Every time I watch Bane it makes me a little sick.

[wdleehi]

Way to early to give up on a draft pick, especially in a year with no offseason, no practice time and no team bonding time.   


It is to bad the Celtics didn't have a NBDL team to send Nesmith to help him get the time to get his rhythm together. 


The only players on the Celtics team I don't see room to improve and be useful is Edwards and Wagner (not counting the 2 way guys)

[Celtics4ever]

I think Grant is on the won't improve list as well.  His deficits are in the area of physical athletic talent which are the hardest to fix.  But too each his own.

I recall watching the draft and commentators saying the GWill pick was really good.

Same guys who liked Fultz?  they were wrong too.  Dragon Bender, same thing.   Drafting is a crap shoot.

His 26" standing vertical was a good warning sign.   Leaping isn't everything is basketball but it helps in a multitude of ways.

From CBS Sports:

22. Boston Celtics: PF Grant Williams, Tennessee

What is he exceptional at? He's exceptional at playing basketball. He's not as tall or athletic, no, but he played in the most athletic league in the country and got where he wanted to get. Look back at a recent drafts -- at a different position: The same things people say about Grant Williams, they said about Fred VanVleet, Jalen Brunson. NBA GMs are learning: Just take guys who are awesome at basketball. Grade: B

From The Ringer:

22. Boston Celtics: Grant Williams, F, Tennessee
The Celtics are taking advantage of having so many first-round picks to attack the draft in multiple ways. Langford was a classic buy-low pick—a player who might have been drafted lower than he should have because of extenuating circumstances (in this case, a broken thumb). Williams is the opposite. The junior big man was one of the most dominant players in the NCAA last season, but concerns about his athleticism and lack of an NBA position caused him to slide to the end of the first round. The key for Williams, who played out of the post in college, is to become more of a 3-point shooter. He could certainly make the transition. He’s an excellent midrange shooter with a high basketball IQ and a soft touch around the basket. If he extends his shot, he has a chance to dramatically outplay his draft position in Boston.

If this was true then why did his draft position fall to us, there is always a flip side.

From NBA DRAFT NET

Weaknesses:  Williams is an undersized forward at 6’7 which is small for a player who lacks in athleticism and makes most of his impact in the post … Not an explosive athlete, plays below the rim … Foul prone, fouled out of 4 games including two matchups against top talent in the country in Gonzaga and Kansas … Williams struggles to stay in front of quicker guards due to his lack of athleticism and height … While capable of hitting from beyond the arc, Williams digressed from his freshman year to junior year. Very capable from mid-range and the free throw line, but needs to continually improve from three if he plans to find a role as a small-ball four in the NBA … Hesitant to utilize jumper, typically makes impact in the post or opts to pass on open shot to get the ball into the block … Williams may struggle to create off the dribble considering we saw most of his offensive skill set in the post or catch-and-shoot opportunities on the perimeter.

So there was bad out there too easy for all to see. 

He does not have a position.   Too small to guard bigs, not athletic to guard wings.   Can't get off a shot in close proximity to a defender.   He can shoot threes at what 39% trouble is he has to be very wide open to get off the shot and his team mates you can tell don't trust him on offense.  There are reasons for that.

Grants is not the problem but he is prime example.  Let me make that clear.  But general lack of talent is the problem not Grant.   He does seem like a great guy and good human being so is Mr. Rogers and he didn't make it in pro basketball.

Just for laughs we are 7-4 when he does not play

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-record-when-grant-williams-does-not-play

Guy is not good enough to be playing rotational minutes, fine end of the bench it is not his fault but with us this is true of half our team.   It's Danny fault for assembling this team of mismatched parts and drafting him in this case.

It is easier for an athlete to develop skills than a non athletic guy to develop athletic ability.  This is true, look at Rob and Brown as examples and I realize some athletic guys never blossom.   But how many non athletes become better athletes.   Strength you can develop but vertical is very hard to improve and speed and quickness.   Please note that they can be improved but just not as much as skill or strength.

[nickagneta]

C'mon people, Danny has forgotten more about basketball than y'all probably ever knew.  I trust him and yes, there are some picks I question, but maybe, as an ex-NBA player, he saw something.

True, but this also cuts both ways what pray tell did he see in Grant Williams?

If we were winning we would not be having this discussion.

