Author Topic: Fun NBA GM online simulation game  (Read 27539 times)

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Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2013, 06:38:18 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Year 3... 76-6.  Lol

I think Atlanta is the easiest level. I may be wrong though.
Meh... it's just extremely easy to exploit.  It doesn't value prospects at all.  That tends to be the issue with these games... the AI is stupid, the games lack realism and you can very easily build a dynasty.  I just went 80-2 and quit.

Yeah. I used to play DDS and another one I can't remember the name of, both a while back, and in both cases playing became an exercise in finding the exploits. Usually it involved trading picks or prospects.

If I remember it right I DDS over-valued picks, to the point were you could pause the draft and trade your #8 pick for a guy who had just been drafted much higher. It was also pretty easy to find declining teams and trade for picks held by them, because the AI couldn't figure out that, e.g., when Lebron retires Miami is going to stink.

I do like that kind of game though, and the better ones are certainly huge improvements over the name brand games' franchise modes.

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2013, 11:59:53 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Year 3... 76-6.  Lol

I think Atlanta is the easiest level. I may be wrong though.
Meh... it's just extremely easy to exploit.  It doesn't value prospects at all.  That tends to be the issue with these games... the AI is stupid, the games lack realism and you can very easily build a dynasty.  I just went 80-2 and quit.
I tend to agree. I chose a hard location and picked Cleveland.  This is my history

2027: 68-14, made conference finals
2026: 64-18, made second round
2025: 69-13, conference champs
2024: 68-14, made conference finals
2023: 77-5, made conference finals
2022: 77-5, league champs
2021: 78-4, league champs
2020: 77-5, league champs
2019: 81-1, league champs
2018: 80-2, league champs
2017: 79-3, league champs
2016: 78-4, league champs
2015: 67-15, league champs
2014: 63-19, made second round
2013: 77-5, league champs

I can't have a payroll over like 90 million or I lose money so I just keep making trades where I get decent players and 2 future draft picks for a starter to shave payroll.  I can then cash in at least one future pick to build the team back up.  9 titles in my first 10 years including a 7 year stretch where I lost 24 regular season games TOTAL.  Now granted the last few years I have tailed off some with the vast turnover, but still pretty easy with unrealistic trading.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2013, 12:01:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Just finished my next season 2028, finished 69-13, won another title losing just 2 playoff games.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2013, 12:24:53 PM »

Offline bdm860

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I can't have a payroll over like 90 million or I lose money so I just keep making trades where I get decent players and 2 future draft picks for a starter to shave payroll. 

Can you give an example of the type of players (overall/potential) you trade to get a player and draft picks back?  Like are you trading a 75/85 for 2 firsts and a 56/56?  What's the sweet spot to get those trades through?

Only briefly tried it, but whenever I tried to get draft picks back, the other GM would tell me I was crazy.  Once I took the draft picks away the trade goes through.  Haven't messed around enough yet to find the sweet spots to exploit the system though.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 12:35:55 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2013, 05:24:52 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I can't have a payroll over like 90 million or I lose money so I just keep making trades where I get decent players and 2 future draft picks for a starter to shave payroll. 

Can you give an example of the type of players (overall/potential) you trade to get a player and draft picks back?  Like are you trading a 75/85 for 2 firsts and a 56/56?  What's the sweet spot to get those trades through?

Only briefly tried it, but whenever I tried to get draft picks back, the other GM would tell me I was crazy.  Once I took the draft picks away the trade goes through.  Haven't messed around enough yet to find the sweet spots to exploit the system though.
Here is a trade I just made

SG age 25, 17 million expiring contract, OVR 66, POT 75
&
PF age 20, 1st year of rookie deal, OVR 60, POT 76
&
year 3 and 4 second round picks (because I hate 2nd rounders)

FOR

PF age 27, 4 years of max left, OVR 74, POT 74
&
year 3 and 4 first round picks (I have never been able to trade for more than 2 first rounders)


Team I traded with said it was rebuilding and the PF I traded for was the only player on the team with a rating above 57



EDIT: Here is a second trade I just made with a team identified as contending with one of the best players in the game (Multiple time MVP aged 27 with OVR at 79)

PF, age 31, 10.5 million for 4 yrs, OVR & POT 68
&
F, age 26, 8.5 million for 2 yrs, OVR & POT 57

FOR

SG, age 27, 14.1 million for 2 yrs, OVR & POT 68
&
PF, age 25, 1.4 million for 3 yrs, OVR 45, POT 52
&
year 3 and 4 first round picks
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 05:47:49 PM by Moranis »
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2013, 06:55:52 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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So I'll explain the issue I have with these games.  #1 - they are waaaay too easy to exploit... which honestly is fine, because there's something kind of fun about being a god-like GM.  The bigger issue is that they just aren't that engrossing.

