The Hayward S&T: Missed Opportunity? (Merged)

[jambr380]

I was in favor of bringing in Turner. I thought he'd look a lot better playing his natural position in Boston and would be a defensive anchor.

That said, I'm confused (as others have voiced) as to why this is a conversation when Hayward was a free agent? Even if Ainge had agreed to the Pacer's deal, Hayward was still going to Charlotte because they offered him more money than the Pacers were willing to pay. Ainge's acceptance or refusal of a deal doesn't factor in.

Charlotte came in a little late out of nowhere. No one thought they would stretch Batums $27M deal to open cap space. If Danny agreed to the trade on day one of free agency Turner would be a Celtic .

My understanding is that you're wrong about that. Even if the Celtics and Pacers had agreed on a deal, they couldn't have executed the deal yet. When Charlotte made their offer, it was before any deal could officially have been, technically, finalized. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding is that as long as Indy wasn't going to agree to a larger deal, Hayward was going to Charlotte and there isn't anything the Celts could've done about it.

Incidentally, I just read someone call Myles Turner, Jeff Green and I almost died. I like Turner but this feels very apt.

Nope. Ainge asked for better assets coming in and or hesitated so Charlotte came in a day or two after free agency started. So the window to get a deal done was tight that’s why Indy overpaid ( then Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.ed about it lol)..

Nope - Jordan and Hayward spoke the 1st night of FA to 'close the deal'. That means other discussions had at least taken place when FA opened. I get it, it sucks that IND wouldn't match CHA's deal, but to pretend that you can trade and UFA to any team you desire just isn't true. Danny might have wanted more assets, but that is irrelevant if Hayward was able to accept a bigger deal elsewhere.

It is fine to talk about how Turner could have helped the Cs. Obviously he is a million times better than Thompson, but it is getting pretty annoying that people keep casually tossing out opinion as fact on the matter. If Hayward's agent was just immediately going to jump on the 1st offer without doing his due diligence, then he would have been doing a terrible job.

Besides, the same problem would have existed in IND as with the Cs. They already had Sabonis, Brogdon, Oladipo, and Warren. There were no guarantees he was going to be the top dog there. Going to CHA guaranteed him the #1 spot and they were offering the most money.

[NKY fan]

I was in favor of bringing in Turner. I thought he'd look a lot better playing his natural position in Boston and would be a defensive anchor.

That said, I'm confused (as others have voiced) as to why this is a conversation when Hayward was a free agent? Even if Ainge had agreed to the Pacer's deal, Hayward was still going to Charlotte because they offered him more money than the Pacers were willing to pay. Ainge's acceptance or refusal of a deal doesn't factor in.

Charlotte came in a little late out of nowhere. No one thought they would stretch Batums $27M deal to open cap space. If Danny agreed to the trade on day one of free agency Turner would be a Celtic .

My understanding is that you're wrong about that. Even if the Celtics and Pacers had agreed on a deal, they couldn't have executed the deal yet. When Charlotte made their offer, it was before any deal could officially have been, technically, finalized. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but my understanding is that as long as Indy wasn't going to agree to a larger deal, Hayward was going to Charlotte and there isn't anything the Celts could've done about it.

Incidentally, I just read someone call Myles Turner, Jeff Green and I almost died. I like Turner but this feels very apt.

Nope. Ainge asked for better assets coming in and or hesitated so Charlotte came in a day or two after free agency started. So the window to get a deal done was tight that’s why Indy overpaid ( then Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.ed about it lol)..

Nope - Jordan and Hayward spoke the 1st night of FA to 'close the deal'. That means other discussions had at least taken place when FA opened. I get it, it sucks that IND wouldn't match CHA's deal, but to pretend that you can trade and UFA to any team you desire just isn't true. Danny might have wanted more assets, but that is irrelevant if Hayward was able to accept a bigger deal elsewhere.

