Chad Finn: Don't Trade Rob, Romeo or Aaron for Quick Fix

[#1P4P]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Tatum and Brown are the best players on the team and are on the cusp of being ready to lead a team to the Championship, but are they “this year” ready? A Vucevic or Collins trade makes us better, not 2021 Champions better. Tatum has a 4th quarter sloppiness and Brown a lack of assertiveness that they have to purge before leading a team to a Championship.

The Championship improvement will be internal. Eventually, the Williams/Langford/Nesmith trio along with Smart look like excellent complementary pieces to Tatum and Brown on what would be a wonderfully balanced team. All they need is the time to develop and with our best players at 23 and 24, there’s no rush!

[Celtics4ever]

How can you say Langford looks good when he is always hurt?  Reliablity is very important in any job and especially in sports.

So would you rather have Bey now or Aaron?

If we don't make some moves now we waste a time window on Tatum and Brown.   How long will they stay happy with not much help?   One reason they don't pass isn't that they are ball hogs it is because they don't trust all their team mates and a bad shot by them is better than a good shot from some of the other guys.

Also, Grant Williams is actually athletic, he just has a body and athleticism more geared to football than basketball. As a TE or a linebacker, Grant would be considered a very athletic baller.

We are not playing football with all due respect and his 26 inch vertical at the Combo is not athletic by any metric.


"Grant Williams

Standing Reach – 8′ 8.5″

Body Fat Percentage – 5.4%

Hand Length – 9 inches

Hand Width – 10.5 inches

Height without Shoes – 6′ 5.75″

Height with Shoes – 6′ 7.5″

Wingspan – 6′ 9.75″

Standing Vertical Leap – 26.0 inches

Max Vertical Leap – 31.5 inches

Shuttle Run – 3.27 seconds

Lane Agility – 10.83 seconds

Three Quarter Sprint – 3.33 seconds

Max Bench Press – 20"

https://www.rockytopinsider.com/2019/05/20/how-vol-players-performed-at-2019-nba-draft-combine/

His standing vertical is below NBA average which is about 28".  His shuttle run I recall being solid that year.  As for the bench press NFL guys can do 225 lbs not 185 lbs many more times than that 20.  Smart who is smaller and thinner did 19 reps, that is strong.  20 for a guy with Grant's build may be strong to an average Joe, but pro-athlete wise is not very good.   He can't do high flying dunks or lobs and can barely dunk it sometimes and gets blocked a lot.   This is what I see, Nick.   One would think he would play harder given his lack of athletic prowess but the effort was great his last game, but has been lacking in others.   I would challenge your contention that he would be a good football athlete.  He is definitely built like a football player but he would not be an athletic one.

He is a guy who is going to have to hustle to make it in this league.   He can't coast like Rob or the like on raw athletic ability.   He seems like a fine team mate and human being.   It is not his fault he can't rim protect or gets targeted by the other team on offense he was born that way and is asked to do things he should not be asked to do given his limitations.  He starts playing like his career depends on it, he might stick.  If not, and he coasts like he did early in the season and he will be out of the league in quick order.   I  think his six million is nice cap match in a trade.   But no one and I mean no one is going to call and ask for him.   We'd have to give up picks to move him.  Also, we play Green ahead of him all the time because he is a better athletic match up. 

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

We should have keep Rozier.  Kemba seemed like a panic move to me.    None of the prospects save Rob have shown any of the potential of Terry.  Nesmith has some potential but seems gun shy.   Langford has shown some good defense and has some athletic potential but can't stay healthy.  Grant has had some good games but does not show much potential and has way more bad ones with little room for him to improve athletically.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Only if they are quality prospects.   James Young, Gerschon Yabusele ,  Ante Zizic, Jared Sullinger, Fab Melo and RJ Hunter probably don't agree with you and are nice counterpoint to your argument.

[Celtics4ever]

Also, by the logic of some we would have never moved Al Jefferson and Delonte West for KG.   I know there is not a KG out there available, this time but if you can make a move that helps the team, I think you have to do it.

Do folks think we should just throw in the towel because of Brooklyn?

[PAOBoston]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Tatum and Brown are the best players on the team and are on the cusp of being ready to lead a team to the Championship, but are they “this year” ready? A Vucevic or Collins trade makes us better, not 2021 Champions better. Tatum has a 4th quarter sloppiness and Brown a lack of assertiveness that they have to purge before leading a team to a Championship.

The Championship improvement will be internal. Eventually, the Williams/Langford/Nesmith trio along with Smart look like excellent complementary pieces to Tatum and Brown on what would be a wonderfully balanced team. All they need is the time to develop and with our best players at 23 and 24, there’s no rush!