Here's the problem...

There are only 5 starting spots in the NBA.  What ends up happening is I end up with arguably the 5 best players in the entire league.  Then my bench is made up of 4-5 players who probably could be allstars elsewhere.  I end up feeling bad for the digital players.  Lol.  Here's why.

#1 - I could have the greatest player of all time... a dude who could be averaging 37 points a night.  But since he's sharing the starting lineup with 4 other superstars, he ends up averaging 22 a night throughout his entire career.  I feel bad about stunting their individual historical significance.  It's silly, but I end up feeling bad about it... other players end up winning the MVP simply because these digital guys teammates who are too [dang] good. 

#2 - The players on my bench... I stunt their entire career.  In several instances of playing games like DDSPB or this, I end up having dudes on my bench who average 5-15 minutes a night... who I eventually let go to another team and they win MVP.  It's just kind of silly.  I'm ruining their entire career by giving them bench warmer minutes behind 5 other superstars.  Eventually, I just lose interest and stop playing.

I think that's the reason why I love "Out of the Park Baseball" so much despite the fact that I hate baseball.  Besides the fact that it's just (by far) the greatest text based sports simulation of all time... it's also just the nature of baseball.

#1 - If I have a 1st baseman who is hitting .350 with 61 home runs and a 1.05 OPS, it doesn't really effect the individual statistical performances of the other 8 batters.  It eliminates the issue I had with the NBA games where I stunt the historical significance of my star players by having them play together.   I could have a SS, 3rd baseman, RF, etc... all chasing history and all breaking records.   Likewise, with pitchers... if I have a starter with a 1.79 ERA winning 25+ games a season, it doesn't really impact the other 4 starters. 

#2 - There are 9 hitters + 5 starting pitchers... more digital guys I can get invested into.  As opposed to 5 basketball players all competing with each other's stats.  Yes, there are still instances where I have a stud guy stuck as a relief pitcher or a stud hitter not getting enough at bats, but it's not as bad as the MVP candidate playing 15 minutes a night in the NBA game.  I typically resolve it in the baseball game by letting the superstar players flee for big money when they get past the age of 35... freeing up space for the young guns.

THen just in general... Out of the Park Baseball is insanely engrossing.  Here's some reasons.

#1 - All the stats of every single player who ever played the game is already built into the game.  YOu can see the records and historical stats throughout the entire history of the game.  You can pull up the season-by-season stats of any single player who ever played.  That makes it extremely fun to compare your guys to the legends... "Woah, this guy is better than Nolan Ryan was!" or "holy crap, this hitter is on pace to break all of Barry Bond's records".

#2 - The league evolves.  Rules change over time.  Teams move cities.  It's also fairly realistic in regards to financials and market size.  It's a bit harder to turn the Pirates into a winner when compared to the Yankees and their massive budgets.

#3 - I love the fact that the computer-generated unique faces actually age.  So for instance, I've had a situation where I've drafted/signed a 15 year old prospect.  I stick him in my minors... over the years I watch as he moves up the ranks from Single A to Double A to Triple A... he shows up on various "top prospects' recruits from my scouting director and the "media"... Eventually I promote him to the majors.  He turns into an allstar... he dominates... he becomes one of the most popular players in the league.  He signs an insanely lucrative contract or two.  Eventually he ages into an aging vet.  He breaks records (the media writes articles about it).  He retires.  He gets inducted in the hall of fame.  Eventually becomes a coach... he moves up the coach ranks.  Wins a world series as a coach... eventually retires in his 70s.  All the while, you can see the same face age from 15 years old to 70s... it's really fun.

