Author Topic: Patriots 2022 Season  (Read 108882 times)

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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #330 on: September 28, 2022, 03:10:58 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.
Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.
sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.
There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?

His rebuttal is going to be that Bill can’t win without Tom and that he has a losing record pre and post Brady.

Well that would be dismissing almost his entire GM career. That would be a goofy statement.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #331 on: September 28, 2022, 03:20:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.
Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.
sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.
There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?
There are all sorts of metrics on those things.  The 3 main ones most commonly rated are: How you do with early round draft picks.  How you do with late round draft picks.  How you do with free agent signings.  The next main rating metric, which isn't as common in the NFL, is of course trading. Bill has been a fairly solid late round drafter, he has been about average in trades, but he hasn't been nearly as good early in the draft or in free agency.  The guys I listed all rate higher overall in those main rating categories.  So that is how I would measure how good a GM is i.e. how well do they do in the draft, free agency, and trades and because the early rounds and late rounds are vastly different, most places separate those. 

And obviously gold is correct, I do think Brady is far more important to the Patriots winning championships than Bill is, but Bill did draft and develop Brady so he has to get a lot of credit for that.  I just think if Bill wasn't manning both the sideline and the front office, the Patriots would have a better roster right now and probably would have won even more championships.  Doing either job at the NFL level is incredibly difficult, there just isn't enough time in the day to do both well at the same time.
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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #332 on: September 28, 2022, 05:12:57 PM »

Offline sgrogan

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The Patriots emasculated and embarrassed Jones in the Bils game last year and he hasn't been the same since. When the team has so little faith in you that they refuse to throw the ball, it is devastating for your confidence especially as a rookie.

What a dumb hot take.
Have you looked at the numbers?

In the 12 games before that game Mac's main numbers

70.34%, 16 TD's, 8 INT's, with a 97.1 passer rating and the Patriots were 8-4.

In the 4 regular season games after the Bills game

59.85%, 6 Td's, 5 INT's with a 79.7 passer rating and the Patriots were 1-3 (and the 1 which was a  3 TD/0 INT game was the awful post-Meyer Jaguars when the Pats scored 50).

In the playoff game

63.16%, 2 TD's, 2 INT's with a 75.8 passer rating

Thus far this season

65.98%, 2 TD's, 5 INT's with a 76.2 passer rating and the Patriots are 1-2


The simple reality is, since the Patriots threw the ball 3 times against the Bills, Mac Jones has looked like an entirely different QB and the team went from winning 2 out of 3 games to winning just 1 in 4 games.  Now sure maybe that is just a coincidence and has absolutely no correlation at all, or maybe just maybe embarrassing your QB on national tv might not be the thing to do.

Eh.  He had one terrible game late last year.  The second Buffalo game really skewed things.  14-for-32, 2 INTs, 145 yards.  When talking about a small sample size, that type of terrible performance can change averages quickly.
sure, he also had a great game mixed in there balancing it out.  Patriots were 9-4 after that game and are 2-6 since.  Something changed at that point and that game sure does seem like a good starting point.  Mac was pretty bad in the 2 games right after, had the excellent game against the awful Jags, and hasn't had an even great game since.  This is over 2 seasons and the 5 games last year was the same roster that started 9-4 and yet finished 1-4.

Again Mo, out of your element. You haven’t looked at the defense beginning to suck at that time as well. Judon disappeared. Can this be tied into your crazy theory about Mac?

Did Mac seem to lack confidence yesterday? I didn’t see any evidence of that.

Btw- you’ve dodged the Belichick question… a lot. Name a better GM.
There are several GM's that are better than Bill.  Veach, Beane, DeCosta, Licht, Loomis, Roseman, Snead, Lynch, and a guy like Colbert (who just retired) was as well and there are certainly arguments for a guy like Grier (but he is pretty new).  Bill isn't the worst GM in the league, but he isn't all that close to the top either.  I absolutely think he could be if he wasn't coaching, but doing both jobs is just too hard.

How do you judge success?

I always thought winning was the ultimate metric. Putting together winning seasons and championships. Belichick may be the most detail oriented person in the NFL. He’s a boring old guy that loves the quirky little parts of history and has a particular view of what makes a good player and team. This often conflicts with the Mel Kipers of the world. Everyone hammered the Logan Mankins/Cole Strange picks. Not only does he zig when everyone zags, but he has 6 rings over 20 years. What’s the rebuttal to that Moranis?
There are all sorts of metrics on those things.  The 3 main ones most commonly rated are: How you do with early round draft picks.  How you do with late round draft picks.  How you do with free agent signings.  The next main rating metric, which isn't as common in the NFL, is of course trading. Bill has been a fairly solid late round drafter, he has been about average in trades, but he hasn't been nearly as good early in the draft or in free agency.  The guys I listed all rate higher overall in those main rating categories.  So that is how I would measure how good a GM is i.e. how well do they do in the draft, free agency, and trades and because the early rounds and late rounds are vastly different, most places separate those. 