I recall watching the draft and commentators saying the GWill pick was really good.

From CBS Sports:

22. Boston Celtics: PF Grant Williams, Tennessee

What is he exceptional at? He's exceptional at playing basketball. He's not as tall or athletic, no, but he played in the most athletic league in the country and got where he wanted to get. Look back at a recent drafts -- at a different position: The same things people say about Grant Williams, they said about Fred VanVleet, Jalen Brunson. NBA GMs are learning: Just take guys who are awesome at basketball. Grade: B

From The Ringer:

22. Boston Celtics: Grant Williams, F, Tennessee
The Celtics are taking advantage of having so many first-round picks to attack the draft in multiple ways. Langford was a classic buy-low pick—a player who might have been drafted lower than he should have because of extenuating circumstances (in this case, a broken thumb). Williams is the opposite. The junior big man was one of the most dominant players in the NCAA last season, but concerns about his athleticism and lack of an NBA position caused him to slide to the end of the first round. The key for Williams, who played out of the post in college, is to become more of a 3-point shooter. He could certainly make the transition. He’s an excellent midrange shooter with a high basketball IQ and a soft touch around the basket. If he extends his shot, he has a chance to dramatically outplay his draft position in Boston.

Grade: A

There are more of these, but the TV broadcast that night thought it to be a very good pick.

C4E just has an irrational hate for players who don't confirm to some perfect athletic model of what a basketball player should look like and how high he can jump.

Talent, BBIQ, strength, versatility, etc....isn't nearly as important in his opinion.

[Celtics4ever]

C4E just has an irrational hate for players who don't confirm to some perfect athletic model of what a basketball player should look like and how high he can jump.

Talent, BBIQ, strength, versatility, etc....isn't nearly as important in his opinion.

Please don't tell me you think Grant has any of these in spades save strength and maybe a smidgen of BBIQ.  He is not versatile,  as he really does not have a position.   He can't guard bigs, or stay in front of wings.  He is not strong enough to guard centers nor does the have the speed to stay in front of perimeter guys.  He does have some strength and basketball IQ but not to an elite level.  Talent is what I think is most important, sir and our best players have a mix of athletic talent with elite skill.

You're  literally defending a guy who averages 4.7 PPG, 3 RPG, 1 APG with 18 mpg.  I don't blame guys like Grant this is not his fault.   But I do know  that you can teach athletic guys to shoot, pass and stuff from coaching and playing.   You can't teach non-athletic guys to be athletic to the same extent.   Our drafted players who were athletic have developed skills but I can't think of one subpar athlete that became better at running or jumping to the same extent that skill can be developed.   Strength of course is the exception.  But Athletic talent is the key and it is not always run and jump but that helps because much of the game is spent doing those things.  Yes, I like athletic guys and it is an athletic game, Nick.

I do believe that guys with limited athletic ability have the least potential.    You can improve skill a lot and athletic ability marginally.

My favorite Celtic of all time is Larry Bird.  Who was not the most athletic guy but even his standing vert was better than Grant's.  No one has ever had as good as hand eye coordination as Larry.  His basketball IQ was off the charts and he was truly versatile.   He was able to over come his deficits we've not seen one lick of that from GW.  There are guys like Joker, Bird and Luka that are still great athletes but not elite but they are tough upstairs and have elite skill sets.   None of our bench guys have that or have even remotely demonstrated that.

[gouki88]

Theo Maledon looks like he will be a much better pro long term than Bane.  Significantly younger and showing real PG skills.  He is the guy that we missed on.  Bane is a dime a dozen type player.  Having a solid rookie year because he stayed in college longer and is more ready, but I don't see Bane as being much more than he is right now i.e. a solid shooter off the bench type player.

Maledon was a guy I wanted.  My draft would have been Nesmith, Maledon, Tillman.  Bey would have been my second choice to Nesmith.

It will be interesting to see how Prichard versus Maledon works out in the long run.

Maledon would’ve been a good choice. I wanted Bey at 14, Tillman at 26 and Reed at 30, or trade 30 down into the 2nd and nab Reed + whatever else we’d get. Would’ve been two reaches, but I would be pretty happy with the G-League MVP and Tillman.

However, PP was a better pick than either Tillman or Reed. And I see the reasoning behind Nesmith over Bey, as Nesmith is younger and has a better athletic profile for the NBA.

