Would you trade our both of our 2015 1sts for Noel or Embiid?

[LarBrd33]

For those not paying attention.... Since the all-star break, Nerlens Noel (a raw 20 year old coming off a serious injury) has been a Top 20 player in the league statistically.  Averaging 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 2.6 steals, 1.6 assists on 48% shooting and 69% from the line in 32.6mpg.   For a player of his age/experience, he's putting up historic defensive stats.   This Grantland article last week nailed it:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/  ... Elite big men (especially those with dominant defensive tendencies) are probably the most valuable assets in the league beyond a player who can efficiently drop 30+ per night.  FYI, Anthony Davis averaged 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals as a rookie.  Anyone paying attention knew Davis was on a path to superstardom.   Noel, while certainly more raw offensively, is on a similar path.   

If only we lived in a world where you could get a player like that for a lowly 10-15 pick + a borderline 2nd rounder.    Wouldn't that be nice?  Unfortunately, in the real world that's not possible.  So I'd guess that anyone who responds to this thread with "nah" is out of touch and is probably still campaigning against Boston trading Rajon Rondo for Andre Drummond.

As for Joel Embiid, everything I read about the kid is that he has the potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.   He was widely believed by scouts to be the best prospect pre-injury and many still felt he should have been the #1 pick.   Injury or no injury, the idea that Philly would shy away from the Embiid "gamble" in favor of taking on a couple crap-shoot draft picks is ridiculous.   

Let's stop with these threads.  If we're getting one of Philly's franchise prospects, it's going to take a lot more than you guys imagine.   Sure, if we are talking about a top 5 pick, we might get our foot in the door, but we're currently sitting on picks #11 and #26.  With a package like that, a guy like Nik Stauskas is more in your price range.   Or maybe you can trade up a few picks and take someone at #7-9

This. Hinkie is smart, he knows what his assets are worth. Almost any other GM is more liable to getting fleeced by Ainge.

Much as I love Smart, I'd trade him plus both our firsts for either Embiid or Noel, without hesitation. But Hinkie probably wouldn't.

I agree to an extent. Assuming they believe in Embiid's potential, I think Smart and 2 first rounders sounds right and they might still say no, but in my honest opinion, Smart and 2 first for Noel might be overpay.

I don't think neither Noel or Embiid can play PF, and they are both centers. When Embiid does play next year, is he starting center? or backup to Noel, or vice versa?

I've been preaching this for awhile. In today's NBA they won't be able to thrive as the twin towers defense down there. They don't spread the floor enough on offense, and they won't be able to guard stretch 4's out on the perimeter, which seems to be where every team is headed now. I think they'd be absolutely stupid to take Okafor already having Embiid and Noel. Towns can play the 4, so they'd be smart to pick him and dangle Noel for either a wing or guard type. Imagine if they could trade Noel for a top 7 pick or so and pick Johnson, Mudiay, or Russell along with picking up Towns with their pick. A Johnson, Towns, Embiid frontcourt could be potentially devastating in a couple of years as long as they develop them properly and everyone stays healthy (coughEmbiidcough).

For the reasons you mentioned

If they draft Okafor, they would want to keep Noel
If they draft Towns , Noel or Embiid
If they draft WCS, they would want to keep embiid

I could see Hinkie making a trade with one of the two at some point, especially if they draft Okafor for some reason, but there is no urgency for them to do it right away. If he won the lottery I could see him trading down to #3 or #4 for Towns/Russell/Mudiay instead of Okafor.

Right you MAYBE trade down a couple spots to #3 or #4 (and get some big assets in return).  You're not trading down to #11 + #26.

Best move is to hang onto all 3 elite bigs for a season (plenty of minutes for a 3 big rotation), prove their worth, pick the two you want to build a franchise around and trade the expendable one for an all-star at a position of need.   There's always a market for elite bigs.

[jpotter33]

For those not paying attention.... Since the all-star break, Nerlens Noel (a raw 20 year old coming off a serious injury) has been a Top 20 player in the league statistically.  Averaging 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 2.6 steals, 1.6 assists on 48% shooting and 69% from the line in 32.6mpg.   For a player of his age/experience, he's putting up historic defensive stats.   This Grantland article last week nailed it:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/  ... Elite big men (especially those with dominant defensive tendencies) are probably the most valuable assets in the league beyond a player who can efficiently drop 30+ per night.  FYI, Anthony Davis averaged 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals as a rookie.  Anyone paying attention knew Davis was on a path to superstardom.   Noel, while certainly more raw offensively, is on a similar path.   

If only we lived in a world where you could get a player like that for a lowly 10-15 pick + a borderline 2nd rounder.    Wouldn't that be nice?  Unfortunately, in the real world that's not possible.  So I'd guess that anyone who responds to this thread with "nah" is out of touch and is probably still campaigning against Boston trading Rajon Rondo for Andre Drummond.

As for Joel Embiid, everything I read about the kid is that he has the potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.   He was widely believed by scouts to be the best prospect pre-injury and many still felt he should have been the #1 pick.   Injury or no injury, the idea that Philly would shy away from the Embiid "gamble" in favor of taking on a couple crap-shoot draft picks is ridiculous.   

Let's stop with these threads.  If we're getting one of Philly's franchise prospects, it's going to take a lot more than you guys imagine.   Sure, if we are talking about a top 5 pick, we might get our foot in the door, but we're currently sitting on picks #11 and #26.  With a package like that, a guy like Nik Stauskas is more in your price range.   Or maybe you can trade up a few picks and take someone at #7-9

This. Hinkie is smart, he knows what his assets are worth. Almost any other GM is more liable to getting fleeced by Ainge.

Much as I love Smart, I'd trade him plus both our firsts for either Embiid or Noel, without hesitation. But Hinkie probably wouldn't.

