The Hayward S&T: Missed Opportunity? (Merged)

[gouki88]

I was under the impression that all of this became irrelevant when Hayward chose to go to Charlotte.

Did I miss something?  Was there a point at which we could have completed a deal with Indy?

It’s hard to say, but Indy’s GM strongly implied that Hayward would have been a Pacer had the Celtics agreed to terms.

Are you kidding me ??

If true - that is completely unacceptable.
Is this more of Danny's obsession with small ball ?

Well in theory Turner would have been Danny’s and brads type of center. Small ball center. Pritchard is in record saying he overplayed his hand because he didn’t want to drag negotiations. It was absolutely in Danny’s hands. The only acceptable excuse to me would be - Danny was worried Pacers would become an excellent team and be a problem in the playoffs .

I think that absolutely played a part in Ainge hardballing the Pacers - their offence would explode with a guy like Hayward.

Would have been an immensely difficult team to stop scoring. Hayward, Sabonis & Brogdon are all so heady

[Somebody]

I was under the impression that all of this became irrelevant when Hayward chose to go to Charlotte.

Did I miss something?  Was there a point at which we could have completed a deal with Indy?

It’s hard to say, but Indy’s GM strongly implied that Hayward would have been a Pacer had the Celtics agreed to terms.

Are you kidding me ??

If true - that is completely unacceptable.
Is this more of Danny's obsession with small ball ?

Well in theory Turner would have been Danny’s and brads type of center. Small ball center. Pritchard is in record saying he overplayed his hand because he didn’t want to drag negotiations. It was absolutely in Danny’s hands. The only acceptable excuse to me would be - Danny was worried Pacers would become an excellent team and be a problem in the playoffs .

I think that absolutely played a part in Ainge hardballing the Pacers - their offence would explode with a guy like Hayward.

Would have been an immensely difficult team to stop scoring. Hayward, Sabonis & Brogdon are all so heady

No wonder Ainge asked for Oladipo in trade talks. I'm still not sold on Turner - I think he still massively struggles against powerful bigs and elite shooting guards in the playoffs.

[NKY fan]

I was under the impression that all of this became irrelevant when Hayward chose to go to Charlotte.

Did I miss something?  Was there a point at which we could have completed a deal with Indy?

It’s hard to say, but Indy’s GM strongly implied that Hayward would have been a Pacer had the Celtics agreed to terms.

Are you kidding me ??

If true - that is completely unacceptable.
Is this more of Danny's obsession with small ball ?

Well in theory Turner would have been Danny’s and brads type of center. Small ball center. Pritchard is in record saying he overplayed his hand because he didn’t want to drag negotiations. It was absolutely in Danny’s hands. The only acceptable excuse to me would be - Danny was worried Pacers would become an excellent team and be a problem in the playoffs .

I think that absolutely played a part in Ainge hardballing the Pacers - their offence would explode with a guy like Hayward.

Would have been an immensely difficult team to stop scoring. Hayward, Sabonis & Brogdon are all so heady

Well the top 6 players on that Indy team would be all injury prone. There is a really small chance they would all be healthy come playoff time.

[footey]

33% on 4 attempts is bad, and should be criticised.

Disagree.  It’s a perfectly acceptable rate for a center. Again, it’s the same as shooting 50% from inside the line. Does anybody get criticized for that?

And, outside of his first three games, he is shooting 38.9% from three point range.

He’s not a savior, but he would be a pretty good fourth option right now, and McDermott would help as well.

This analysis doesn't hold up really at all. 33% from 3 gives up more possessions to the opposition and slows the offence more than 50% inside the arc. It's not as simple as that equation.

It's all pretty irrelevant given that it wasn't really in our hands

I think that it was in Danny’s hands. If Danny had accepted Turner in trade, he would be here.  Hayward wanted to go to Indiana, and Indiana has suggested that Hayward would have signed there.

It’s water under the bridge now, but it will always be a “what if” with this team.

Pure speculation Roy. He went for the $$. You said that’s what he should do before he even opted out.

PS Gordon scored 39 and hit game winner. My favorite non-Celtic!