[gouki88]

C4E just has an irrational hate for players who don't confirm to some perfect athletic model of what a basketball player should look like and how high he can jump.

Talent, BBIQ, strength, versatility, etc....isn't nearly as important in his opinion.

Please don't tell me you think Grant has any of these in spades save strength and maybe a smidgen of BBIQ.  He is not versatile,  as he really does not have a position.   He can't guard bigs, or stay in front of wings.  He is not strong enough to guard centers nor does the have the speed to stay in front of perimeter guys.  He does have some strength and basketball IQ but not to an elite level.  Talent is what I think is most important, sir and our best players have a mix of athletic talent with elite skill.

You're  literally defending a guy who averages 4.7 PPG, 3 RPG, 1 APG with 18 mpg.  I don't blame guys like Grant this is not his fault.   But I do know  that you can teach athletic guys to shoot, pass and stuff from coaching and playing.   You can't teach non-athletic guys to be athletic to the same extent.   Our drafted players who were athletic have developed skills but I can't think of one subpar athlete that became better at running or jumping to the same extent that skill can be developed.   Strength of course is the exception.  But Athletic talent is the key and it is not always run and jump but that helps because much of the game is spent doing those things.  Yes, I like athletic guys and it is an athletic game, Nick.

I do believe that guys with limited athletic ability have the least potential.    You can improve skill a lot and athletic ability marginally.

My favorite Celtic of all time is Larry Bird.  Who was not the most athletic guy but even his standing vert was better than Grant's.  No one has ever had as good as hand eye coordination as Larry.  His basketball IQ was off the charts and he was truly versatile.   He was able to over come his deficits we've not seen one lick of that from GW.  There are guys like Joker, Bird and Luka that are still great athletes but not elite but they are tough upstairs and have elite skill sets.   None of our bench guys have that or have even remotely demonstrated that.

You turn almost every single post of yours into a weird anti-Grant Williams tirade. It’s definitely fair to label it irrational

[Moranis]

Theo Maledon looks like he will be a much better pro long term than Bane.  Significantly younger and showing real PG skills.  He is the guy that we missed on.  Bane is a dime a dozen type player.  Having a solid rookie year because he stayed in college longer and is more ready, but I don't see Bane as being much more than he is right now i.e. a solid shooter off the bench type player.

Maledon was a guy I wanted.  My draft would have been Nesmith, Maledon, Tillman.  Bey would have been my second choice to Nesmith.

It will be interesting to see how Prichard versus Maledon works out in the long run.

Pritchard seems more like Bane to me i.e. a guy that is doing pretty well as a rookie because he stayed in college awhile.  Now sometimes those guys end up making huge strides, but a lot of the time they don't progress like the younger rookies do.  This is true even for the super elite level talents, like Tim Duncan (or any of the older guys).  They by and large entered the league and were stars right away, while the younger guys took some time to reach that level (again even the greats like Lebron, KG, Kobe, etc.).  GM's often get a lot of flack for drafting the younger more unproven players over the more established players, but by and large that is the right strategy even if means you miss more often because the older guys do tend to be near finished products when they enter the league.

[liam]

Bane is shooting 45% from 3.


 

[liam]

Bane with 16 points on 6-10 shooting 3-5 from 4 rebounds and 6 assists 0 turnovers in a win over the Bucks.


BAAAAAAAAAAAANNNEEEEE!!!!

[SHAQATTACK]

Bane with 16 points on 6-10 shooting 3-5 from 4 rebounds and 6 assists 0 turnovers in a win over the Bucks.


BAAAAAAAAAAAANNNEEEEE!!!!

I liked him a lot .  True big willing to do the dirty work.

[SHAQATTACK]

I think Grant is on the won't improve list as well.  His deficits are in the area of physical athletic talent which are the hardest to fix.  But too each his own.

I recall watching the draft and commentators saying the GWill pick was really good.

Same guys who liked Fultz?  they were wrong too.  Dragon Bender, same thing.   Drafting is a crap shoot.

His 26" standing vertical was a good warning sign.   Leaping isn't everything is basketball but it helps in a multitude of ways.

