Rumor: Celtics offer for Grant

[NKY fan]

Based on relatively limited opportunity to see Grant play, I think he would be a good fit and a good add to the team.  Better than what I saw of Collins.  From the Celtics perspective, I think 2 firsts and say Nesmith and Grant is reasonable.

Grant would likely be our starting PF and from what I saw, would be great in that role.  A real improvement for the team.  Not sure about this from Detroit's perspective though.  Not sure our picks are quite good enough or that Nesmith is quite good enough of a young player to make this worth their while.

If true, I am glad that Danny is trying to make something work for Grant.

2 late FRPs and Nesmith is a laughable package for Grant. Danny should have rolled forward at least 3 of the 6 FRPs he had in the last   2 drafts for future FRPs . Would have been much easier to trade for Grant if he had those extra picks.

Those picks in the last two drafts ended up being Langford, Nesmith, Pritchard, Grant Williams, so a trade of two future firsts and Nesmith + Grant is really 4 firsts.  So is it better if we offer Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith, and Grant?  Trading forward picks does not make them better.

I don't disagree that it will likely take more than this to get Jerami Grant but I don't follow your logic on how this is some fault of Danny that he didn't trade picks for other picks and that this would have somehow resulted in us having something better to trade.

Celtics fans like all nba fans assign a much higher value on their drafted players than other teams do. You will be very hard pressed to find a team that values any of the above players at a first round pick currently. It’s just the way it is.

With the exception of maybe G Williams, I would say all of those above players would bring back at least a 1st round pick. Not necessarily lottery level (not at all actually), but they are all cost-controlled assets that have either proven themselves (Pritchard) or have enough potential to be enticing to some team. Langford probably won't be 'worth' anything for another month, though.

I do agree with your assessment that picks are generally worth more before a player is selected with that pick (unless a player really surprises early on), but I don't think the above players should be lumped in with guys like Edwards, Green, and Ojeleye. I believe they do have some value as more than just filler.

How would they bring a FRP? you need a trading partner for that. Since the above players need to be developed veteran teams aren't going to offer their late first rounders. There is just so much more to choose from if you have a FRP to bolster your team for the playoffs.
Teams that have minutes for young players to develop will not trade their picks because those are worth a lot to them and can go high in the lottery. Unless a youngish team that is wrapping up their developing stage has an extra pick that belongs to the top teams originally (lakers/sixers/nets etc) and are willing to give it up for the certainty of Pritchard's skills ...
Account for the general view of Ainge by other GMs and it will be almost impossible to get a FRP.

If you want to gauge the value of our young players check what Hamidou Dialo brought back to OKC in a trade yesterday. Given his stats and play this year he would be one of the "untouchables" if he was drafted by the celtics lol.

Yeah I don't think any team would give up a 1st round pick for them.  Now I could see teams preferring Nesmith instead of a 2021 1st, as an example.  So in that some may have 1st round pick type value, but I don't think any team would give up a 1st round pick for Nesmith at this point.

I think ORL can use rookie contract players and rebuild on the fly. So if the value of Fournier is established to be a very late FRP maybe Nesmith would suffice... but Dany came out and said he avoids trading for players on expiring contracts because he is not sure they will resign the following season. So that eliminates a lot of trade targets whose price is "high"

[jambr380]

Based on relatively limited opportunity to see Grant play, I think he would be a good fit and a good add to the team.  Better than what I saw of Collins.  From the Celtics perspective, I think 2 firsts and say Nesmith and Grant is reasonable.

Grant would likely be our starting PF and from what I saw, would be great in that role.  A real improvement for the team.  Not sure about this from Detroit's perspective though.  Not sure our picks are quite good enough or that Nesmith is quite good enough of a young player to make this worth their while.

If true, I am glad that Danny is trying to make something work for Grant.

2 late FRPs and Nesmith is a laughable package for Grant. Danny should have rolled forward at least 3 of the 6 FRPs he had in the last   2 drafts for future FRPs . Would have been much easier to trade for Grant if he had those extra picks.

Those picks in the last two drafts ended up being Langford, Nesmith, Pritchard, Grant Williams, so a trade of two future firsts and Nesmith + Grant is really 4 firsts.  So is it better if we offer Langford, Pritchard, Nesmith, and Grant?  Trading forward picks does not make them better.

I don't disagree that it will likely take more than this to get Jerami Grant but I don't follow your logic on how this is some fault of Danny that he didn't trade picks for other picks and that this would have somehow resulted in us having something better to trade.