[nickagneta]

 If Indy wanted Hayward so bad they could easily have matched the Charlotte offer and continued negotiating with Boston. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hayward's agent, a very good player agent, wouldn't have offered Indy a chance to match Charlotte's offer.

All the stuff coming out of Indy seems like a PR smokescreen to me. It takes three parties to do a sign and trade and Gordo wanted money that Indy looks like they didn't want to pay him. That's the story right there. Everything else is white noise.

[PAOBoston]

Hayward dropped 39 tonight with a game winner. Glad he’s killing it. To have that injury and be where he is is amazing.

[tenn_smoothie]

Hayward dropped 39 tonight with a game winner. Glad he’s killing it. To have that injury and be where he is is amazing.

Hayward sure seems a lot more comfortable as the Top Dog #1 option.
That may have been a bigger factor in him leaving Boston and $34M on the table than we were aware of.
When he first signed with the Celts as a free agent, he was assuming he would be #1 or #1A as a scoring option.
That was before Tatum and Brown blossomed in the playoffs that year with Hayward and Irving injured.

[BringToughnessBack]

The Hayward from this year would have gotten us into the finals easy vs Heat. He definitely plays better as top option on a team. He was insane tonight as was Brown for us. Seeing Hayward be aggressive from start to finish was pretty wild..he appears to be fully back and it took a long time to get back to that level. Watch the highlights from tonight for him- it was insane from beginning to end.

Too bad it just did not gel with our team and timeline. That Hayward with Brown, Tatum and Kemba could make the finals this year. Hope we find a good piece with that trade exception.

[RodyTur10]

If Indy wanted Hayward so bad they could easily have matched the Charlotte offer and continued negotiating with Boston. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hayward's agent, a very good player agent, wouldn't have offered Indy a chance to match Charlotte's offer.

All the stuff coming out of Indy seems like a PR smokescreen to me. It takes three parties to do a sign and trade and Gordo wanted money that Indy looks like they didn't want to pay him. That's the story right there. Everything else is white noise.

Talks between Indiana and Boston had been broken. What was there to talk about for Hayward's agent?
As long as Boston wouldn't agree to the Indiana offer it was impossible for Hayward to sign a contract there.

All the reports say the same: Indiana offered Turner + McDermott + 1st rounder (probably protected). From the beginning it was reported that Turner was on the table and we even had reports that Boston was looking for suitors for Turner to involve a 3rd team. Then we even had a detailed report that Boston wanted Warren + Turner or Oladipo, and wasn't satisfied with the Indiana offer.

Then we had reports that talks between Boston and Indiana had stalled and that there wasn't any progress in these negotiations. And then Hayward signed with the Hornets. We even had an interview by the Indiana GM that they were unwilling to offer anything more than Turner + McDermott + 1st.

There really is no mystery here. I haven't seen any report that would suggest otherwise. Oladipo and Warren were off the table and Ainge wasn't high on Turner, or at least not enough to agree to a sign-and-trade of Hayward to the Pacers.

The only question is whether Hayward would have reconsidered signing with the Pacers if the Hornets would have been in time to come up with their bigger offer. I think Hayward would have preferred to play in Indiana, but that's something we don't really know.

All the other information is out there, in fact more than usual, probably because the Pacers got frustrated that Ainge wasn't willing to accept the offer they deemed very reasonable and it was hurting both franchises (Pacers not getting Hayward, Celtics seeing Hayward leave for nothing).

[RodyTur10]

The Hayward from this year would have gotten us into the finals easy vs Heat. He definitely plays better as top option on a team. He was insane tonight as was Brown for us. Seeing Hayward be aggressive from start to finish was pretty wild..he appears to be fully back and it took a long time to get back to that level. Watch the highlights from tonight for him- it was insane from beginning to end.

Too bad it just did not gel with our team and timeline. That Hayward with Brown, Tatum and Kemba could make the finals this year. Hope we find a good piece with that trade exception.

Hayward was just as good last year. He was back to his Utah level, but he just didn't get the touches with Walker, Tatum and Brown out there. I understand why he wanted to leave. In the Heat series he played while not being 100% healthy.

[boscel33]

Look, yes it was a missed opportunity.  I bet, if Danny were to run it back, he might take the offer Indy was giving us rather than hold out.  That said, once Charlotte threw ridiculous money at GH, it was over!  We still have the large TPE, let's see what happens with it.