From CBS Sports:

22. Boston Celtics: PF Grant Williams, Tennessee

What is he exceptional at? He's exceptional at playing basketball. He's not as tall or athletic, no, but he played in the most athletic league in the country and got where he wanted to get. Look back at a recent drafts -- at a different position: The same things people say about Grant Williams, they said about Fred VanVleet, Jalen Brunson. NBA GMs are learning: Just take guys who are awesome at basketball. Grade: B

From The Ringer:

22. Boston Celtics: Grant Williams, F, Tennessee
The Celtics are taking advantage of having so many first-round picks to attack the draft in multiple ways. Langford was a classic buy-low pick—a player who might have been drafted lower than he should have because of extenuating circumstances (in this case, a broken thumb). Williams is the opposite. The junior big man was one of the most dominant players in the NCAA last season, but concerns about his athleticism and lack of an NBA position caused him to slide to the end of the first round. The key for Williams, who played out of the post in college, is to become more of a 3-point shooter. He could certainly make the transition. He’s an excellent midrange shooter with a high basketball IQ and a soft touch around the basket. If he extends his shot, he has a chance to dramatically outplay his draft position in Boston.

If this was true then why did his draft position fall to us, there is always a flip side.

From NBA DRAFT NET

Weaknesses:  Williams is an undersized forward at 6’7 which is small for a player who lacks in athleticism and makes most of his impact in the post … Not an explosive athlete, plays below the rim … Foul prone, fouled out of 4 games including two matchups against top talent in the country in Gonzaga and Kansas … Williams struggles to stay in front of quicker guards due to his lack of athleticism and height … While capable of hitting from beyond the arc, Williams digressed from his freshman year to junior year. Very capable from mid-range and the free throw line, but needs to continually improve from three if he plans to find a role as a small-ball four in the NBA … Hesitant to utilize jumper, typically makes impact in the post or opts to pass on open shot to get the ball into the block … Williams may struggle to create off the dribble considering we saw most of his offensive skill set in the post or catch-and-shoot opportunities on the perimeter.

So there was bad out there too easy for all to see. 

He does not have a position.   Too small to guard bigs, not athletic to guard wings.   Can't get off a shot in close proximity to a defender.   He can shoot threes at what 39% trouble is he has to be very wide open to get off the shot and his team mates you can tell don't trust him on offense.  There are reasons for that.

Grants is not the problem but he is prime example.  Let me make that clear.  But general lack of talent is the problem not Grant.   He does seem like a great guy and good human being so is Mr. Rogers and he didn't make it in pro basketball.

Just for laughs we are 7-4 when he does not play

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/celtics-record-when-grant-williams-does-not-play

Guy is not good enough to be playing rotational minutes, fine end of the bench it is not his fault but with us this is true of half our team.   It's Danny fault for assembling this team of mismatched parts and drafting him in this case.

It is easier for an athlete to develop skills than a non athletic guy to develop athletic ability.  This is true, look at Rob and Brown as examples and I realize some athletic guys never blossom.   But how many non athletes become better athletes.   Strength you can develop but vertical is very hard to improve and speed and quickness.   Please note that they can be improved but just not as much as skill or strength.

TP ...well done .

[tazzmaniac]

Bane with 16 points on 6-10 shooting 3-5 from 4 rebounds and 6 assists 0 turnovers in a win over the Bucks.


BAAAAAAAAAAAANNNEEEEE!!!!

I liked him a lot .  True big willing to do the dirty work.

Bane isn't a big.  He's a 6'5" SG. 

[tazzmaniac]

The Grizzlies have put together a good young team and they are supposed to get Jaren Jackson back later this month.  They could make some noise in the playoffs. 

[SHAQATTACK]

Bane with 16 points on 6-10 shooting 3-5 from 4 rebounds and 6 assists 0 turnovers in a win over the Bucks.


BAAAAAAAAAAAANNNEEEEE!!!!

I liked him a lot .  True big willing to do the dirty work.

Bane isn't a big.  He's a 6'5" SG.

Oh sorry , I thought about the   X Celtic big man .  My bad

[Goldstar88]

Bane with 16 points on 6-10 shooting 3-5 from 4 rebounds and 6 assists 0 turnovers in a win over the Bucks.


BAAAAAAAAAAAANNNEEEEE!!!!

As long as Fournier Re-signs I won’t feel as bad about Danny gifting him away to Memphis. Bane Was a career 43% from 3pt in his 4 year college career. Not surprised that he continues to shoot the ball well.