Rob Williams vs players like him in NBA

[dannyboy35]

  We know Rob can block shots but so could Hassan Whiteside last year and now he holds very little value. We hear the same with other defenders who DO protect the rim , yet struggle on pick and roll.
   I wanted to get some knowledgeable fan opinions because it’s just way better than what I hear on radio or even Nba tv.
   How is a guy like Myles Turner a DPOY candidate if ( from what I have watched) every team has particularly schemed against HIM and he’s trailing plays and cant catch up? t’s mid range field days at the foul line extended  almost or an occasional lob over his head cuz he can’t get back when he does come out. I know this is the scheme they chose with him in their personnel but is this ultimately a winnable strategy for a contending team or do you think it needs to be in limited minutes?
    I think Rob is a better passer than similar drop defenders like Capela, Drummond ( uggh) , Turner , Adams etc.. I’m leaving guys out. But with Rob’s good offensive instincts do you think it’s worth what he may give up on pick and roll as a starting center?
   I know there’s also his health being a big factor but for this question I pretty much am pretending that’s not an issue.
 This question is me trying to understand the game better and I wanted to ask here ‘cuz I do like the big bball brains in this forum.
 Thanks in advance.
 

[Jiri Welsch]

Just to be clear, it seems from your post the main question you're asking is: What do you make of RWIII's weakness with the pick and roll, and is that sustainable if the Celtics want to have a top defense?

My answer would be: Rob Williams is not a finished product, and has the lateral quickness to eventually become a guy that can defend perimeter players like we see Theis do. Williams has the 7'6'' wingspan to block/effectively contest jump shooters, and also will get better over time recognizing switches and when he's not getting help, etc.

I saw Tom Westerholm tweet this yesterday, and I think it underscores the fact that Williams is very much growing into the player he'll eventually become:

Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA 12h
Kind of a wild stat: Robert Williams in his third year has played 1,116 minutes total in his career.

27 NBA players have played more than 1,116 minutes *this season*

[td450]

Defending pick and rolls, and getting up on smaller players requires a level of athletic quickness but it also requires a significant amount of skill. Rob is actually athletically quicker than Theis, but Theis gets lower, has excellent footwork and makes quicker reads.

With Rob, I'm pretty sure he can get to the point where he can do what Theis does.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I don’t doubt that TL can become a good pick and roll defender. He has the athleticism he just needs the experience.

[todd_days_41]

There is no player like Bob in the NBA. He's a special snowflake.

[Somebody]

Okay I don't think that Turner should be a DPOY candidate (he has weaknesses that can be really exploited in the playoffs), but the reason why him and Capela are considered to be borderline stars are due to their qualitative advantages on defence compared to guys like Drummond/Adams/Robert: besides their great physical tools that allow them to block and disrupt shots at high volume in the paint (shots at the rim are the highest value shot you can get), their defensive awareness make them low error defenders as they don't miss a lot of rotations and are usually in sound defensive position to contest shots or deter opposing players from attacking high value areas or making high value plays. Drummond/Adams are lacking in both aspects while Robert is lacking in the mental part of the game on defence, it's why he's posting very good numbers in per possession defensive metrics in limited minutes where we scheme around his defensive weaknesses.

Robert's passing and ability to be a massive lob threat will separate him from the big men mentioned above: he has the potential to be a decent positive on offence ala Draymond/Bam rather than being stuck as a neutral offensive player because even though both him and the other guys can't create their own offence, Robert can add value to good offences by being a high post passing hub and a huge target in the PnR where he can dive into the paint and either finish or make the extra pass with his aforementioned passing skill to maintain or even enhance the advantage created by his teammates.

Robert's issue is that he doesn't have great awareness and BBIQ: teams can scheme to take advantage of stuff like his defensive lapses and tendency to be casual with some of his passes to chip away at his impact, but if he ever puts it together we'll have an incredible player on our hands - he can be anything from Bam last year to a Gobert-like entity with excellent passing and some floor spacing.

[PAOBoston]

Robert's issue is that he doesn't have great awareness and BBIQ: teams can scheme to take advantage of stuff like his defensive lapses and tendency to be casual with some of his passes to chip away at his impact, but if he ever puts it together we'll have an incredible player on our hands - he can be anything from Bam last year to a Gobert-like entity with excellent passing and some floor spacing.

Pretty much this on Williams. He has the athleticism but not sure if he has the BBIQ. We will find out. Also, health is an important factor here. He needs to show he can stay healthy. His hip worries me. He had issue with it last year and they are watching his minutes this year due to it as well. Not sure he will have longevity if that hip is chronic/degenerative.