There are multiple options to improving the roster. Player development is one of them but it doesn’t mean we just have to keep every player and develop them and never make trades to improve the team. Sorry, that is faulty logic. I don’t think Nesmith or Langford will be taking us to the promised land.

The Cs don’t have all the time in the world. They are on the clock. They basically have 4 years to figure something out to make them viable contenders or JB and JT are walking out that door to a team that will get pieces around them. Cs need to show they are willing to get pieces to help those guys.

[#1P4P]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

We should have keep Rozier.  Kemba seemed like a panic move to me.    None of the prospects save Rob have shown any of the potential of Terry.  Nesmith has some potential but seems gun shy.   Langford has shown some good defense and has some athletic potential but can't stay healthy.  Grant has had some good games but does not show much potential and has way more bad ones with little room for him to improve athletically.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Only if they are quality prospects.   James Young, Gerschon Yabusele ,  Ante Zizic, Jared Sullinger, Fab Melo and RJ Hunter probably don't agree with you and are nice counterpoint to your argument.

I purposefully omitted the non-quality prospects on our roster for that reason. They’re expendable, low-floor/ceiling prospects. Edwards, Waters, Fall, Green, and to a lesser extent, G Williams and Semi, are still on the roster because they have good work ethics that fit into the culture, but they’re not the ones I advocate that we wait for their development.

Unlike Romeo and Nesmith, Rob is in his 3rd year. He, like Romeo, was limited by injuries in his first 2 years only playing in 61 games. Romeo and Nesmith’s potential is evident, but if you don’t see it, you don’t see it. For most quality prospects, you see glimpses in limited play and factor in their character and work ethic and go from there.

Btw, there is no parallel to the pre-KG Pierce Celtics. Paul was 30, on a losing, young team, and KG and Ray were available. Tatum and Brown are 23 and 24, respectively, under contract for at least 4 years, have been to the playoffs every year, and Vucevic and Collins might be available. If a future HOFer becomes available to pair with Tatum and Brown it’s a different story, until then, we have another 2 years to invest into prospect development.

[#1P4P]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Tatum and Brown are the best players on the team and are on the cusp of being ready to lead a team to the Championship, but are they “this year” ready? A Vucevic or Collins trade makes us better, not 2021 Champions better. Tatum has a 4th quarter sloppiness and Brown a lack of assertiveness that they have to purge before leading a team to a Championship.

The Championship improvement will be internal. Eventually, the Williams/Langford/Nesmith trio along with Smart look like excellent complementary pieces to Tatum and Brown on what would be a wonderfully balanced team. All they need is the time to develop and with our best players at 23 and 24, there’s no rush!

There are multiple options to improving the roster. Player development is one of them but it doesn’t mean we just have to keep every player and develop them and never make trades to improve the team. Sorry, that is faulty logic. I don’t think Nesmith or Langford will be taking us to the promised land.

The Cs don’t have all the time in the world. They are on the clock. They basically have 4 years to figure something out to make them viable contenders or JB and JT are walking out that door to a team that will get pieces around them. Cs need to show they are willing to get pieces to help those guys.

The J’s are 23 and 24, have been to the playoffs every year, the ECF 3 out of their respective 4/5 total seasons, 1 and 2x AS, a Jordan endorsement deal, NBPA position, USA team members, and are averaging career highs in points, etc. Any worrying about and decision-making based on contract expiration dates is fear mongering and the best way to “Dombrowski” what is on the precipice of being a sustainable Championship contender.

The logic you’re using would make it seem like we haven’t been to the Eastern Conference Finals 3 out of the last 4 years before our best players even hit their primes. In the next 2 years, we’ll see who will or won’t be taking us to the promised land.

[spikelovetheCelts]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Tatum and Brown are the best players on the team and are on the cusp of being ready to lead a team to the Championship, but are they “this year” ready? A Vucevic or Collins trade makes us better, not 2021 Champions better. Tatum has a 4th quarter sloppiness and Brown a lack of assertiveness that they have to purge before leading a team to a Championship.

The Championship improvement will be internal. Eventually, the Williams/Langford/Nesmith trio along with Smart look like excellent complementary pieces to Tatum and Brown on what would be a wonderfully balanced team. All they need is the time to develop and with our best players at 23 and 24, there’s no rush!

There are multiple options to improving the roster. Player development is one of them but it doesn’t mean we just have to keep every player and develop them and never make trades to improve the team. Sorry, that is faulty logic. I don’t think Nesmith or Langford will be taking us to the promised land.

The Cs don’t have all the time in the world. They are on the clock. They basically have 4 years to figure something out to make them viable contenders or JB and JT are walking out that door to a team that will get pieces around them. Cs need to show they are willing to get pieces to help those guys.

