Author Topic: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!  (Read 15152 times)

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Re: Jabari?
« Reply #240 on: April 21, 2021, 09:56:49 PM »

Offline colincb

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A coach needs a bench to be like a toolbox. A whole bunch of different tools, some being in that box to do only specific jobs. So I donít have an issue with all offense/no defense guys similar to not having issues with all defense/no offense guys. Itís up to the coach to use those tools properly.

My question before yesterday was whether Parker could still be that all offense/no defense guy. We knew he had no defense, last night showed that, but since leaving Atlanta, he had barely played and when he did he appeared to be overweight, not moving around well and his offense looked as it had taken a major step backwards.

If used right, like last night, and put into player groupings that hide his defensive deficiencies, he could be a nice addition. Now letís see if Stevens continues to use him right and if Parker can consistently do what he did against the Warriors.

Completely agree. People who are trashing my ďatrocious defenseĒ posts arenít also seeing that I have the same sentiment as this.

Jabariís offense is much-needed and Iím willing to live with some bad defense to get this offensive punch in the right situations.

As a micro-example, look at the Golden State game. His defense was terrible. But without his offense, Boston loses that game.

And he was +6 in 16 minutes.  One game, small sample but all this clamoring about how bad his defense was, we came out ahead when he was on the court.  Semi is a really good defender but offers no offensive threat.  You live with that when you need to.  Parker is a offensive threat with limited defense.  Teams will exploit that but letís see how much.  We are talking about the third or fourth off the bench role (Fournier, then RWilliams, then Pritchard?).  Looking for an upgrade over what we have gotten from Grant and Semi.

I am really happy with what I saw from Parker after 1 game with respect to that role.  I think his defense will improve some as he gets used to playing within our team defense schemes.  If we get something close to game 1 plus even a little bit better defense, he is going to be a big help.  If he goes 1-8 and plays bad defense, not so much.  He has not even practiced with the team and pretty much walked off the plane on to the court.  There were ďmomentsĒ on rotations and close outs that werenít great but as I said, I thought he looked great overall in game 1.  I will reassess as needed in a couple of weeks but for now, I am thrilled with the addition.
As you sort of intimate, the problem with Parker isnít that he is bad defensively (he is), it is that he isnít super efficient offensively.  So he doesnít usually make up for his poor defense with great offense (like say IT4 or Kyrie did).  He was super efficient against the Warriors so his defense was made up for, but when he has a more typical Smart like offensive game, he probably wonít make up for his poor defense.

Parkerís quite efficient within his shot profile. Heís predominantly a 2 point shooting power forward. Over the last two seasons (2019 and 2020), he shot 57.3% on 2 point attempts. That would tie him with Kyrie for 35th out of 126 qualifiers this season. If he qualified by his number of attempts, he would be 9th out of 22 PFs below Durant and above Barnes. He hasnít been a passable 3 point shooter since he left MIL for whatever reason (I suspect itís related to his injuries, but who knows). I donít know that CBS can improve his shot profile like other players heís coached.

Smartís very inefficient within the arc (45.7% over the same period, which is awful), but passable as a 3 point shooter. But if you look at their respective FG%, which includes both shots, Parker shot 49.9% the last two years vs. Smartís 37.5% (both are consistent with their career averages).

It doesnít take away from your point about their respective defense, but Parkerís less likely to have the droughts that Smart regularly suffers and if Parkerís inside the arc, itís a good shot. You want him to shoot, and heís always been a volume shooter. Smart, not so much, and less is more.

One caveat, itís tough to compare Parker to other players because of his injury/recovery history, so inevitably you have to cherry-pick his stats to separate his MIL numbers vs. his post-MIL numbers.
All good stuff colin but my concern is in Brad's offensive scheme Parker will be set into a corner, slot, be be expected to shoot that three pointer if it's kicked out to him. And he is a terrible three point shooter.

I am not sure if Stevens will utilize him as a top of the key screener on a pick and roll/pop or to use him as a post up mismatch, which is where his strengths on scoring will be.