[Birdman]

Look, yes it was a missed opportunity.  I bet, if Danny were to run it back, he might take the offer Indy was giving us rather than hold out.  That said, once Charlotte threw ridiculous money at GH, it was over!  We still have the large TPE, let's see what happens with it.

Agree..think Ainge didn’t trade Hayward to Indy just for spite

[jambr380]

If Indy wanted Hayward so bad they could easily have matched the Charlotte offer and continued negotiating with Boston. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hayward's agent, a very good player agent, wouldn't have offered Indy a chance to match Charlotte's offer.

All the stuff coming out of Indy seems like a PR smokescreen to me. It takes three parties to do a sign and trade and Gordo wanted money that Indy looks like they didn't want to pay him. That's the story right there. Everything else is white noise.

It is getting pretty annoying in this thread that people just assume with 100% certainty that Ainge/Pritchard could have gotten this deal done before Hayward's agent actually explored possibilities beyond IND. Sure, I buy that Hayward was interested in going to the Pacers, but the only other team (besides BOS) that he ever actually signed with in the past was CHA; it's just that UTA matched that contract.

Hayward signed for the most money with a franchise/city that he apparently likes. Would I rather have Turner/McDermott/a 1st? Of course, but that seemingly was never in the cards.

[Roy H.]

If Indy wanted Hayward so bad they could easily have matched the Charlotte offer and continued negotiating with Boston. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hayward's agent, a very good player agent, wouldn't have offered Indy a chance to match Charlotte's offer.

All the stuff coming out of Indy seems like a PR smokescreen to me. It takes three parties to do a sign and trade and Gordo wanted money that Indy looks like they didn't want to pay him. That's the story right there. Everything else is white noise.

It is getting pretty annoying in this thread that people just assume with 100% certainty that Ainge/Pritchard could have gotten this deal done before Hayward's agent actually explored possibilities beyond IND. Sure, I buy that Hayward was interested in going to the Pacers, but the only other team (besides BOS) that he ever actually signed with in the past was CHA; it's just that UTA matched that contract.

Hayward signed for the most money with a franchise/city that he apparently likes. Would I rather have Turner/McDermott/a 1st? Of course, but that seemingly was never in the cards.

Since Danny rejected that offer, I guess we will never know with absolute certainty.  I tend to trust the word of a long term, respected GM when he goes on record though.

[jambr380]

If Indy wanted Hayward so bad they could easily have matched the Charlotte offer and continued negotiating with Boston. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hayward's agent, a very good player agent, wouldn't have offered Indy a chance to match Charlotte's offer.

All the stuff coming out of Indy seems like a PR smokescreen to me. It takes three parties to do a sign and trade and Gordo wanted money that Indy looks like they didn't want to pay him. That's the story right there. Everything else is white noise.

It is getting pretty annoying in this thread that people just assume with 100% certainty that Ainge/Pritchard could have gotten this deal done before Hayward's agent actually explored possibilities beyond IND. Sure, I buy that Hayward was interested in going to the Pacers, but the only other team (besides BOS) that he ever actually signed with in the past was CHA; it's just that UTA matched that contract.

Hayward signed for the most money with a franchise/city that he apparently likes. Would I rather have Turner/McDermott/a 1st? Of course, but that seemingly was never in the cards.

Since Danny rejected that offer, I guess we will never know with absolute certainty.  I tend to trust the word of a long term, respected GM when he goes on record though.

I hope that interview with Pritchard isn't indicative of who he is as as a professional - it wasn't very becoming. You are right that we may never know, but I find it hard to believe that Hayward's agent was just ready to accept a deal w/ IND w/o searching for potentially better offers. As nick noted above, if IND was willing to pay $30M/yr, then he would probably be there right now.

But even then there are no guarantees. It was seemingly important for Hayward to spread his wings and show he could be an All-Star/best player on a team again. That wasn't going to happen in BOS or IND. He may have been willing to give up that up to go back home to IND (and getting out of Boston asap), but apparently not for less money. It seems Pritchard and Ainge probably made assumptions about what Hayward really wanted w/o taking into account that it really was up to him in the end.