Celtics fans like all nba fans assign a much higher value on their drafted players than other teams do. You will be very hard pressed to find a team that values any of the above players at a first round pick currently. It’s just the way it is.

With the exception of maybe G Williams, I would say all of those above players would bring back at least a 1st round pick. Not necessarily lottery level (not at all actually), but they are all cost-controlled assets that have either proven themselves (Pritchard) or have enough potential to be enticing to some team. Langford probably won't be 'worth' anything for another month, though.

I do agree with your assessment that picks are generally worth more before a player is selected with that pick (unless a player really surprises early on), but I don't think the above players should be lumped in with guys like Edwards, Green, and Ojeleye. I believe they do have some value as more than just filler.

How would they bring a FRP? you need a trading partner for that. Since the above players need to be developed veteran teams aren't going to offer their late first rounders. There is just so much more to choose from if you have a FRP to bolster your team for the playoffs.
Teams that have minutes for young players to develop will not trade their picks because those are worth a lot to them and can go high in the lottery. Unless a youngish team that is wrapping up their developing stage has an extra pick that belongs to the top teams originally (lakers/sixers/nets etc) and are willing to give it up for the certainty of Pritchard's skills ...
Account for the general view of Ainge by other GMs and it will be almost impossible to get a FRP.

If you want to gauge the value of our young players check what Hamidou Dialo brought back to OKC in a trade yesterday. Given his stats and play this year he would be one of the "untouchables" if he was drafted by the celtics lol.

Eh, I think it really depends. You have teams like the Thunder, Rockets, Pelicans, Knicks, etc who own multiple future picks from very good teams. I acknowledged that you wouldn't get an equal return (#14 pick), but it's not crazy to think that one of those teams would trade one of their picks in the 25+ range for Nesmith.

Besides, Moranis more or less clarified my point. If we are sending out Nesmith in a deal, that should be one less 1st we should have to send. And if Romeo doesn't have that type of value, then we should absolutely keep him. Other than maybe TL, he represents our best chance at a future starting level player...maybe even more.

[Vermont Green]

Eh, I think it really depends. You have teams like the Thunder, Rockets, Pelicans, Knicks, etc who own multiple future picks from very good teams. I acknowledged that you wouldn't get an equal return (#14 pick), but it's not crazy to think that one of those teams would trade one of their picks in the 25+ range for Nesmith.

Besides, Moranis more or less clarified my point. If we are sending out Nesmith in a deal, that should be one less 1st we should have to send. And if Romeo doesn't have that type of value, then we should absolutely keep him. Other than maybe TL, he represents our best chance at a future starting level player...maybe even more.

The embedded quotes got mixed up a little but my point is exactly this.  Whether we offer 3 firsts or 2 firsts plus Nesmith, it ends up being about the same.  In my mind, trading our young players is actually better outgoing value as Nesmith and Langford were both #14s and we don't have any picks that would project to be that high.  Our future firsts are expected to be more like Pritchard and Grant range.

I was not trying to rebut that this is probably not enough to get Jerami Grant but my exception was to the point that this was somehow the result of Danny's mismanagement of our previous surplus of picks.  There will always be plenty to second guess regarding drafting as it is essentially dice rolling at best.

If I was Detroit, I would not trade J-Grant for what we can offer.  They will have plenty of opportunity to trade if and whenever they decide they want to.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Huge mistake. Will be the end of Ainge if he does this.

[Ed Monix]

The Athletic's James Edwards III reported that the Celtics have offered "multiple firsts" for his services in a recent appearance on The A-List Podcast with A. Sherrod Blakely and Kwani Lunis.

“I believe that Boston has offered multiple firsts for him. I don’t know what multiple means, it could be two, it could be three.
James Edwards III on The A-List Podcast

That said, Edwards did indicate that while Pistons GM Troy Weaver had implied nobody is untouchable, Detroit isn't likely to move Grant, though the Celtics seem to want him badly.

"I don't think Jerami Grant is on another team starting in April. Boston seems like a team that is very, very, very desperate to get him," Edwards said. "Like Troy said, never say never, but I don't think a team is willing to go where it takes to get Jerami away from Detroit."

[Celtics4ever]

Huge mistake. Will be the end of Ainge if he does this.

Losing Grant Williams and Nesmith, and a few firsts would cripple us in your opinion?  Because, I doubt this would be end of Ainge.   Nesmith has shown some athletic ability, but lacks consistent shooting and looks lost.   The young man gives great effort.  Losing Grant Williams would not be a loss at all.   He is horrible.   Losing the late firsts would not hurt much either.