Brad set up one called post play for him after a timeout, which was exactly how he needs to be used. Everything else he got were garbage man points on offensive rebounds that I feel any of our bigs would have gotten if they were in the same position.

I hope his offense is used more like that post up play and not relegated to corner threes or crashing the offensive glass
You would think the Cs would know his strengths, but it's a valid concern. I saw Parker outside the arc several times against CHI and I'm thinking this is not what we want to be doing with him. OTOH, the whole game was a fiasco because of the absences of 4 of our top 7 players that it's tough to put too much stock into anything that happened.

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #241 on: April 21, 2021, 11:12:41 PM »

Online gouki88

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So he doesnít usually make up for his poor defense with great offense (like say IT4 or Kyrie did).

While this is true, he doesnít have to.  Those guys were MVP candidates.  Parker will be useful if he simply contributes good offense.  He doesnít need to be great or elite.
I think it is far more important for a role player to not cost you a game because of atrocious defense.  The problem with Parker is that he doesn't have any really elite skills.  He is a terrible 3 point shooter.  He can't handle the ball well.  He can't initiate an offense. He can score pretty well from 3' to the basket, but that is about it.  When you are a role player, if you are bad at something, then you better darn well make up for it with an elite skill.  Like you could live with Korver or Redick's terrible defense, because they were elite shooters.  Parker is an improvement on Wagner, but I'm not sure that says much.

Over the prior two seasons, Parker shot a higher 2 point field goal percentage than Brown or Tatum. Within 0-3 feet and 3-10 feet Parker shot better than both Brown and Tatum. Brown shot better than Parker from 10-16 feet, while Parker was effectively tied with Tatum. From 16 feet to the arc they were all effectively tied. As I said before, if Parker qualified, he would be a better than average 2 point field goal shooter among power forwards, and a much better than average 2 point field goal shooter among all players.
Yeah, Parker is pretty darn efficient inside the arc. His assist:turnover numbers aren't very pretty though...
Fire Brad & Trade Smart

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #242 on: April 22, 2021, 02:40:18 AM »

Offline colincb

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So he doesnít usually make up for his poor defense with great offense (like say IT4 or Kyrie did).

While this is true, he doesnít have to.  Those guys were MVP candidates.  Parker will be useful if he simply contributes good offense.  He doesnít need to be great or elite.
I think it is far more important for a role player to not cost you a game because of atrocious defense.  The problem with Parker is that he doesn't have any really elite skills.  He is a terrible 3 point shooter.  He can't handle the ball well.  He can't initiate an offense. He can score pretty well from 3' to the basket, but that is about it.  When you are a role player, if you are bad at something, then you better darn well make up for it with an elite skill.  Like you could live with Korver or Redick's terrible defense, because they were elite shooters.  Parker is an improvement on Wagner, but I'm not sure that says much.

Over the prior two seasons, Parker shot a higher 2 point field goal percentage than Brown or Tatum. Within 0-3 feet and 3-10 feet Parker shot better than both Brown and Tatum. Brown shot better than Parker from 10-16 feet, while Parker was effectively tied with Tatum. From 16 feet to the arc they were all effectively tied. As I said before, if Parker qualified, he would be a better than average 2 point field goal shooter among power forwards, and a much better than average 2 point field goal shooter among all players.
Yeah, Parker is pretty darn efficient inside the arc. His assist:turnover numbers aren't very pretty though...

He's a superior player for an 8th or 9th man isn't he if he can score relatively efficiently and consistently off the bench?

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #243 on: April 22, 2021, 02:44:39 AM »

Online gouki88

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So he doesnít usually make up for his poor defense with great offense (like say IT4 or Kyrie did).

While this is true, he doesnít have to.  Those guys were MVP candidates.  Parker will be useful if he simply contributes good offense.  He doesnít need to be great or elite.
I think it is far more important for a role player to not cost you a game because of atrocious defense.  The problem with Parker is that he doesn't have any really elite skills.  He is a terrible 3 point shooter.  He can't handle the ball well.  He can't initiate an offense. He can score pretty well from 3' to the basket, but that is about it.  When you are a role player, if you are bad at something, then you better darn well make up for it with an elite skill.  Like you could live with Korver or Redick's terrible defense, because they were elite shooters.  Parker is an improvement on Wagner, but I'm not sure that says much.