And obviously gold is correct, I do think Brady is far more important to the Patriots winning championships than Bill is, but Bill did draft and develop Brady so he has to get a lot of credit for that.  I just think if Bill wasn't manning both the sideline and the front office, the Patriots would have a better roster right now and probably would have won even more championships.  Doing either job at the NFL level is incredibly difficult, there just isn't enough time in the day to do both well at the same time.
Bill has been pretty good in the first round. Especially the top 29-30 picks.
He's had 4 in the first half Seymour(6), Mayo(10), Warren(13), Jones(15)

Maybe you can blame Bill the GM for not having 1st round picks but since 2014 we've gone
Easley(29), Brown(32), none, none(nor a 2nd), Wynn(23), Michel(31), Harry(32), none, Jones(15)

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #333 on: September 29, 2022, 10:37:44 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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My guess is, UNLESS we hear something today that he got the surgery recently or is getting it tonight, Mac won't be getting the surgery.

I mean it's already Thursday. I feel if he was going to get the surgery he would have gotten it by now, or maybe he waited for the 2nd opinion and elects for surgery today which we'd hear about.

Hoyer will start this Sunday, but the big question will be if Mac goes on IR or not. If he doesn't, who knows maybe he can return in 2-3 weeks?
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #334 on: September 29, 2022, 12:22:05 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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I think 4-6 weeks, and I don’t think we will see that much of a downgrade to Hoyer. He has a lot more experience in the league and with Belichick.

This is definitely not the year to have high hopes, which is ok. I am gladly forking over hundreds to go to these home games because of the legacy. I think they will be back in the mix in coming years, but I’m not holding my breath. It would be unreasonable to be impatient after everything we’ve seen.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #335 on: September 29, 2022, 12:27:47 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Per sources, Mac Jones is in the facility and participating in game planning. The #Patriots QB has to told multiple teammates to not count him out of this weekend's game at Green Bay, and is still operating as if he has a chance. Practice is scheduled for around 12:35 today.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #336 on: September 29, 2022, 12:47:23 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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@MikeGiardi
Per sources, Mac Jones is in the facility and participating in game planning. The #Patriots QB has to told multiple teammates to not count him out of this weekend's game at Green Bay, and is still operating as if he has a chance. Practice is scheduled for around 12:35 today.


He won't play this week but I do really admire his grit/toughness. People forget, early last season when the O-Line was trash and even earlier this season (Week 1 vs. Miami) he was taking a ton of hits but kept getting up. I don't question Mac's durability/toughness.

I do think this confirms he's not getting the surgery too. I mean why would he be in the facility and game planning if he were to get it. I think it'll be a rest + recover/rehab situation. Timeline TBD but it does seem like it could be less than 4 weeks unless he goes on IR soon
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #337 on: September 29, 2022, 01:31:56 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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@MikeGiardi
Per sources, Mac Jones is in the facility and participating in game planning. The #Patriots QB has to told multiple teammates to not count him out of this weekend's game at Green Bay, and is still operating as if he has a chance. Practice is scheduled for around 12:35 today.


He won't play this week but I do really admire his grit/toughness. People forget, early last season when the O-Line was trash and even earlier this season (Week 1 vs. Miami) he was taking a ton of hits but kept getting up. I don't question Mac's durability/toughness.

I do think this confirms he's not getting the surgery too. I mean why would he be in the facility and game planning if he were to get it. I think it'll be a rest + recover/rehab situation. Timeline TBD but it does seem like it could be less than 4 weeks unless he goes on IR soon

Doesn't quite sound like someone who is a softie or has been embarrassed & emasculated by the organization and lacks mental toughness.


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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #338 on: October 02, 2022, 10:21:28 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Can't wait for Hoyer the Destroyer to lead us to victory at Lambeau!

(lol please don't lose by 20+)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #339 on: October 02, 2022, 01:27:26 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Can't wait for Hoyer the Destroyer to lead us to victory at Lambeau!

(lol please don't lose by 20+)

I’d rather see Zappe, TBH. No Myers again, ugh.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #340 on: October 02, 2022, 01:40:49 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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KB early on. Let’s go!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 04:30:11 PM by Goldstar88 »
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #341 on: October 02, 2022, 04:17:14 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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The Patriots are sole possession of last place after the Jets rallied to beat the Steelers  :-X


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Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #342 on: October 02, 2022, 04:49:13 PM »

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Pats fail to capitalize on the midfield takeaway. Not a good sign for today.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #343 on: October 02, 2022, 04:54:16 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Brian Hoyer couldn't last 1 quarter.

Re: Patriots 2022 Season
« Reply #344 on: October 02, 2022, 04:56:08 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Brian Hoyer couldn't last 1 quarter.

Pats Offensive line is trash. They are letting the QB’s get killed out there.
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.