I think Jerimi Grant would move the dial for us and he may increase in value making him a better asset than any of the above peeps.  In short, we got in this mediocre season by Ainge holding on to late picked players and dubious free agent signing and losing Hayward.   This would fix several of those mistakes.

[Birdman]

Grant Williams is awful..Nesmith is a project..1st picks Bevin mid 20’s so yes, I trade for Jerami Grant

[jambr380]

I think Grant is a great addition to The Celtics but if he didn't want to be a 3rd or 4th option in Denver what would he want to be that on the Celtics?

Because he wanted the $60 million for three years that Detroit was giving him, rather than the far less amount Denver would offer?  He’s making almost as much this season as he’s made in his first six years combined ($19 million vs. $22 million).

I’m not a huge fan of Grant — he’s virtually the same player he’s always been.  His scoring just looks a lot better when his usage doubles and his minutes increase by almost 50%.  He’s a talented player, good enough to be the best player in a bad team, but also not one who was miscast as a 4th option/6th man in prior seasons.  He’s probably worth his contract, or close to it, but he’s not worth a bevy of picks in addition.  Good for Detroit if they can flip him for some draft picks and young players.  If we could get him by sending Thompson, a couple of prospects were tiring of, and a single 1st, such that were able to preserve our TPE, I might be interested, but the 2+ 1sts and the minimum amount of salary to necessary to stay under the tax that I see here would be locking ourselves into still being one move away from title contention.

I just have to say that if DET does make a trade like Nesmith, G Williams, and two 1sts, then that is pretty amazing for them. Not necessarily because of Grant's value, but because they just signed him as a FA half a season ago and now they stand to acquire the equivalent of 4 1st round picks (I am aware calling Nesmith and G Williams 1st rounders might trigger some) w/o taking on any real salary.

I get that Grant is still young and could fit in with the next generation of young talent in DET, but to basically get 4 1st round picks for absolutely nothing other than using their cap space this past offseason would be crazy. And here we are with Kemba and Thompson who people think we'd need to give up picks to shed them from our roster.

[Moranis]

If I'm Detroit I probably make a team that wants Grant also take on Plumlee to clear his salary off the books.  So with that in mind, I think you'd have to do 2 trades. 

So trade 1

Theis, G. Williams, Edwards, Nesmith for Plumlee, Ellington

Trade 2

21 and 23 1sts for Grant

Puts Boston into the tax, but below the hard cap and I think there is enough room for 1 buyout candidate.  And I did the trades that way because the 1st one creates a 2.8 TPE for Boston and the second gives Detroit a 19 million TPE so it adds value and Boston still has basically a MLE sized TPE left on the Hayward one to use this summer.


So post-trades with 1 open roster spot

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Grant, Thompson
Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Smart, Ellington, Langford, Ojeleye, R. Williams, Plumlee
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

I don't know if that team can really hang with the top tier contenders this year, but it is certainly in a much better position to do so.

[Goldstar88]

I think Grant is a great addition to The Celtics but if he didn't want to be a 3rd or 4th option in Denver what would he want to be that on the Celtics?

Because he wanted the $60 million for three years that Detroit was giving him, rather than the far less amount Denver would offer?  He’s making almost as much this season as he’s made in his first six years combined ($19 million vs. $22 million).

I’m not a huge fan of Grant — he’s virtually the same player he’s always been.  His scoring just looks a lot better when his usage doubles and his minutes increase by almost 50%.  He’s a talented player, good enough to be the best player in a bad team, but also not one who was miscast as a 4th option/6th man in prior seasons.  He’s probably worth his contract, or close to it, but he’s not worth a bevy of picks in addition.  Good for Detroit if they can flip him for some draft picks and young players.  If we could get him by sending Thompson, a couple of prospects were tiring of, and a single 1st, such that were able to preserve our TPE, I might be interested, but the 2+ 1sts and the minimum amount of salary to necessary to stay under the tax that I see here would be locking ourselves into still being one move away from title contention.

I just have to say that if DET does make a trade like Nesmith, G Williams, and two 1sts, then that is pretty amazing for them. Not necessarily because of Grant's value, but because they just signed him as a FA half a season ago and now they stand to acquire the equivalent of 4 1st round picks (I am aware calling Nesmith and G Williams 1st rounders might trigger some) w/o taking on any real salary.

I get that Grant is still young and could fit in with the next generation of young talent in DET, but to basically get 4 1st round picks for absolutely nothing other than using their cap space this past offseason would be crazy. And here we are with Kemba and Thompson who people think we'd need to give up picks to shed them from our roster.