#4 - Just the overall depth of the game.  When i first played, I found it odd that none of my prospects were developing into stars. I came to realize that the issue was that my scouting director wasn't very good and the info he was giving me was inaccurate.  I loved that.   Once, I turned the Pirates into a dominant dynasty.  When I got bored, I fled for Chicago.  The Pirates fell apart.  Years later when the Pirates were back to being irrelevant, I saw a computer-generated article (one of countless you can read) talking about a top free agent and which teams he was considering signing.  It mentioned he was considering signing with the Pirates despite the fact they stunk, because of their "great history"... referring to the era where I turned them into a dynasty.  I thought that was incredible.

I've played that game 100+ seasons just watching the league evolve, watching my young guys develop into stars, win awards, make the hall of fame, etc... comparing my best players ever.  It's just a ton of fun.  I've yet to see an NBA game come anywhere close to replicating how fun that game is.   http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball/index.php

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2013, 08:17:21 AM »

Offline Moranis

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So I'll explain the issue I have with these games.  #1 - they are waaaay too easy to exploit... which honestly is fine, because there's something kind of fun about being a god-like GM.  The bigger issue is that they just aren't that engrossing.

Here's the problem...

There are only 5 starting spots in the NBA.  What ends up happening is I end up with arguably the 5 best players in the entire league.  Then my bench is made up of 4-5 players who probably could be allstars elsewhere.  I end up feeling bad for the digital players.  Lol.  Here's why.

#1 - I could have the greatest player of all time... a dude who could be averaging 37 points a night.  But since he's sharing the starting lineup with 4 other superstars, he ends up averaging 22 a night throughout his entire career.  I feel bad about stunting their individual historical significance.  It's silly, but I end up feeling bad about it... other players end up winning the MVP simply because these digital guys teammates who are too [dang] good. 

#2 - The players on my bench... I stunt their entire career.  In several instances of playing games like DDSPB or this, I end up having dudes on my bench who average 5-15 minutes a night... who I eventually let go to another team and they win MVP.  It's just kind of silly.  I'm ruining their entire career by giving them bench warmer minutes behind 5 other superstars.  Eventually, I just lose interest and stop playing.

I think that's the reason why I love "Out of the Park Baseball" so much despite the fact that I hate baseball.  Besides the fact that it's just (by far) the greatest text based sports simulation of all time... it's also just the nature of baseball.

#1 - If I have a 1st baseman who is hitting .350 with 61 home runs and a 1.05 OPS, it doesn't really effect the individual statistical performances of the other 8 batters.  It eliminates the issue I had with the NBA games where I stunt the historical significance of my star players by having them play together.   I could have a SS, 3rd baseman, RF, etc... all chasing history and all breaking records.   Likewise, with pitchers... if I have a starter with a 1.79 ERA winning 25+ games a season, it doesn't really impact the other 4 starters. 

#2 - There are 9 hitters + 5 starting pitchers... more digital guys I can get invested into.  As opposed to 5 basketball players all competing with each other's stats.  Yes, there are still instances where I have a stud guy stuck as a relief pitcher or a stud hitter not getting enough at bats, but it's not as bad as the MVP candidate playing 15 minutes a night in the NBA game.  I typically resolve it in the baseball game by letting the superstar players flee for big money when they get past the age of 35... freeing up space for the young guns.

THen just in general... Out of the Park Baseball is insanely engrossing.  Here's some reasons.

#1 - All the stats of every single player who ever played the game is already built into the game.  YOu can see the records and historical stats throughout the entire history of the game.  You can pull up the season-by-season stats of any single player who ever played.  That makes it extremely fun to compare your guys to the legends... "Woah, this guy is better than Nolan Ryan was!" or "holy crap, this hitter is on pace to break all of Barry Bond's records".

#2 - The league evolves.  Rules change over time.  Teams move cities.  It's also fairly realistic in regards to financials and market size.  It's a bit harder to turn the Pirates into a winner when compared to the Yankees and their massive budgets.

#3 - I love the fact that the computer-generated unique faces actually age.  So for instance, I've had a situation where I've drafted/signed a 15 year old prospect.  I stick him in my minors... over the years I watch as he moves up the ranks from Single A to Double A to Triple A... he shows up on various "top prospects' recruits from my scouting director and the "media"... Eventually I promote him to the majors.  He turns into an allstar... he dominates... he becomes one of the most popular players in the league.  He signs an insanely lucrative contract or two.  Eventually he ages into an aging vet.  He breaks records (the media writes articles about it).  He retires.  He gets inducted in the hall of fame.  Eventually becomes a coach... he moves up the coach ranks.  Wins a world series as a coach... eventually retires in his 70s.  All the while, you can see the same face age from 15 years old to 70s... it's really fun.

