him, he could be called up first.
I still think Walker will ultimately be the better player, but I have thought all along that Giddens may be the one getting more playing time this year. He looked like a deer in headlights in the preseason, but overall, his game is much more developed than Walker's (not surprising, since he has about 3 years on him).
I think Walker is going to be taking a longer development path. He has the tools and the attitude to be a hell of a player, but he really needs to develop his perimeter game a lot more before he is contributing in the NBA.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
So maybe that means he shouldn't have been a first round pick, sorta like Patrick O'Bryant. Maybe, Nelson has a point. If you can't dominate the NBDL when you are a first round draft pick then obviously the pick was a mistake in the first place. That's what he felt about POB and maybe he's right.
i think we both got this is the point nick
its just GG bashing is always fun!! I know I know how can I...how can I..... :P
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Yeah cause Don Nelson has such a great track record with big men...
Bob Lanier, Alton Lister, Dirk Nowitzki, and Andris Biedrins have all had tons of success under Nelson for many years. He also took freaks like Manute Bol and Shawn Bradley and made them at least productive. He isn't the best guy with a track record of big man success but he is a lot better than some give him credit for. In his offense the big man isn't the center of the offense but he is the center of his defense.
Those Milwaukee centers of Liston, Mokeski, and Lanier were tough dudes and worked extremely well with Marques Johnson to form a formidable inside force. How quickly we forget that it was Nelson who coached those amazing Bucks teams of the 80's and had a huge developmental hand in turning Dirk into what he is today.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
So maybe that means he shouldn't have been a first round pick, sorta like Patrick O'Bryant. Maybe, Nelson has a point. If you can't dominate the NBDL when you are a first round draft pick then obviously the pick was a mistake in the first place. That's what he felt about POB and maybe he's right.
i think we both got this is the point nick
its just GG bashing is always fun!! I know I know how can I...how can I..... :P
LOL. I just responded and didn't even pay attention that it was you who I was responding to. I should have known that it was a tongue in cheek remark from you Edgar. LOL. Sorry.
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It's clear to me: They will stay in the D-League until at least two of our 12-man group are out for one game.
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I saw the first game in Austin. Giddens looked ok but his outside shot is not pretty. He needs to improve his mid-range game and make that the focus of his offense. Walker had a good game shooting but it was disappointing that he didn't go inside much. His 3-point shot has improved and looked very good. However, he rarely drove to the basket and just stayed on the perimeter all game. It is also a little concerning that he seems to walk with a limp. He just doesn't look 100%. It might just be an issue of some residual soreness and getting full confidence back in the knee.
Great info.
Did you actually go to the game?
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Giddens midrange shot is probably the strength of his shooting game - over the bulk of his collegiate career he has shown a deft touch coming off screens or shooting off the dribble in the 14-17 foot range, which is where a lot of his playmaking comes from as well...
Walker is likely going to take more perimeter shots and use his off-the-dribble shot more than post ups and drives because that is what he needs to work on the most. I would be counter-productive for him to simply go to his strengths and beast inside when he needs development with his range and dribble...
I have seen both these guys play down in the D-League and I am happy to see how they are playing...Giddens did much more on-ball stuff in this game, which is probably what he is best suited for...I think Boston had him working off-ball too much in TC, which he'll have to do some of, but he is a more talented version of Tony Allen IMO and should slash with the ball in his hands as a playmaker at times, not just shoot off curls and such...
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he is a more talented version of Tony Allen IMO and should slash with the ball in his hands as a playmaker at times, not just shoot off curls and such...
Tony was a pretty talented player pre-injury. If Giddens is that good than we're/he is in good shape. I saw all the positives,but What would you say Giddens has to work on then? Playing off the ball?
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i haven't cared less about our rookies in years. Even when Bill Walker had his couple dunks, I was completely underwhelmed and unexcited.
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I saw the first game in Austin. Giddens looked ok but his outside shot is not pretty. He needs to improve his mid-range game and make that the focus of his offense. Walker had a good game shooting but it was disappointing that he didn't go inside much. His 3-point shot has improved and looked very good. However, he rarely drove to the basket and just stayed on the perimeter all game. It is also a little concerning that he seems to walk with a limp. He just doesn't look 100%. It might just be an issue of some residual soreness and getting full confidence back in the knee.
Great info.
Did you actually go to the game?
Yes, I was at the game. Another note, Walker really seems to have a lot of fun on the floor, it just seems like he wants to play and doesn't mind playing in the D-league. One really positive aspect of Giddens game was he hit a jumper (one on one) at the end of the first half and hit the game winner at the end of overtime (threw it in to him with 0.5 seconds and he just caught it towards the corner and barried a jumper). However, he did brick a couple of free throws at the end of regulation that would have sealed the game. Shortly after that he blocked a lay up attempt but the block went all the way out to the 3 point line and they buried a 3 pointer to tie the game.
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Giddens midrange shot is probably the strength of his shooting game - over the bulk of his collegiate career he has shown a deft touch coming off screens or shooting off the dribble in the 14-17 foot range, which is where a lot of his playmaking comes from as well...