What are the chances that the two first rounders, which will be in the 20’s are going to turn out to be Jeremiah Grant level talent? It’s highly unlikely. Nesmith is a huge question mark and he’s has not been getting any playing time lately. Then we have Grant Williams thrown in who is not a first round talent and it’s debatable if he even belongs in the NBA.

So if you are Detroit, why would make this deal and trade away your best player who just turned 27 earlier this month? It makes no sense.

[NKY fan]

The Athletic's James Edwards III reported that the Celtics have offered "multiple firsts" for his services in a recent appearance on The A-List Podcast with A. Sherrod Blakely and Kwani Lunis.

“I believe that Boston has offered multiple firsts for him. I don’t know what multiple means, it could be two, it could be three.
James Edwards III on The A-List Podcast

That said, Edwards did indicate that while Pistons GM Troy Weaver had implied nobody is untouchable, Detroit isn't likely to move Grant, though the Celtics seem to want him badly.

"I don't think Jerami Grant is on another team starting in April. Boston seems like a team that is very, very, very desperate to get him," Edwards said. "Like Troy said, never say never, but I don't think a team is willing to go where it takes to get Jerami away from Detroit."

“We came close to making a trade but in the end we couldn’t meet the demands of the other teams” lol

Has Danny ever consumed a trade where Celtics are the interested party? I assume the ray alen trade and the Garnett trade but I think they forced their way here
He had some jabari bird to Atlanta type trades but those don’t count

[jambr380]

I think Grant is a great addition to The Celtics but if he didn't want to be a 3rd or 4th option in Denver what would he want to be that on the Celtics?

Because he wanted the $60 million for three years that Detroit was giving him, rather than the far less amount Denver would offer?  He’s making almost as much this season as he’s made in his first six years combined ($19 million vs. $22 million).

I’m not a huge fan of Grant — he’s virtually the same player he’s always been.  His scoring just looks a lot better when his usage doubles and his minutes increase by almost 50%.  He’s a talented player, good enough to be the best player in a bad team, but also not one who was miscast as a 4th option/6th man in prior seasons.  He’s probably worth his contract, or close to it, but he’s not worth a bevy of picks in addition.  Good for Detroit if they can flip him for some draft picks and young players.  If we could get him by sending Thompson, a couple of prospects were tiring of, and a single 1st, such that were able to preserve our TPE, I might be interested, but the 2+ 1sts and the minimum amount of salary to necessary to stay under the tax that I see here would be locking ourselves into still being one move away from title contention.

I just have to say that if DET does make a trade like Nesmith, G Williams, and two 1sts, then that is pretty amazing for them. Not necessarily because of Grant's value, but because they just signed him as a FA half a season ago and now they stand to acquire the equivalent of 4 1st round picks (I am aware calling Nesmith and G Williams 1st rounders might trigger some) w/o taking on any real salary.

I get that Grant is still young and could fit in with the next generation of young talent in DET, but to basically get 4 1st round picks for absolutely nothing other than using their cap space this past offseason would be crazy. And here we are with Kemba and Thompson who people think we'd need to give up picks to shed them from our roster.

What are the chances that the two first rounders, which will be in the 20’s are going to turn out to be Jeremiah Grant level talent? It’s highly unlikely. Nesmith is a huge question mark and he’s has not been getting any playing time lately. Then we have Grant Williams thrown in who is not a first round talent and it’s debatable if he even belongs in the NBA.

So if you are Detroit, why would make this deal and trade away your best player who just turned 27 earlier this month? It makes no sense.

I don't know that DET does it, I was just saying that a guy DET decided to 'overpay' as an UFA a couple of months ago could bring them back essentially 4 1st rounders. For a young team rebuilding from scratch, that could be pretty enticing, especially since they don't need to take on any Gerald Wallace type contracts in the process.

And, let's be honest here, all of these teams trading multiple 1st rounders/pick swaps for stars are going to be sending bottom of the barrel picks. I get that the lottery ticket is more enticing than the already picked player, but it's very likely Nesmith is the highest pick of any of these recent trades. And Grant Williams is a very capable player for a late 1st btw. That's just the way it is in the late 1st round.

[NKY fan]

I think Grant is a great addition to The Celtics but if he didn't want to be a 3rd or 4th option in Denver what would he want to be that on the Celtics?

Because he wanted the $60 million for three years that Detroit was giving him, rather than the far less amount Denver would offer?  He’s making almost as much this season as he’s made in his first six years combined ($19 million vs. $22 million).