#4 - Just the overall depth of the game.  When i first played, I found it odd that none of my prospects were developing into stars. I came to realize that the issue was that my scouting director wasn't very good and the info he was giving me was inaccurate.  I loved that.   Once, I turned the Pirates into a dominant dynasty.  When I got bored, I fled for Chicago.  The Pirates fell apart.  Years later when the Pirates were back to being irrelevant, I saw a computer-generated article (one of countless you can read) talking about a top free agent and which teams he was considering signing.  It mentioned he was considering signing with the Pirates despite the fact they stunk, because of their "great history"... referring to the era where I turned them into a dynasty.  I thought that was incredible.

I've played that game 100+ seasons just watching the league evolve, watching my young guys develop into stars, win awards, make the hall of fame, etc... comparing my best players ever.  It's just a ton of fun.  I've yet to see an NBA game come anywhere close to replicating how fun that game is.   http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball/index.php
I've found a similar reaction to the game, though if you are in a "hard" location it is more difficult since you have to keep your salary number down and can't have unlimited.  Makes it a little more challenging, but not enough to really make a difference.  I will probably play a bit longer and try new things, but I think I've pretty much reached the limit on this one.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2013, 08:44:33 AM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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Did anyone else encounter this phenomenon?

I also found the draft pick imbalance and built a super-team with about 10 guys all rated in the upper 60s and 70s. Paying big luxury tax but it didn't matter because of perennial championships and jacked up ticket prices.

Then at some point, in the offseason, four of my best players outright refuse to negotiate and I have no opportunity to resign them

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2013, 08:48:29 AM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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Ive got a question:

I'm in season 4, just won my first title.  My scouting, coaching, health, and facilities are all paid $20M (highest in league for each). 

Before this offseason, players were always "eager to reach an agreement".  Now all of a sudden this offseason 2/5 of my FA's were "annoyed at you" and even though I had no money to sign any free agents, a lot of them were listed as "Rufuse!" where the Negotiate button is.

Any clues to why?


EDIT - Won another title the following season and free agency was back to normal.  Weird.


Sorry to double up on your post- I just found this. Same question; anyone know what produces this effect?

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2013, 02:30:11 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Ive got a question:

I'm in season 4, just won my first title.  My scouting, coaching, health, and facilities are all paid $20M (highest in league for each). 

Before this offseason, players were always "eager to reach an agreement".  Now all of a sudden this offseason 2/5 of my FA's were "annoyed at you" and even though I had no money to sign any free agents, a lot of them were listed as "Rufuse!" where the Negotiate button is.

Any clues to why?


EDIT - Won another title the following season and free agency was back to normal.  Weird.


Sorry to double up on your post- I just found this. Same question; anyone know what produces this effect?
Well I had that happen when I would constantly sign players and then trade them right after.  A few of the holdovers refused to sign with me.  I've also noticed that if I draft a top tier PF that my current PF gets upset.  All things that seem pretty normal for real basketball.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2013, 02:31:17 PM »

Offline Moranis

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To mix things up, I've decided I will not make any trades and see how that goes.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Fun NBA GM online simulation game
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2013, 03:00:39 PM »

Offline badshar

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It seems there are some questions here regarding how the game actually works. Since I am one of the developers, I can answer some of the questions.

Why some players refuse to sign with you:

The hype and recent history of your team plays a BIG role in players wanting to sign with you. For example, in real life, Dwight Howard wouldn't be excited to sign with the Bobcats. Similarly, if your team has been awful the past couple of years, then you will most likely have free agents not want to sign with you.

Sometimes, your own players will refuse to re-sign with you if they don't get the minutes needed or the team repeatedly fails year-after-year.


As for some exploits like trading a second round pick for a first round pick:

The game is still fairly new. Programming a simulation game that resembles a real-life game isn't very easy to do. Moreover, when you have to specifically make sure that certain situations don't happen, it gets even more difficult. If you have any problems, please write them down and we will work on it. Not trying to name anyone, but many people love to mock these games by pointing out there weaknesses. It takes a lot of time, effort and dedication to build such things. It took this game 5 years to build.

Thanks for reading.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 03:42:30 PM by badshar »