Over the prior two seasons, Parker shot a higher 2 point field goal percentage than Brown or Tatum. Within 0-3 feet and 3-10 feet Parker shot better than both Brown and Tatum. Brown shot better than Parker from 10-16 feet, while Parker was effectively tied with Tatum. From 16 feet to the arc they were all effectively tied. As I said before, if Parker qualified, he would be a better than average 2 point field goal shooter among power forwards, and a much better than average 2 point field goal shooter among all players.
Yeah, Parker is pretty darn efficient inside the arc. His assist:turnover numbers aren't very pretty though...

He's a superior player for an 8th or 9th man isn't he if he can score relatively efficiently and consistently off the bench?
100%! He's a career 15/6 guy who averaged 20PPG as a 21 year-old. He's a good bench player
Fire Brad & Trade Smart

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #244 on: April 22, 2021, 07:23:57 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Question about his contract and the Early Bird Rights. (I may be way off, this is based on something I saw on Reddit)

I've heard that at the end of next season Parker will qualify for an extension under Early Bird Rights. This will allow the Celtics to offer him about $8-10 Million maximum per year and that other teams would not be working under this restriction and could pay him more.

Is this true?

Lets say Jabari Parker is actually a starter level player by the end of next year and is due for a $15-20 Million contract. Are we restricted from giving him a contract like that and are other teams free to offer him more?

That's largely true.  It's more likely that for his first year, the Celtics could offer at most in the 10.5-11 Million range, which works out to $45-48 million over four years with raises.  If Parker plays so well next year that he earns more than that contract, then the C's will have had a huge bargain.

Yes, kind of a good news, bad news thing.  We have him next season at $2.6M I think.  So if for the rest of this season and all of next, he plays so well that we can't afford him in 2022-23, well, so be it.

I seem to be more optimistic about him than many here and even I don't see him playing that well.  I am hoping for pretty much what he was in ATL last season for 32 games, a fringe starter (he started 23 games on a team with injuries) putting up 15 pts/ 6 Rebs in about 25 min.  If we can get that out of him over the next 1.3 seasons off our bench with minutes managed to preserve him, great.  And if based on that, someone wants to overpay him in 2022-23, have at it.

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #245 on: April 22, 2021, 09:17:33 AM »

Online Celtics2021

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Question about his contract and the Early Bird Rights. (I may be way off, this is based on something I saw on Reddit)

I've heard that at the end of next season Parker will qualify for an extension under Early Bird Rights. This will allow the Celtics to offer him about $8-10 Million maximum per year and that other teams would not be working under this restriction and could pay him more.

Is this true?

Lets say Jabari Parker is actually a starter level player by the end of next year and is due for a $15-20 Million contract. Are we restricted from giving him a contract like that and are other teams free to offer him more?

That's largely true.  It's more likely that for his first year, the Celtics could offer at most in the 10.5-11 Million range, which works out to $45-48 million over four years with raises.  If Parker plays so well next year that he earns more than that contract, then the C's will have had a huge bargain.

Yes, kind of a good news, bad news thing.  We have him next season at $2.6M I think.  So if for the rest of this season and all of next, he plays so well that we can't afford him in 2022-23, well, so be it.

I seem to be more optimistic about him than many here and even I don't see him playing that well.  I am hoping for pretty much what he was in ATL last season for 32 games, a fringe starter (he started 23 games on a team with injuries) putting up 15 pts/ 6 Rebs in about 25 min.  If we can get that out of him over the next 1.3 seasons off our bench with minutes managed to preserve him, great.  And if based on that, someone wants to overpay him in 2022-23, have at it.

Yep.  Next year is actually only ~$2.2 million -- combined with this year's $400k for the rest of the season, it's $2.6 million total.  I'm not sure it will be a bargain, because I'm not terribly high on him, but it's not going to be a contract we regret (until Mo Wagner signs a cheap 2-year deal with somewhere like Miami in the offseason and blows up.  I'm calling that now.)