It is fine to talk about how Turner could have helped the Cs. Obviously he is a million times better than Thompson, but it is getting pretty annoying that people keep casually tossing out opinion as fact on the matter. If Hayward's agent was just immediately going to jump on the 1st offer without doing his due diligence, then he would have been doing a terrible job.

Besides, the same problem would have existed in IND as with the Cs. They already had Sabonis, Brogdon, Oladipo, and Warren. There were no guarantees he was going to be the top dog there. Going to CHA guaranteed him the #1 spot and they were offering the most money.

All I was pointing is that from everything out there being said publicly by figures involved in the discussions it sounded that: had Danny decided right away he would have had a deal done. The hornets landing Hayward news came 30hrs after free agency began. At the very beginning the Indy offer was the best for Hayward unless he told everyone involved that he is still waiting on charlotte to up his offer I don’t believe what you’re saying. I can see how Hayward would jump on Michael Jordan’s offer right away because that eliminates the uncertainty of sign and trades where 3 parties have to agree plus whatever has to be exchanged adds more uncertainty.
In Hayward signing with Charlotte he got comparable even more money and eliminated all uncertainty. If you account for taxes in Charlotte vs INdy it almost becomes a wash what he gets after tax.
Everything that Danny has said about this debacle is generic stuff he says when something doesn’t go thru. He won’t say we could have had a decent haul for Hayward but things happened out of nowhere.

In the end of the day it won’t matter that much because we would be getting a late first round pick - a player who wouldn’t have seen much playing time plus whatever limited minutes Turner would be getting if it’s true that Danny and Brad didn’t like his game.
McDermott can’t play defense so he would not be playing much either.

[tenn_smoothie]

Danny Ainge chose to acquire Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague instead of making sure Hayward went to Indy for Myles Turner (our badly needed center upgrade) and Doug McDermott (our badly needed shooter off the bench). How is the choice working out ?

Tristan Thompson seemingly used to kill the Celts with his offensive rebounding and defensive ability. I have not seen much of that this season. Jeff Teague has also struggled to put together consistent contributions.

ESPN story from today's NBA page .........

"Turner takes his job as the Pacers' defensive centerpiece too seriously to miss extended time, especially right now when he's in the midst of his best season as a pro. The six-year veteran changed his entire approach this offseason, both physically and mentally.

Entering Wednesday night's game against the Milwaukee Bucks, Turner is averaging 3.9 blocks per game, which would be the most for any player since Hall of Famer Alonzo Mourning in 1998-99. Earlier this season, he blocked at least three shots in 10 consecutive games, the third-longest streak for any player in the past decade."

I know many will question how much control Danny had over where Gordon Hayward signed. However, reports since those negotiations indicate Danny at least had more of a say than he has admitted. I have to think if Danny absolutely wanted Turner and McDermott, he could have made that happen instead of overplaying his hand and asking for too much from Indy.

[Tr1boy]

You mean Doug Mcdermott

Wyc told Danny not to go over the cap(repeat luxury tax)

Look at the pain GSW is dealing with

Likely Danny is going to use some of the smaller TPEs for this season trades (if he makes a move)

And use the large TPE next offseason

Thats my estimate

[tenn_smoothie]

Thanks for the correction, Tr.

I see your point, unless Turner has developed into a championship caliber center.
The center position is the most important piece I see us needing to become consistent contenders.
We also need a playmaking PG and knock-down shooters to be fed by our two rising stars, J & J.

[gouki88]

Hayward’s role in this was just as important. He wanted the extra tens of millions in guaranteed money that he wasn’t getting elsewhere, plus he’d already tried to sign in Charlotte years ago. This wasn’t a case of Danny “picking”

[GreenWarrior]

It isn't. Our bench needs to be better and by better I mean we need veterans we can rely on.

[nickagneta]

Isn't there a thread about this subject elsewhere? Like literally the same exact arguments and bullet points?

[tenn_smoothie]

Isn't there a thread about this subject elsewhere? Like literally the same exact arguments and bullet points?

The reason for the new thread is the ESPN article from today.
So sorry to offend your sensibilities and take up any of your most valuable time, Nick.

