Author Topic: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17  (Read 43104 times)

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Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #525 on: November 07, 2017, 12:26:24 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.
The Golden State Warriors... 2 years ago.

lol
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #526 on: November 07, 2017, 12:28:26 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #527 on: November 07, 2017, 12:29:02 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.
The Golden State Warriors... 2 years ago.

lol

Glad I wasn't the only one to notice lol.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #528 on: November 07, 2017, 12:30:54 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning. 
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Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #529 on: November 07, 2017, 12:33:57 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Quote
Any empirical stats to back up your assists claims, or is that just pure conjecture based on the eye test?

Lol. When have I ever gone by “pure conjecture”?

The stats are on NBA.com. Unlike some, I tend not to make claims based upon the “eye test”. It’s not reliable, as your above conjecture about Kyrie’s hockey assists and potential assists shows.
the 11 game sample size is way too Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing small. Stats dont matter yet.

Thats more directed at the pro-Kyrie crew. Wont know who won this trade for a long while.

Early returns on Irving have been terrific. His defensive effort has been contagious, teammates seem to love him and hes been as advertised as a closer dominating the closing stages of this game, the Bucks game and the OKC game.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #530 on: November 07, 2017, 12:34:22 AM »

Offline incoherent

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You guys keep going over the advanced stats and arguing about IT and I'll just keep enjoying our team clicking on a level I haven't seen since Decemeber 2009.

Let's just keep in mind that 99.9% of all NBA players and point guards will never accomplish a season like IT had last year.

But that doesn't change the fact that Kyrie is a better playoff performer, and is more likely to get us to banner 18 which is our ultimate goal.






Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #531 on: November 07, 2017, 12:34:44 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.

Lol I am out, but you sure have a bone to pick.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Kyrie is transcendent, and this will be proven.

You thought IT was nice under Brad? Well, wait until you see how he cooks with Kyrie.

Lol like dealing with the "IT is a 6th man" crowd all over again.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #532 on: November 07, 2017, 12:35:14 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.
Im curious as to what point you are trying to make.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #533 on: November 07, 2017, 12:40:37 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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You guys keep going over the advanced stats and arguing about IT and I'll just keep enjoying our team clicking on a level I haven't seen since Decemeber 2009.

Let's just keep in mind that 99.9% of all NBA players and point guards will never accomplish a season like IT had last year.

But that doesn't change the fact that Kyrie is a better playoff performer, and is more likely to get us to banner 18 which is our ultimate goal.
eh. A lot of that is  a product of the schedule.

They beat Milwaukee which is a solid win and they beat OKC which is an awesome win, but other than that they beat New York, Philly, Atlanta, Miami(sans Whiteside), San Antonio(san Kawhi, Parker, and Manu), Orlando(with no point gaurd), and the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Kings.

They are really gelling and playing great, but the idea that this is the best theyve played or gelled since 09 seems like a huge stretch.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #534 on: November 07, 2017, 12:45:13 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.

Lol I am out, but you sure have a bone to pick.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Kyrie is transcendent, and this will be proven.

You thought IT was nice under Brad? Well, wait until you see how he cooks with Kyrie.

Lol like dealing with the "IT is a 6th man" crowd all over again.

By my definition of the word, "transcendent" means we will make the Finals and come close to winning a championship this year.  That's what a transcendent player does, but you must believe otherwise.  So, unless that happens... you're up craps creek with that stance, imo.

No idea why you keep bringing up the IT + 6th man thing.  Completely irrelevant.  I was probably more pro-IT than you were at the time.   
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #535 on: November 07, 2017, 12:46:24 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

A long way?

He has made it to the finals 3 times and has won a ring

A long way.  A heck of a lot of other players would have, too.  And IT carried us farther than the vast majority ever imagined.


A heck of a lot of other players would have hit game winning 3 in Curry’s face in game 7 of the finals . Ok gotcha sir. And IT won 2 playoff series, that’s it , not like he was a 10 time all star or even a 4 time all star.

