The Hayward S&T: Missed Opportunity? (Merged)

[moiso]

The more time that goes on, the more accurate picture of Turner we will have.  I was initially against acquiring Turner, but when he started out this season playing very well and some boxscores jumped out at me I started to reconsider whether Ainge should have tried a little harder to get him.  Now, looking at his season stats, the only thing different about Turner from previous years is that his blocked shots are off the charts.  Same poor rebounding, career low 33% from 3 if you don't count his rookie year in which he didn't take 3's.  I haven't seen enough to know whether he has become tougher in the paint than he was in prior years.  It would have been a gamble on Ainge's part to get him prior to this year, and I still can't decide if I'd like Turner on this team or not.  I'll know better in a couple months.  As it looks now, I think I'd prefer someone like Jarrett Allen over Turner.  He seems more reliable, gives you more rebounding,  and gives you more minutes than Turner does.

[celts55]

Second guessing coaches and GMs is part of the fun of being a fan.  Debating it with informed fans on a Forum is fun too.  This particular debate seems unusually heated, not sure why people are upset about getting Turner or not.  Oh well.

I think debate is heated because some of us want to prove that Danny takes wrong decisions sometimes while the rest want to prove that we should never second guess his decisions. It’s very similar debate with his drafting especially in the middle of the draft.

Yeah, fair point.  I tend to lean more towards cutting Ainge slack.  For example, many people still gripe about taking Olynyk over Giannis.  Now that was a missed opportunity.  But does that really prove Danny is a bad GM?  Not to me and nor does electing not to trade for Miles Turner.

Fab Melo is the only draft pick where I feel Danny is totally at fault.  Anyone should have been able to see that Fab was a beat slow and would never be an NBA player.  Drafting is hard.  Teams miss on guys all the time, even first picks overall (most recently Fultz) and it seems every draft there is someone who is taken at the end of the 2nd round that becomes a star.

But as I said, second guessing and debating is half the fun of being a fan.

I agree almost entirely.  I find debating interesting.  I think we have enough evidence to argue over whether we’d rather have Turner/McDermott/protected #1 over the TPE.

There are a lot of smart people on here, but I was surprised by seeing so much deflection from the original question.  Danny definitely has his white knights, and that’s okay: I’ve been one too.

But, I’d rather debate the pros and cons, and I’d love for others to chime in.

Pros To The Deal:

1. Turner is just better than what we have.  He’s a prolific shot blocker and three point shooter who doesn’t need the ball.  We would have added him to Theis and Williams for a very good center rotation.

2.  McDermott is an excellent shooter who plays off-ball, something we need.  He would improve the depth substantially, and could either start or come off the bench.

3.  First rounders are the most sought after currency in trades.  The Bucks pick just brought back Jarett Allen, a solid young player.  Houston wanted draft picks over young guys.  With so many contenders unable to trade firsts, we’d have a ton of flexibility.

4.  We wouldn’t have had to trade two second rounders for a trade exception.

5.  We wouldn’t have had to use the MLE on Thompson.  That opens us up to use the Taxpayers MLE on a different player, or to save it for buyouts.

6.  We wouldn’t be hard-capped.

Cons to the Deal:

1.  Danny assessed Turner’s value around the league, and there wasn’t as much interest as hoped for.  It’s hard taking on a guy for three years if you worry his contract will be hard to trade.

2.  Turner had played with four of our guys with Team USA, and the results weren’t spectacular;

3.  McDermott adds little other than floor-stretching;

4.  We would have gone over the luxury tax, meaning we’d essentially be hard-capped and would even have to shed salary to avoid the luxury tax (I think.). This means no using the MLE, because it wouldn’t be affordable;

5.  At the time, Danny didn’t necessarily know how free agency would go.  If Danny makes the trade and then finds out Paul Millsap would have taken our MLE, the trade looks worse;

6.  Yes, offense and shot-blocking improve, but our rebounding takes a hit.  Turner and McDermott are poor rebounders; Thompson is good at it;

7.  Potentially McDermott blocks our younger guys from getting minutes.

I think that’s a fair assessment.