Walker is likely going to take more perimeter shots and use his off-the-dribble shot more than post ups and drives because that is what he needs to work on the most. I would be counter-productive for him to simply go to his strengths and beast inside when he needs development with his range and dribble...
I have seen both these guys play down in the D-League and I am happy to see how they are playing...Giddens did much more on-ball stuff in this game, which is probably what he is best suited for...I think Boston had him working off-ball too much in TC, which he'll have to do some of, but he is a more talented version of Tony Allen IMO and should slash with the ball in his hands as a playmaker at times, not just shoot off curls and such...
Does Giddens have the handle right now to slash like Allen (I suppose Allen isn't a great ball handler either, but from what I have read and seen, I thought Giddens had a lot of work to do there)?
And great point about Walker. I really like the fact that he is working on his weaknesses. If he is going to get anything out of this trip to the D-league, that is absolutely what he needs to be doing. He should treat the games almost like a practice...especially since I get the feeling he practices with the intensity of a game anyways.
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Giddens does not have a textbook release of the ball on his jumper(looks very close to barbosas style).Good news is that if giddens is left open he can nail jumpers even out to the three point line.
He is looking more like a SG version of Rondo with seeing his stats in the nbdl.
I would like to give walker and giddens a proper nba chance late this year to next year.
another thing that is hampering us a little is that Danny is an amazing scout. He drafts players and actually develops them better than any gm i've really seen. So with that and our roster situation it would be best next year unless he gets a paul pierce to fall to 29 to 30th range to draft a guy who he can stash overseas or just trade the draft for a future draft pick
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another thing that is hampering us a little is that Danny is an amazing scout. He drafts players and actually develops them better than any gm i've really seen. So with that and our roster situation it would be best next year unless he gets a paul pierce to fall to 29 to 30th range to draft a guy who he can stash overseas or just trade the draft for a future draft pick
Lucky for us, we don't have a first rounder next year (traded to Minny).
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Most important to me was how was their defensive play? Do either have the makings of being good two way players on the next level? So often, especially in baseball, when kids go down to minor leagues they concentrate mainly on offense. I'd like to know how much effort they put in on the defensive end and if they were good defensive players.
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Most important to me was how was their defensive play? Do either have the makings of being good two way players on the next level? So often, especially in baseball, when kids go down to minor leagues they concentrate mainly on offense. I'd like to know how much effort they put in on the defensive end and if they were good defensive players.
the report on JR out of the draft was that he could contribute to a team from the start becuase of his defense, but as i haven't seen a full utah game, and there isn't really a statline that tells good defense... i'm actually wondering the same thing.
this is wear i wish that the celtics owned their d-league counter part (spurs lakers) so that they could control the way their young talent is being coached. if giddens and walker (pruitt as well last year) were being coached to play the same aggressive overwhealming defense that is being played in boston, they would be more prepared to just step right into the big game be it this year or next year.
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Most important to me was how was their defensive play? Do either have the makings of being good two way players on the next level? So often, especially in baseball, when kids go down to minor leagues they concentrate mainly on offense. I'd like to know how much effort they put in on the defensive end and if they were good defensive players.
the report on JR out of the draft was that he could contribute to a team from the start becuase of his defense, but as i haven't seen a full utah game, and there isn't really a statline that tells good defense... i'm actually wondering the same thing.
this is wear i wish that the celtics owned their d-league counter part (spurs lakers) so that they could control the way their young talent is being coached. if giddens and walker (pruitt as well last year) were being coached to play the same aggressive overwhealming defense that is being played in boston, they would be more prepared to just step right into the big game be it this year or next year.
also CSN would probley play thier games on offdays for the big club, which would be cool.
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It's clear to me: They will stay in the D-League until at least two of our 12-man group are out for one game.
I disagree. There wasn't much point to keeping Walker/Giddens on the roster in November because we played so many games and didn't really have any practice time. So there was no point to having them sit in street clothes during games and not be able to practice with the team. Now, the schedule is getting a little better and we are going to have more practices. I would expect one of them to get called up soon so that they are comfortable with the plays and can be called upon if/when needed. They have back to back games of Friday/Saturday and then don't have another one until next Friday, while we have a game on Sunday and don't have another one until Thursday. I would think that at least one of them gets called up after Saturday.
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Giddens should be better than Walker right now. He's two years older and had 2 or so more years of college experience. I still think Walker is the better long-term prospect, but I hope that both pan out. Giddens' older age was one reason he slipped...guys that old with non-stupendous college numbers don't usually become stars and have limited upside...but we'll see. i wish them both success as long as they are celtics
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Woah. Those are some pretty impressive stats. No point of bringing him up anyways. He's not going to play.
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There wasn't much point to keeping Walker/Giddens on the roster in November because we played so many games and didn't really have any practice time.
Good point. The Cs are geared towards winning a championship this year, and Giddens/ Walker are, at best, deep bench back up this year. At worst, they are trade fodder. A few years from now, when the Cs are in a bit of a rebuilding mode, the two of them will be getting good mins for the Cs, putting up solid numbers. But right now, they are where they need to be, which is getting PT in the D League.