[rollie mass]

I believe that Rob  being brought along by Celtis like no other team would or could.From his earliest days and having a mentor being able to commute to Red Claws but he did spend most of his first year sitting,traveling with the team watching the effort that players put in basically red shirted..Moving him next to a brand new practice facility supplying coaches.Any other team would have thrown him into a sink or swim. situations.Brad didn't rush Rob picked his matchups and managed his minutes..
I worry about his athleticism and competitiveness causing an injury as he gets knocked around mid air while contorting himself.

Every game it seems, some aspect of his game gets high lighted to me. interdicting passing lanes for a breakaway ,his rebounding like every ball was his against the Clippers. in 4th quarter
I was blessed watching Russell and Rob now blocking closeouts even on step backs and sidesteps while controlling  the ball.
The timing of his pick and roles has gotten so much better and his handoffs are now so confident with timing and fluidity so important to his teammates coming off a screen or dribble handoffs
.I.m an Aaron Gordon and John Collins fan but watching Rob grow game by game is mind blowing

 

[dannyboy35]

Ah, those are some pretty hopeful responses. I wouldn’t have realized he could be as quick as Theis laterally. That’s super encouraging. I’m in love with his offensive instincts and clearly the shot blocking.

[Somebody]

Ah, those are some pretty hopeful responses. I wouldn’t have realized he could be as quick as Theis laterally. That’s super encouraging. I’m in love with his offensive instincts and clearly the shot blocking.

I wouldn't say that Robert being able to defend the perimeter is a given though. He's quick in short bursts while Theis can maintain his speed in space better - you need to constantly shuffle your feet quickly to stay with the best perimeter dynamos in the league on switches.

But still his package can be insanely valuable (as in top 10-15 player level valuable if he puts everything together and becomes an elite defensive anchor who's a monster offensive rebounder, huge lob threat and excellent passer in the high post and short roll).

[libermaniac]

Ah, those are some pretty hopeful responses. I wouldn’t have realized he could be as quick as Theis laterally. That’s super encouraging. I’m in love with his offensive instincts and clearly the shot blocking.

I'm skeptical that he can become as quick laterally.  I don't think that's something that improves by leaps and bounds via work.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  I find it amazing that he's lightning quick in terms of up and down (I mean last week he bit on a pump fake by a big, went up, came down and still got back up in time to block the shot!) but subpar in terms of lateral quickness.  How is that even possible? 

[gouki88]

I'm really not sure who Williams compares to. His rebounding is hitting insane levels, particularly on the offensive glass, he's a super efficient scorer in limited doses, he's a good passer (this is a big separation point) and he plays the passing lanes really well. Reminds me of young Marcus Camby's athletic ability with old Marcus Camby's passing. But with efficient scoring as opposed to inefficient scoring

[NKY fan]

Ah, those are some pretty hopeful responses. I wouldn’t have realized he could be as quick as Theis laterally. That’s super encouraging. I’m in love with his offensive instincts and clearly the shot blocking.

I'm skeptical that he can become as quick laterally.  I don't think that's something that improves by leaps and bounds via work.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  I find it amazing that he's lightning quick in terms of up and down (I mean last week he bit on a pump fake by a big, went up, came down and still got back up in time to block the shot!) but subpar in terms of lateral quickness.  How is that even possible?

I think this has something to do with his hips. Just a feeling but am no expert
Also his legs are X shaped - compared that to Lebron who has soccer player - like O shaped or bowled ...
I would think with X shaped legs When you move sideways and fast you probably bang your knee joints all the time.

[gouki88]

Ah, those are some pretty hopeful responses. I wouldn’t have realized he could be as quick as Theis laterally. That’s super encouraging. I’m in love with his offensive instincts and clearly the shot blocking.

I'm skeptical that he can become as quick laterally.  I don't think that's something that improves by leaps and bounds via work.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  I find it amazing that he's lightning quick in terms of up and down (I mean last week he bit on a pump fake by a big, went up, came down and still got back up in time to block the shot!) but subpar in terms of lateral quickness.  How is that even possible?

I think this has something to do with his hips. Just a feeling but am no expert

His hip mobility has always been bad. It's a problem similar to Myles Turner, who had physiotherapists try and improve it to no avail.

[PhoSita]

To me, Rob Williams is a much better and more impactful player than Myles Turner.

I'm just never impressed when I watch Turner.  I think he's a soft big who lacks strength and isn't very useful unless his jumper is falling.  He's not nearly as good a shooter in practice as people seem to regard him in theory.


I'm not sure who is a good comp for Rob.  His coordination and gracefulness in making plays in the air or passing it across the court do kind of remind me of Adebayo, but Rob will almost certainly never have Bam's handle.


Hard to think of a guy who was 6'8''-6'9'' but who seemed like he was 6'11'' due to his length and athleticism, who didn't have a great handle but had really fantastic hands and could make some astonishing passes, who had a little bit of shooting range to like 15 feet but who finished >70% mostly by destroying the rim ....