I think it's an excellent assessment. The only thing I would add is, we won't be able to make a fair judgement until we see what is done with the trade exception.

[NKY fan]

Sirius XM NBA @SiriusXMNBA
about 16 minutes ago
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson believe Myles Turner is the early favorite for the Defensive Player of the Year Award. Do you agree? pic.twitter.com/j4eWc6Fraj


😡😡😡

[RodyTur10]

Sirius XM NBA @SiriusXMNBA
about 16 minutes ago
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson believe Myles Turner is the early favorite for the Defensive Player of the Year Award. Do you agree? pic.twitter.com/j4eWc6Fraj

😡😡😡

My list of favorites for DPOY so far, very early in the season:

Favorite: Rudy Gobert (Utah Jazz)
Contenders: Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Ben Simmons (Philadelphia 76ers), Myles Turner (Indiana Pacers)
Outsiders: Clint Capela (Atlanta Hawks), Kawhi Leonard (Los Angeles Clippers), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks)

Ps: looking at a lot of defensive stats it's remarkable how great Nerlens Noel comes out of them (terrible offensively though), has anyone regularly seen the Knicks play and can he confirm the impact of Noel? (he was one of my MLE targets)

[td450]

Sirius XM NBA @SiriusXMNBA
about 16 minutes ago
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson believe Myles Turner is the early favorite for the Defensive Player of the Year Award. Do you agree? pic.twitter.com/j4eWc6Fraj

😡😡😡

My list of favorites for DPOY so far, very early in the season:

Favorite: Rudy Gobert (Utah Jazz)
Contenders: Anthony Davis (Los Angeles Lakers), Ben Simmons (Philadelphia 76ers), Myles Turner (Indiana Pacers)
Outsiders: Clint Capela (Atlanta Hawks), Kawhi Leonard (Los Angeles Clippers), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers), Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks)

Ps: looking at a lot of defensive stats it's remarkable how great Nerlens Noel comes out of them (terrible offensively though), has anyone regularly seen the Knicks play and can he confirm the impact of Noel? (he was one of my MLE targets)

Head to Head 10 games
Embiid 28.4 pts, 12.6 reb, 3.5 assists, 1.9 blk
Turner 8.2 pts, 5.4 reb, 0.6 assists, 1.7 blk

Turner is big but he is not a physical player

[SparzWizard]

Sirius XM NBA @SiriusXMNBA
about 16 minutes ago
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson believe Myles Turner is the early favorite for the Defensive Player of the Year Award. Do you agree? pic.twitter.com/j4eWc6Fraj


😡😡😡

I think Celtics fans are gonna call for Danny's head if Myles Turner wins DPOY

[NKY fan]

Sirius XM NBA @SiriusXMNBA
about 16 minutes ago
Justin Termine and Eddie Johnson believe Myles Turner is the early favorite for the Defensive Player of the Year Award. Do you agree? pic.twitter.com/j4eWc6Fraj


😡😡😡

I think Celtics fans are gonna call for Danny's head if Myles Turner wins DPOY

While I’m aggravated by the thought of it.. I would wait to see how Indy fares against Philly before coming up with something that drastic. It seems like Pacers should be able to go toe to toe with the sixers but will depend on injuries. Both teams are big and have talent up front.

[Big333223]

I was in favor of bringing in Turner. I thought he'd look a lot better playing his natural position in Boston and would be a defensive anchor.

That said, I'm confused (as others have voiced) as to why this is a conversation when Hayward was a free agent? Even if Ainge had agreed to the Pacer's deal, Hayward was still going to Charlotte because they offered him more money than the Pacers were willing to pay. Ainge's acceptance or refusal of a deal doesn't factor in.

[NKY fan]

I was in favor of bringing in Turner. I thought he'd look a lot better playing his natural position in Boston and would be a defensive anchor.

That said, I'm confused (as others have voiced) as to why this is a conversation when Hayward was a free agent? Even if Ainge had agreed to the Pacer's deal, Hayward was still going to Charlotte because they offered him more money than the Pacers were willing to pay. Ainge's acceptance or refusal of a deal doesn't factor in.