Clearly, it should take a long time and a lot of proven success for a 25 year old 4 time allstar, allstar game MVP, FIBA MVP, Olympic gold medal winner, #1 overall NBA draft pick, 3 time NBA finalist, and one time NBA champion who made the game 7 winning shot to prove himself over the 28 year old 1 time all star, 2nd round draft pick who was coming off the bench for a crappy team just a few years ago.  He has everything to prove as opposed to the latter player.  This is rational.

LeBron James.
And what is the win loss record for Lebron this year?  ;D

Lebron needs a team of good players to win championships. But this is obvious. You did nothing to refute the post above yours.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #536 on: November 07, 2017, 12:47:59 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

  • NCE
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Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.

Lol I am out, but you sure have a bone to pick.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Kyrie is transcendent, and this will be proven.

You thought IT was nice under Brad? Well, wait until you see how he cooks with Kyrie.

Lol like dealing with the "IT is a 6th man" crowd all over again.

By my definition of the word, "transcendent" means we will make the Finals and come close to winning a championship this year.  That's what a transcendent player does, but you must believe otherwise.  So, unless that happens... you're up craps creek with that stance, imo.

No idea why you keep bringing up the IT + 6th man thing.  Completely irrelevant.  I was probably more pro-IT than you were at the time.   

K. Leonard hasn't made the finals in the last three years.

He must not be transcendent then, either.

You logic just isn't tracking.

Not to mention, the point I am making about IT, is that I see you, as you saw those who constantly said IT was nothing but a 6th man, or high scorer on a bad team.

Trying to give you some perspective.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #537 on: November 07, 2017, 12:52:07 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
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  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.

Lol I am out, but you sure have a bone to pick.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Kyrie is transcendent, and this will be proven.

You thought IT was nice under Brad? Well, wait until you see how he cooks with Kyrie.

Lol like dealing with the "IT is a 6th man" crowd all over again.

By my definition of the word, "transcendent" means we will make the Finals and come close to winning a championship this year.  That's what a transcendent player does, but you must believe otherwise.  So, unless that happens... you're up craps creek with that stance, imo.

No idea why you keep bringing up the IT + 6th man thing.  Completely irrelevant.  I was probably more pro-IT than you were at the time.   
So by your definition Kevin Durant isnt transcendent?

Lebron James wasnt until 2011 at age 26?

Michael Jordan didnt even hit that status till 27.

Shaq didnt get there till he was 27 either!
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #538 on: November 07, 2017, 01:04:20 AM »

Offline jakeopp

  • Joe Mazzulla
  • Posts: 138
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You guys keep going over the advanced stats and arguing about IT and I'll just keep enjoying our team clicking on a level I haven't seen since Decemeber 2009.

Let's just keep in mind that 99.9% of all NBA players and point guards will never accomplish a season like IT had last year.

But that doesn't change the fact that Kyrie is a better playoff performer, and is more likely to get us to banner 18 which is our ultimate goal.
eh. A lot of that is  a product of the schedule.

They beat Milwaukee which is a solid win and they beat OKC which is an awesome win, but other than that they beat New York, Philly, Atlanta, Miami(sans Whiteside), San Antonio(san Kawhi, Parker, and Manu), Orlando(with no point gaurd), and the ****ing Kings.

They are really gelling and playing great, but the idea that this is the best theyve played or gelled since 09 seems like a huge stretch.
Basically my thoughts right now. Our best wins were against the Bucks (4-5 record) who we lost against earlier in the year, and the Thunder (4-5 as well) a team with major firepower but still has a lot of gelling to do. Beyond that we've beaten lottery teams, the 76ers,  and the Spurs/Heat minus their best players.

I'm interested in how we play against the Warriors and Raptors coming up soon on our schedule. Raptors always killed us in the past, and we've always played GS tough in recent years.