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #246 on: April 22, 2021, 10:58:17 AM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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I hope Fournier gets back on the court soon. I really want to see how he pairs up with Jabari. I think the could be an old school Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside on the 2nd shift.

Pritchard will finally have options to pass to. I am sure heíll appreciate getting his assist numbers up a little.

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #247 on: April 22, 2021, 11:15:08 AM »

Online jambr380

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Question about his contract and the Early Bird Rights. (I may be way off, this is based on something I saw on Reddit)

I've heard that at the end of next season Parker will qualify for an extension under Early Bird Rights. This will allow the Celtics to offer him about $8-10 Million maximum per year and that other teams would not be working under this restriction and could pay him more.

Is this true?

Lets say Jabari Parker is actually a starter level player by the end of next year and is due for a $15-20 Million contract. Are we restricted from giving him a contract like that and are other teams free to offer him more?

That's largely true.  It's more likely that for his first year, the Celtics could offer at most in the 10.5-11 Million range, which works out to $45-48 million over four years with raises.  If Parker plays so well next year that he earns more than that contract, then the C's will have had a huge bargain.

Yes, kind of a good news, bad news thing.  We have him next season at $2.6M I think.  So if for the rest of this season and all of next, he plays so well that we can't afford him in 2022-23, well, so be it.

I seem to be more optimistic about him than many here and even I don't see him playing that well.  I am hoping for pretty much what he was in ATL last season for 32 games, a fringe starter (he started 23 games on a team with injuries) putting up 15 pts/ 6 Rebs in about 25 min.  If we can get that out of him over the next 1.3 seasons off our bench with minutes managed to preserve him, great.  And if based on that, someone wants to overpay him in 2022-23, have at it.

Don't forget that with Early Bird Rights (2 yrs), it is the greater of 175% of the player's previous contract or 105% of the league average salary. I believe the average salary this season is about $10M. Parker may prove to be awesome, but I doubt he plays himself beyond that amount. Danny getting him locked into a 2 year contract was great foresight. Hopefully it really works out!

Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #248 on: April 22, 2021, 12:32:23 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Question about his contract and the Early Bird Rights. (I may be way off, this is based on something I saw on Reddit)

I've heard that at the end of next season Parker will qualify for an extension under Early Bird Rights. This will allow the Celtics to offer him about $8-10 Million maximum per year and that other teams would not be working under this restriction and could pay him more.

Is this true?

Lets say Jabari Parker is actually a starter level player by the end of next year and is due for a $15-20 Million contract. Are we restricted from giving him a contract like that and are other teams free to offer him more?

That's largely true.  It's more likely that for his first year, the Celtics could offer at most in the 10.5-11 Million range, which works out to $45-48 million over four years with raises.  If Parker plays so well next year that he earns more than that contract, then the C's will have had a huge bargain.

Yes, kind of a good news, bad news thing.  We have him next season at $2.6M I think.  So if for the rest of this season and all of next, he plays so well that we can't afford him in 2022-23, well, so be it.

I seem to be more optimistic about him than many here and even I don't see him playing that well.  I am hoping for pretty much what he was in ATL last season for 32 games, a fringe starter (he started 23 games on a team with injuries) putting up 15 pts/ 6 Rebs in about 25 min.  If we can get that out of him over the next 1.3 seasons off our bench with minutes managed to preserve him, great.  And if based on that, someone wants to overpay him in 2022-23, have at it.

Don't forget that with Early Bird Rights (2 yrs), it is the greater of 175% of the player's previous contract or 105% of the league average salary. I believe the average salary this season is about $10M. Parker may prove to be awesome, but I doubt he plays himself beyond that amount. Danny getting him locked into a 2 year contract was great foresight. Hopefully it really works out!
it's almost as if he has done this before.  ;D
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Re: Jabari? UPDATE: Jabari!
« Reply #249 on: April 22, 2021, 12:59:42 PM »

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With Jaylen out, I would not be surprised to see Jabari start tonight at the 4, and move Tatum to the 3.  Brad seems eager to get him integrated into the team as quickly as possible.