Is Fultz D'Angelo Russell 2.0?

[hpantazo]

I think Fultz is the next James Harden.

That being said, I don't like Harden. He is obviously a very talented player (legitimate MVP candidate this year) but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

Not really sure how this makes sense. Every team James Harden has led has been a winning team except for the season where they fired Kevin McHale. Just because he doesn't win titles out West (as in Western Conference Champs as well as NBA Champs) competing against teams such as the Warriors and the Spurs hardly makes him not a winner - he simply has never really had a strong supporting cast.
The best players he's played alongside have been in decline Dwight Howard and maybe Trevor Ariza / Chandler Parsons.

If Harden and Curry swapped places, Harden would be a winner because he would almost certainly have a ring by now, or at least have won the West.

- plays no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at his best when playing at fast pace -> great player for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs

You could say all the same things about Isaiah, who Harden is a better player than.

The only real issues with Harden are between his ears, things like his questionable motor and desire to win.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Exactly.
That's why people say we can't win a championship with him as our best player. Only difference is that Isaiah is too short to play D whereas Harden simply doesn't care about playing D.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Last time I checked, defense was 50% of the game.

And yet despite defense being 50% of the game, Harden is still a top ten NBA player in contention for 2017 league MVP... So what's your point exactly?

I told you my point. He is obviously a super star but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

You mean just like Lebron, MJ, and KG were not winners until they, you know, won it all? It's way too early to say that about Harden.

[hwangjini_1]

I think Fultz is the next James Harden.

That being said, I don't like Harden. He is obviously a very talented player (legitimate MVP candidate this year) but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

Not really sure how this makes sense. Every team James Harden has led has been a winning team except for the season where they fired Kevin McHale. Just because he doesn't win titles out West (as in Western Conference Champs as well as NBA Champs) competing against teams such as the Warriors and the Spurs hardly makes him not a winner - he simply has never really had a strong supporting cast.
The best players he's played alongside have been in decline Dwight Howard and maybe Trevor Ariza / Chandler Parsons.

If Harden and Curry swapped places, Harden would be a winner because he would almost certainly have a ring by now, or at least have won the West.

- plays no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at his best when playing at fast pace -> great player for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs

You could say all the same things about Isaiah, who Harden is a better player than.

The only real issues with Harden are between his ears, things like his questionable motor and desire to win.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Exactly.
That's why people say we can't win a championship with him as our best player. Only difference is that Isaiah is too short to play D whereas Harden simply doesn't care about playing D.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Last time I checked, defense was 50% of the game.

And yet despite defense being 50% of the game, Harden is still a top ten NBA player in contention for 2017 league MVP... So what's your point exactly?

I told you my point. He is obviously a super star but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

You mean just like Lebron, MJ, and KG were not winners until they, you know, won it all? It's way too early to say that about Harden.

Right. And throw pierce into the entertainer pool as well.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Name me one guy in the last 10 years that was drafted in the top 5 of the draft simply for his defense in college?

Saying he didn't play much D is simply pointing out what 95% of these kids are doing, and that's not playing much D.

Mike Conley?

[Jvalin]

I think Fultz is the next James Harden.

That being said, I don't like Harden. He is obviously a very talented player (legitimate MVP candidate this year) but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

Not really sure how this makes sense. Every team James Harden has led has been a winning team except for the season where they fired Kevin McHale. Just because he doesn't win titles out West (as in Western Conference Champs as well as NBA Champs) competing against teams such as the Warriors and the Spurs hardly makes him not a winner - he simply has never really had a strong supporting cast.
The best players he's played alongside have been in decline Dwight Howard and maybe Trevor Ariza / Chandler Parsons.

If Harden and Curry swapped places, Harden would be a winner because he would almost certainly have a ring by now, or at least have won the West.

- plays no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at his best when playing at fast pace -> great player for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs

You could say all the same things about Isaiah, who Harden is a better player than.

The only real issues with Harden are between his ears, things like his questionable motor and desire to win.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Exactly.
That's why people say we can't win a championship with him as our best player. Only difference is that Isaiah is too short to play D whereas Harden simply doesn't care about playing D.

It's hard to criticize him on anything basketball wise unless your talking defense.

Last time I checked, defense was 50% of the game.

And yet despite defense being 50% of the game, Harden is still a top ten NBA player in contention for 2017 league MVP... So what's your point exactly?

I told you my point. He is obviously a super star but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

You mean just like Lebron, MJ, and KG were not winners until they, you know, won it all? It's way too early to say that about Harden.

Did you even bother to read what I wrote before you posted your response?

I think Fultz is the next James Harden.

That being said, I don't particularly like Harden. He is obviously a very talented player (legitimate MVP candidate this year) but imo he is not a winner. He is an entertainer.