Re: Celtics (8-2) at Hawks (2-8) Game #11 11/6/17
« Reply #539 on: November 07, 2017, 01:06:22 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Don Nelson
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  • Posts: 8593
  • Tommy Points: 1389
Roy and every one else that had questions about the trade, appreciated the heck out of IT, and are going to wait for Kyrie to prove himself in the same manner as he did, don't deserve to be attacked.  His points have always been valid, and despite some solid quarters (and tonight), Kyrie does still have a long way to go to warrant that trade.  So let's play nice.  It's a big sandbox.

Where you saying the same thing after IT's first season here, when people said it was only one season, he is just a sixth Man?

I was. I doubted him all the way, until the first quarter of last year. I was wrong. I am not going to spend this season waiting to believe my eyes with Kyrie.

Not at all.  Loved IT from the jump and wanted to see him start ASAP.  I can't remember exact comments, but I'm sure my posts will definitely reflect that. 

Ogaju: I love me some Tatum.

So you loved IT from the jump, yet Kyrie is playing much better ball than IT did (even to start his first full season), yet you doubt Kyrie?

I get the whole "well we lost the trade angle" (even if I think getting the best player is winning the trade in the NBA, and disagree), but I seriously don't get people arguing IT is a better player.

He isn't.

Not one GM in this league would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.

Yet some here seem to think that is in question.

It isn't.

Kyrie is simply a better player than IT, without question.

I agree that there isn't a single GM that would trade Kyrie for IT straight up.  As I GM, I wouldn't fathom it, either.  But Kyrie's not the unanimously better player yet.  Can he be? Sure.  Is he already? It's possible, but he hasn't proven it yet imo.

I respect your right to your opinion, but lol.

That opinion goin' to look really silly real quick.

It is clear Kyrie is just a step above.

Well, "just a step" and being made to "look silly" don't really add up, brohammer.

But I legitimately just gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt in every way.  They were in two completely different circumstances -- IT carried a team, Kyrie took control in spots + LeBron + Cavs.  In reverse roles, I think they would've probably been similarly successfully. 

I don't think either side can end up losing this "Who is better?" debate, honestly.  Kyrie has way more firepower than IT ever did -- with (begrudging) credit to Ainge, Brown and Tatum have been ridiculously good.  But, it was an overpay; BKN could be just as good; their prior roles can't be reversed at this stage.

I don't agree. Much like with Davis, when a transcendent talent becomes available you get it done.

I think he's great, but not transcendent (same with IT).  Big Mo broke this down in another thread recently.  The last 6'2" transcendent talent, best player on a championship team, was...?

You can disagree all you want.  I'm still going to give you a TP.

Lol this is a joke, right?

Steph is 6' 3", same height as Irving.

I really, really hope you are just playing something.

That was just two years ago, lol...come on bruh.

Nailed it, TP.  Steph Curry - literally the greatest shooter of all time.  On the greatest team of all-time (until last year); without Draymond, an injured Curry, and a league that benefited a LOT from the Cavs winning.

Lol I am out, but you sure have a bone to pick.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. Kyrie is transcendent, and this will be proven.

You thought IT was nice under Brad? Well, wait until you see how he cooks with Kyrie.

Lol like dealing with the "IT is a 6th man" crowd all over again.

By my definition of the word, "transcendent" means we will make the Finals and come close to winning a championship this year.  That's what a transcendent player does, but you must believe otherwise.  So, unless that happens... you're up craps creek with that stance, imo.

No idea why you keep bringing up the IT + 6th man thing.  Completely irrelevant.  I was probably more pro-IT than you were at the time.   

K. Leonard hasn't made the finals in the last three years.

He must not be transcendent then, either.

You logic just isn't tracking.

Not to mention, the point I am making about IT, is that I see you, as you saw those who constantly said IT was nothing but a 6th man, or high scorer on a bad team.

Trying to give you some perspective.

You pretty much explained my logic.  Subjectively, I wouldn't label Kawhi clearly transcendent -- I think both he and Davis are right on the cusp.  Both supremely talented, decade of star status for both.  Again, I consider a guy transcendent when he has a clear path to the Finals, and is capable of willing his team to a win when needed.  Jordan, Bird, Kareem, James, Kobe, etc. 
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