I’m not a huge fan of Grant — he’s virtually the same player he’s always been.  His scoring just looks a lot better when his usage doubles and his minutes increase by almost 50%.  He’s a talented player, good enough to be the best player in a bad team, but also not one who was miscast as a 4th option/6th man in prior seasons.  He’s probably worth his contract, or close to it, but he’s not worth a bevy of picks in addition.  Good for Detroit if they can flip him for some draft picks and young players.  If we could get him by sending Thompson, a couple of prospects were tiring of, and a single 1st, such that were able to preserve our TPE, I might be interested, but the 2+ 1sts and the minimum amount of salary to necessary to stay under the tax that I see here would be locking ourselves into still being one move away from title contention.

I just have to say that if DET does make a trade like Nesmith, G Williams, and two 1sts, then that is pretty amazing for them. Not necessarily because of Grant's value, but because they just signed him as a FA half a season ago and now they stand to acquire the equivalent of 4 1st round picks (I am aware calling Nesmith and G Williams 1st rounders might trigger some) w/o taking on any real salary.

I get that Grant is still young and could fit in with the next generation of young talent in DET, but to basically get 4 1st round picks for absolutely nothing other than using their cap space this past offseason would be crazy. And here we are with Kemba and Thompson who people think we'd need to give up picks to shed them from our roster.

What are the chances that the two first rounders, which will be in the 20’s are going to turn out to be Jeremiah Grant level talent? It’s highly unlikely. Nesmith is a huge question mark and he’s has not been getting any playing time lately. Then we have Grant Williams thrown in who is not a first round talent and it’s debatable if he even belongs in the NBA.

So if you are Detroit, why would make this deal and trade away your best player who just turned 27 earlier this month? It makes no sense.

I don't know that DET does it, I was just saying that a guy DET decided to 'overpay' as an UFA a couple of months ago could bring them back essentially 4 1st rounders. For a young team rebuilding from scratch, that could be pretty enticing, especially since they don't need to take on any Gerald Wallace type contracts in the process.

And, let's be honest here, all of these teams trading multiple 1st rounders/pick swaps for stars are going to be sending bottom of the barrel picks. I get that the lottery ticket is more enticing than the already picked player, but it's very likely Nesmith is the highest pick of any of these recent trades. And Grant Williams is a very capable player for a late 1st btw. That's just the way it is in the late 1st round.

Puting it that way sounds better for Detroit ... I wonder if we add Romeo to Nesmith and Grant Williams and add 2 pick swaps ... would Detroit do it? I try to keep parameters of the picks traded within 2021-2025 period

[Vermont Green]

If I'm Detroit I probably make a team that wants Grant also take on Plumlee to clear his salary off the books.  So with that in mind, I think you'd have to do 2 trades. 

So trade 1

Theis, G. Williams, Edwards, Nesmith for Plumlee, Ellington

Trade 2

21 and 23 1sts for Grant

Puts Boston into the tax, but below the hard cap and I think there is enough room for 1 buyout candidate.  And I did the trades that way because the 1st one creates a 2.8 TPE for Boston and the second gives Detroit a 19 million TPE so it adds value and Boston still has basically a MLE sized TPE left on the Hayward one to use this summer.


So post-trades with 1 open roster spot

Starters - Walker, Brown, Tatum, Grant, Thompson
Rotation - Pritchard, Teague, Smart, Ellington, Langford, Ojeleye, R. Williams, Plumlee
Deep Bench - Green, Waters, Fall

I don't know if that team can really hang with the top tier contenders this year, but it is certainly in a much better position to do so.

I like the thinking, if in fact taking on Plumlee would help get Jerami, I would be OK with that.  But I would keep Theis and Ellington out of it.  The first trade works with just GWilliams and Nesmith for Plumlee, then the two picks for Jerami.  Detroit doesn't care about Theis (or Edwards) and I would rather have Theis and Edwards over Ellington.

I suspect this still does not quite get it done for Detroit but I like the trade for the Celtics.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Wonder if Danny is pursuing Grant so he can add the Wizards to the mix and move Grant for Beal? A move like this, including 2022 and 2024 swaps for the Wizards, gets us everything we need:

https://tradenba.com/trades/nm6VjWbSY

We’d still have the TPE available for the off-season, too:

Smart/Teague/Pritchard
Beal/Ellington/Langford
Brown/Ojeyele/Nesmith
Tatum/Theis/G. Williams
TT/Plumlee/R. Williams