The J’s are 23 and 24, have been to the playoffs every year, the ECF 3 out of their respective 4/5 total seasons, 1 and 2x AS, a Jordan endorsement deal, NBPA position, USA team members, and are averaging career highs in points, etc. Any worrying about and decision-making based on contract expiration dates is fear mongering and the best way to “Dombrowski” what is on the precipice of being a sustainable Championship contender.

The logic you’re using would make it seem like we haven’t been to the Eastern Conference Finals 3 out of the last 4 years before our best players even hit their primes. In the next 2 years, we’ll see who will or won’t be taking us to the promised land.

There is nothing we can do to beat the Nets this year. When KD is healthy and they add 2 more buyout guys they will be unbeatable. We can still beat Phily IMO opinion to make it 4 out of 5 to ECF. We have to let TL  Nesmith and Langford play this year. Use the TPE in the offseason. Vuc is the only player that moves the needle this year. 

[spikelovetheCelts]

Also, by the logic of some we would have never moved Al Jefferson and Delonte West for KG.   I know there is not a KG out there available, this time but if you can make a move that helps the team, I think you have to do it.

Do folks think we should just throw in the towel because of Brooklyn?

No but besides getting Bradley Beal and Vuc we will not beat a healthy Net team IMO. But we can make the ECF again possibly. Phily looks like they will get Lowry right now. The Bucks will mortgage the Farm to win as well. Maturity is what we need more than not having picks for the next 5yrs.

[PAOBoston]

We traded Rozier for Kemba, #8(Sexton)/Crowder/Thomas/Zizic for Irving, and witnessed the consequences of those win-now trades.

Being patient and allowing young players to develop isn’t gratifying when the losses pile up in the interim, but like the Rozier and #8/Sexton trades, it would be in our best interest to keep our prospects and allow them to do just that.

Tatum and Brown are the best players on the team and are on the cusp of being ready to lead a team to the Championship, but are they “this year” ready? A Vucevic or Collins trade makes us better, not 2021 Champions better. Tatum has a 4th quarter sloppiness and Brown a lack of assertiveness that they have to purge before leading a team to a Championship.

The Championship improvement will be internal. Eventually, the Williams/Langford/Nesmith trio along with Smart look like excellent complementary pieces to Tatum and Brown on what would be a wonderfully balanced team. All they need is the time to develop and with our best players at 23 and 24, there’s no rush!

There are multiple options to improving the roster. Player development is one of them but it doesn’t mean we just have to keep every player and develop them and never make trades to improve the team. Sorry, that is faulty logic. I don’t think Nesmith or Langford will be taking us to the promised land.

The Cs don’t have all the time in the world. They are on the clock. They basically have 4 years to figure something out to make them viable contenders or JB and JT are walking out that door to a team that will get pieces around them. Cs need to show they are willing to get pieces to help those guys.

The J’s are 23 and 24, have been to the playoffs every year, the ECF 3 out of their respective 4/5 total seasons, 1 and 2x AS, a Jordan endorsement deal, NBPA position, USA team members, and are averaging career highs in points, etc. Any worrying about and decision-making based on contract expiration dates is fear mongering and the best way to “Dombrowski” what is on the precipice of being a sustainable Championship contender.

The logic you’re using would make it seem like we haven’t been to the Eastern Conference Finals 3 out of the last 4 years before our best players even hit their primes. In the next 2 years, we’ll see who will or won’t be taking us to the promised land.

This isn’t baseball. It’s the NBA where high profile star players literally run the asylum and can force their way out of any situation basically on a whim. It’s something that needs to be managed and a real fear.

What has happened in the last few years is irrelevant at this point. So far, the team seems to have under achieved and has taken a step back this year. Maybe not JB and JT but the rest of the roster is pretty much subpar. Managing those two and getting them the adequate help they need is the priority, not hoping Langford and Nesmith become serviceable role players 3 years down the line. If there is a deal that can bring in a better player that can fit with JB/JT, then Ainge needs to make it.

[todd_days_41]

This isn’t baseball. It’s the NBA where high profile star players literally run the asylum and can force their way out of any situation basically on a whim. It’s something that needs to be managed and a real fear.

Well put, and something most fans just don't care to hear because they want to live in the now.

It's part of the reason Ainge's 3 major signings have been edge max guys. He believed they could be happy in this market, even if they're Tier 2 "stars".

Ainge gambled on Kyrie and that blew up in his face. AD was also not a good bet to put team ahead of himself. James Harden clearly falls into this category as well. His make-up includes two elements not well suited to Boston: vanity and partying.