I am hoping the rest of you are correct.
I would hate to know that Danny's possible arrogance and disdain for post players might have cost us a key piece.

[PhoSita]

Would rather have TT @ $9 million per year for two years than Turner @ $18 million per year for 3-4 years


In a vacuum it's not a hard choice between the two of them, although I still think TT is going to end up showing his value in the playoffs.

It's incumbent on Danny, as always, to make good use of the extra cap flexibility to bolster the supporting cast.

[Csfan1984]

"I never liked that horse!"

[ChillyWilly]

Would rather have TT @ $9 million per year for two years than Turner @ $18 million per year for 3-4 years


In a vacuum it's not a hard choice between the two of them, although I still think TT is going to end up showing his value in the playoffs.

It's incumbent on Danny, as always, to make good use of the extra cap flexibility to bolster the supporting cast.

He need to get into shape his bod looking like a middle aged YMCA hooper.

[hwangjini_1]

You mean Doug Mcdermott

Wyc told Danny not to go over the cap(repeat luxury tax)

Look at the pain GSW is dealing with

Likely Danny is going to use some of the smaller TPEs for this season trades (if he makes a move)

And use the large TPE next offseason

Thats my estimate

we still trying to beat this drum without mentioned the $18,000,000 turner salary, celtics payroll limits, and how ainge found that no one in the nba values turner enough to take on his his salary?

the consensus is that turner is over paid. this is one reason indiana is willing to let him go.

also, what makes us think that hayward would have definately gone to indiana? would the offer by charlotte have beaten that deal for him? i dont know, but it needs to be considered.

[NKY fan]

You mean Doug Mcdermott

Wyc told Danny not to go over the cap(repeat luxury tax)

Look at the pain GSW is dealing with

Likely Danny is going to use some of the smaller TPEs for this season trades (if he makes a move)

And use the large TPE next offseason

Thats my estimate

we still trying to beat this drum without mentioned the $18,000,000 turner salary, celtics payroll limits, and how ainge found that no one in the nba values turner enough to take on his his salary?

the consensus is that turner is over paid. this is one reason indiana is willing to let him go.

also, what makes us think that hayward would have definately gone to indiana? would the offer by charlotte have beaten that deal for him? i dont know, but it needs to be considered.

Has Danny mentioned this to you during a private conversion ? as he hasn’t made that public in any way lol
Do you know how much Some DPsY make? Do you know how much centers that are DPY candidates and shoot 3s at average clip make?
Why do you think Turner with his average size extension is overpaid?
Only a handful of diehard Danny Ainge supporters concluded in an echo chamber thread that Turner is overpaid and that was before this season and to justify signing Thompson ... who is by the way very overpaid

[gouki88]

You mean Doug Mcdermott

Wyc told Danny not to go over the cap(repeat luxury tax)

Look at the pain GSW is dealing with

Likely Danny is going to use some of the smaller TPEs for this season trades (if he makes a move)

And use the large TPE next offseason

Thats my estimate

we still trying to beat this drum without mentioned the $18,000,000 turner salary, celtics payroll limits, and how ainge found that no one in the nba values turner enough to take on his his salary?

the consensus is that turner is over paid. this is one reason indiana is willing to let him go.

also, what makes us think that hayward would have definately gone to indiana? would the offer by charlotte have beaten that deal for him? i dont know, but it needs to be considered.

Has Danny mentioned this to you during a private conversion ? as he hasn’t made that public in any way lol
Do you know how much Some DPsY make? Do you know how much centers that are DPY candidates and shoot 3s at average clip make?
Why do you think Turner with his average size extension is overpaid?
Only a handful of diehard Danny Ainge supporters concluded in an echo chamber thread that Turner is overpaid and that was before this season and to justify signing Thompson ... who is by the way very overpaid

Who are you describing here? Turner is a below average 3 point shooter.

$20m isn't an overpay for the Turner of this season - however, the Turner of this season is a fluke...