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Giddens has to continue to work on his handle, refine his off-the-dribble jumper, and FTs...mainly, he needs to get up to pro level speed and decision making, but he's got a complete game that needs minor polish...
Walker has been a TO machine thus far, which is in line with his questionable decision-making from college...he tends to over-commit to a move and forces things that aren't there...but he's smart and works hard, so I believe he'll improve his decision making rapidly as he works to develop and refine his game.
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It seems that Giddens might really dominate that league. But isn't that what first round picks are supposed to do in the NBDL? At least that's what Don Nelson thinks.
Gerald Green didn't dominate when he was in the Dleague.
So maybe that means he shouldn't have been a first round pick, sorta like Patrick O'Bryant. Maybe, Nelson has a point. If you can't dominate the NBDL when you are a first round draft pick then obviously the pick was a mistake in the first place. That's what he felt about POB and maybe he's right.
How did this thread become about Patrick O'Bryant? We get it okay? You hate the guy.
Anyways, I wanted Giddens in the draft over Walker actually because of his projection as a stellar defender. I look at a future possible backcourt of Rondo and Giddens and I think they could just create havoc. After a tough preseason it's good to see him settling in and showing off his skills. That midrange shot is gonna be big for him. I know when he comes uup he's gonna have to play more off the ball but I'd love to see him coming off curls and screens and being able to make decisions that way because he's clearly not a selfish basketball player.
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Even though its early, Ive also liked Giddens maturity in regards to being sent down to the NBDL. He has said and done all the right things so far and has been a team player. When we first started hearing that he was having a hard time picking things up in practice, and then he was the first one to be sent to the Dleague, the first thought that entered my head was, lets see how he handles it. So far hes done a great job. Doesnt seem like a big deal, but given Giddens attitude issues from the past which is the reason he was able to fall to us in the draft to begin with, it's still worth mentioning and being satisfied with.
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Didn't want to create another thread, but Walker and Giddens had good games once again apparently, Giddens in particular:
http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20081205/RENUTA/recap.html
OREM, Utah, Dec. 5, 2008 -- J.R. Giddens and Bill Walker combined for 43 points to lead the Utah Flash to its first home win of the season, 101-81, over the expansion Reno Bighorns Friday at the Mckay Events Center.
Giddens led all scorers with 24 points, while Walker chipped in 19. Entering the game, the duo of Boston Celtics assignees has averaged a combined 45.3 points, 14.3 rebounds, 4.0 steals and 3.7 blocked shots per game through the Flash’s first three contests.
“We are just excited about getting to play again, and we are working on our game.” Walker said. “The whole time in Boston we were waiting for an opportunity to play, and we are glad to get that opportunity here.”
The Bighorns, who trailed by as many as 18 points in the first half, rallied in the third quarter and the beginning of the fourth period to whittle the Flash lead to six points.
An 8-2 Reno run in the opening minutes of the fourth quarter cut the Flash’s lead to 81-75. But Giddens , who scored 10 fourth-quarter points, led the Flash’s offensive surge in the final seven minutes -- scoring eight of the team's first nine points at the front end of a 20-6 Utah run to close out the game.
I always forget to catch this games online.
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In addition to Giddens 24 points on 11-16, he had 9 rebounds, 2 steals, and 2 blocks. Late in games they have been putting the ball in Giddens' hands which I think is great for his confidence as that was how it was at UNM as well. If he comes back up hopefully his confidence remains intact so he can make some plays and just attacks the rim when the ball gets swung his way. I think he's gonna be a great player for this team eventually.
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Good games for both players again. The only thing i don't like seeing under giddens stats is the number of turnovers he accumulates. 4 plus the past two or three games . Thats pretty much a big no in the celtics new system
Walker on the other hand less than 2 average
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Good games for both players again. The only thing i don't like seeing under giddens stats is the number of turnovers he accumulates. 4 plus the past two or three games . Thats pretty much a big no in the celtics new system
Walker on the other hand less than 2 average
Giddens is averaging 3.5 turnovers, Walker 4.25. And Giddens is handling the ball more, according to the recaps. I'll try to catch tonight's game.
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Good games for both players again. The only thing i don't like seeing under giddens stats is the number of turnovers he accumulates. 4 plus the past two or three games . Thats pretty much a big no in the celtics new system
Walker on the other hand less than 2 average
Giddens is averaging 3.5 turnovers, Walker 4.25. And Giddens is handling the ball more, according to the recaps. I'll try to catch tonight's game.
I'm fine with the JR turnovers. He's handling the ball a lot more than he would here.
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Good games for both players again. The only thing i don't like seeing under giddens stats is the number of turnovers he accumulates. 4 plus the past two or three games . Thats pretty much a big no in the celtics new system
Walker on the other hand less than 2 average
Don't the Celtics lead the NBA in turnovers per game? I think this is another sign that Giddens was MADE for this system. ;)