Charlotte came in a little late out of nowhere. No one thought they would stretch Batums $27M deal to open cap space. If Danny agreed to the trade on day one of free agency Turner would be a Celtic .

[RodyTur10]

Against the Philadelphia 76ers:

Myles Turner (1/6 FGA) 9pts/5reb in 29 minutes and fouled out........only it wasn't against Joel Embiid (injury/illness), but it was Dwight Howard who dominated 11pts/15reb (12 free throws) in 23 minutes.

Doug McDermott (4/6 FGA) 8pts/5reb in 21 minutes and also fouled out.

[Birdman]

I’m for one, still mad Ainge didn’t do the Indy trade

[Roy H.]

Against the Philadelphia 76ers:

Myles Turner (1/6 FGA) 9pts/5reb in 29 minutes and fouled out........only it wasn't against Joel Embiid (injury/illness), but it was Dwight Howard who dominated 11pts/15reb (12 free throws) in 23 minutes.

Doug McDermott (4/6 FGA) 8pts/5reb in 21 minutes and also fouled out.

Not a great night for Turner, but he has thoroughly outplayed every one of our big men this year.  And for whatever it’s worth, D12 made one FG and had four points when guarded by Turner.

And is there anyone who wouldn’t take McDermott’s eight points in five rebounds on a below average night?  His quiet night is more than any of our bench players average.

[footey]

Against the Philadelphia 76ers:

Myles Turner (1/6 FGA) 9pts/5reb in 29 minutes and fouled out........only it wasn't against Joel Embiid (injury/illness), but it was Dwight Howard who dominated 11pts/15reb (12 free throws) in 23 minutes.

Doug McDermott (4/6 FGA) 8pts/5reb in 21 minutes and also fouled out.

Not a great night for Turner, but he has thoroughly outplayed every one of our big men this year.  And for whatever it’s worth, D12 made one FG and had four points when guarded by Turner.

And is there anyone who wouldn’t take McDermott’s eight points in five rebounds on a below average night?  His quiet night is more than any of our bench players average.

Man you love keeping this thread of yours going. Myles Turner has an awful night, time to re-post how much better the Celtics would be with Myles Turner right now, over their other centers.  Too much snow your way??

[Roy H.]

Against the Philadelphia 76ers:

Myles Turner (1/6 FGA) 9pts/5reb in 29 minutes and fouled out........only it wasn't against Joel Embiid (injury/illness), but it was Dwight Howard who dominated 11pts/15reb (12 free throws) in 23 minutes.

Doug McDermott (4/6 FGA) 8pts/5reb in 21 minutes and also fouled out.

Not a great night for Turner, but he has thoroughly outplayed every one of our big men this year.  And for whatever it’s worth, D12 made one FG and had four points when guarded by Turner.

And is there anyone who wouldn’t take McDermott’s eight points in five rebounds on a below average night?  His quiet night is more than any of our bench players average.

Man you love keeping this thread of yours going. Myles Turner has an awful night, time to re-post how much better the Celtics would be with Myles Turner right now, over their other centers.  Too much snow your way??

I responded to a comment from earlier today.  I’m not sure that your contribution added a lot?

[dannyboy35]

The more time that goes on, the more accurate picture of Turner we will have.  I was initially against acquiring Turner, but when he started out this season playing very well and some boxscores jumped out at me I started to reconsider whether Ainge should have tried a little harder to get him.  Now, looking at his season stats, the only thing different about Turner from previous years is that his blocked shots are off the charts.  Same poor rebounding, career low 33% from 3 if you don't count his rookie year in which he didn't take 3's.  I haven't seen enough to know whether he has become tougher in the paint than he was in prior years.  It would have been a gamble on Ainge's part to get him prior to this year, and I still can't decide if I'd like Turner on this team or not.  I'll know better in a couple months.  As it looks now, I think I'd prefer someone like Jarrett Allen over Turner.  He seems more reliable, gives you more rebounding,  and gives you more minutes than Turner does.

   Turner is one of my least favorite nba players. Has some ability but no heart. He decides when he feels like playing. Can’t stand him. That being said he’s played better than Tristan.