- plays no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at his best when playing at fast pace -> great player for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs

Never said anything about the fact he hasn't won a championship. KG won the championship when he was 32 years old. Wasn't he a winner before that? Of course he was.

[Kaz]

I think D'Angelo Russell is a reasonable floor for Fultz.  I just think he has a better mindset and environment and therefore should be reasonably be expected to become much better.

[Csfan1984]

I never liked Russell and felt he was over rated coming into the league. Fultz I feel is 2x the player. Russell has proven me wrong in that he did turn out to be pretty decent but Idk if he will ever be an all star level PG. Fultz is a beast and it looks like there is nothing he can't do on offense.

[Granath]

Their bodies are similar:

Player A: Height: 6'3.25        6'9.75 WS         8'6     Standing Reach
Player B: Height: 6'3.5          6'9.75 WS         8'5.5  Standing Reach

Their college stats per 40 are very similar:

Player A: 22.3 points per 40  47.9% 2PT%  41.1% 3PT%  FT 75.6%  6.5 Boards 5.8 Ast 1.8 Stls
Player B: 24.9 points per 40  50.2% 2PT%  41.3% 3PT%  FT 64.9%  6.1 Boards 6.4 Ast 1.7 Stls

Your stats are wrong.

Russell:  22.7 points per 40, 6.7 boards, 5.9 assists, 1.9 steals
Fultz:     26.0 points per 40, 6.4 boards, 6.6 assists, 1.7 steals

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dangelo-russell-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

Makes a bit of difference, doesn't it? And while they may be similar size-wise and even somewhat with their statistics you just can't look at numbers. You have to look at the tape.

Russell was and is only considered an average athlete. Worse-than-average jumping and pretty average explosiveness was pretty much the consensus on scouting reports. He got by in college because he was simply taller and longer than most of his opponents. He's not nearly the athlete that Fultz is which is why that Fultz' floor is likely somewhere above Russell's ceiling (barring injury or someone being a head case). Fultz has every tool that Russell has, all the size that Russell has but has the athleticism to back it up.

[mr. dee]

Name me one guy in the last 10 years that was drafted in the top 5 of the draft simply for his defense in college?

Saying he didn't play much D is simply pointing out what 95% of these kids are doing, and that's not playing much D.

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?

Greg Oden
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon

[Future Celtics Owner]

Name me one guy in the last 10 years that was drafted in the top 5 of the draft simply for his defense in college?

Saying he didn't play much D is simply pointing out what 95% of these kids are doing, and that's not playing much D.

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?

Greg Oden
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon

Oden had a broken right wrist (shooting hand).  He was not drafted only for defense.....he would have been 20ppg or more if not for injuries. He had to shoot ft's with his left hand and still shot at a decent percentage.
Oden was drafted as a 2-way player.

[Future Celtics Owner]

LA fan's either hate or love Russell. His work ethic is pretty horrible and has the front office upset...he acts as though he has already "made it" and has false confidence.

Also, Russell is pretty dumb.

Fultz works hard and is a gym rat.

Most importantly:
Fultz is much more of a triple threat. His ability to drive and get to the rim is extremely better than Russell.

[biggs]

If he is, we should trade the pick.

Ha! Agreed. I'm hoping that Fultz is more if a Damian Lillard 2.0

[jyyzzoel]

Their bodies are similar:

Player A: Height: 6'3.25        6'9.75 WS         8'6     Standing Reach
Player B: Height: 6'3.5          6'9.75 WS         8'5.5  Standing Reach

Their college stats per 40 are very similar:

Player A: 22.3 points per 40  47.9% 2PT%  41.1% 3PT%  FT 75.6%  6.5 Boards 5.8 Ast 1.8 Stls
Player B: 24.9 points per 40  50.2% 2PT%  41.3% 3PT%  FT 64.9%  6.1 Boards 6.4 Ast 1.7 Stls

Your stats are wrong.

Russell:  22.7 points per 40, 6.7 boards, 5.9 assists, 1.9 steals
Fultz:     26.0 points per 40, 6.4 boards, 6.6 assists, 1.7 steals

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dangelo-russell-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

Makes a bit of difference, doesn't it? And while they may be similar size-wise and even somewhat with their statistics you just can't look at numbers. You have to look at the tape.

Russell was and is only considered an average athlete. Worse-than-average jumping and pretty average explosiveness was pretty much the consensus on scouting reports. He got by in college because he was simply taller and longer than most of his opponents. He's not nearly the athlete that Fultz is which is why that Fultz' floor is likely somewhere above Russell's ceiling (barring injury or someone being a head case). Fultz has every tool that Russell has, all the size that Russell has but has the athleticism to back it up.

They're pace adjusted off draftexpress.com
I should have specified. Pace adjusted puts everything on a level playing field