I agree to an extent. Assuming they believe in Embiid's potential, I think Smart and 2 first rounders sounds right and they might still say no, but in my honest opinion, Smart and 2 first for Noel might be overpay.

I don't think neither Noel or Embiid can play PF, and they are both centers. When Embiid does play next year, is he starting center? or backup to Noel, or vice versa?

I've been preaching this for awhile. In today's NBA they won't be able to thrive as the twin towers defense down there. They don't spread the floor enough on offense, and they won't be able to guard stretch 4's out on the perimeter, which seems to be where every team is headed now. I think they'd be absolutely stupid to take Okafor already having Embiid and Noel. Towns can play the 4, so they'd be smart to pick him and dangle Noel for either a wing or guard type. Imagine if they could trade Noel for a top 7 pick or so and pick Johnson, Mudiay, or Russell along with picking up Towns with their pick. A Johnson, Towns, Embiid frontcourt could be potentially devastating in a couple of years as long as they develop them properly and everyone stays healthy (coughEmbiidcough).

If you're Philly, are you trading Nerlens for the #7 pick?  I can't imagine I would.  Philly certainly isn't.

I was just giggling at how funny it would be if the Celtics had drafted a star big man prospect like Embiid or Noel and then traded one of them away for the #11 and #26 picks.  I imagine we'd riot.

If I'm Philly, I take best player available, even if it's Okafor, and then have them split the 96 minutes at the PF/C roles (32 minutes per night each).   Let it play out for a season.  If all three end up as good as expected, they'll have infinite options.  Instead of giving up a can't-miss superstar prospect for a crapshoot #7-11 pick, they can just trade one of those guys for an all-star at a position of need.  That makes WAAAY more sense.  Elite big men are the most valuable assets in the league.  If they decide to move one of those guys, they'll basically have their choice of whatever they want.  Want a Jeff Teague or something? Done.   Want a DeMar Derozan?  Done.  Everyone in the league will line up to trade for the "expendable" 19-21 year old superstar big man prospect and if Boston is offering #11 + #26, they are gonna be way off in the back of the line.

Except that you can't properly develop three potential All-Stars all on the same team who happen to play the same position. Someone will have to be underdeveloped. Neither Okafor nor Embiid have any chance of playing the 4, and I seriously doubt Noel can play it full time. If they can get Towns with their pick, who is a legitimate 4 to pair with Embiid, and trade Noel for either Mudiay, Johnson, or Russell, are you saying you wouldn't do it? That'd give you three guys at needed positions who have All-Star potential, and you'd have the potential core for a championship contending team for years to come.

[greg683x]

For those not paying attention.... Since the all-star break, Nerlens Noel (a raw 20 year old coming off a serious injury) has been a Top 20 player in the league statistically.  Averaging 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 2.6 steals, 1.6 assists on 48% shooting and 69% from the line in 32.6mpg.   For a player of his age/experience, he's putting up historic defensive stats.   This Grantland article last week nailed it:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/  ... Elite big men (especially those with dominant defensive tendencies) are probably the most valuable assets in the league beyond a player who can efficiently drop 30+ per night.  FYI, Anthony Davis averaged 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals as a rookie.  Anyone paying attention knew Davis was on a path to superstardom.   Noel, while certainly more raw offensively, is on a similar path.   

If only we lived in a world where you could get a player like that for a lowly 10-15 pick + a borderline 2nd rounder.    Wouldn't that be nice?  Unfortunately, in the real world that's not possible.  So I'd guess that anyone who responds to this thread with "nah" is out of touch and is probably still campaigning against Boston trading Rajon Rondo for Andre Drummond.

As for Joel Embiid, everything I read about the kid is that he has the potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.   He was widely believed by scouts to be the best prospect pre-injury and many still felt he should have been the #1 pick.   Injury or no injury, the idea that Philly would shy away from the Embiid "gamble" in favor of taking on a couple crap-shoot draft picks is ridiculous.   

Let's stop with these threads.  If we're getting one of Philly's franchise prospects, it's going to take a lot more than you guys imagine.   Sure, if we are talking about a top 5 pick, we might get our foot in the door, but we're currently sitting on picks #11 and #26.  With a package like that, a guy like Nik Stauskas is more in your price range.   Or maybe you can trade up a few picks and take someone at #7-9

This. Hinkie is smart, he knows what his assets are worth. Almost any other GM is more liable to getting fleeced by Ainge.

Much as I love Smart, I'd trade him plus both our firsts for either Embiid or Noel, without hesitation. But Hinkie probably wouldn't.

I agree to an extent. Assuming they believe in Embiid's potential, I think Smart and 2 first rounders sounds right and they might still say no, but in my honest opinion, Smart and 2 first for Noel might be overpay.

I don't think neither Noel or Embiid can play PF, and they are both centers. When Embiid does play next year, is he starting center? or backup to Noel, or vice versa?

I've been preaching this for awhile. In today's NBA they won't be able to thrive as the twin towers defense down there. They don't spread the floor enough on offense, and they won't be able to guard stretch 4's out on the perimeter, which seems to be where every team is headed now. I think they'd be absolutely stupid to take Okafor already having Embiid and Noel. Towns can play the 4, so they'd be smart to pick him and dangle Noel for either a wing or guard type. Imagine if they could trade Noel for a top 7 pick or so and pick Johnson, Mudiay, or Russell along with picking up Towns with their pick. A Johnson, Towns, Embiid frontcourt could be potentially devastating in a couple of years as long as they develop them properly and everyone stays healthy (coughEmbiidcough).

If you're Philly, are you trading Nerlens for the #7 pick?  I can't imagine I would.  Philly certainly isn't.

I was just giggling at how funny it would be if the Celtics had drafted a star big man prospect like Embiid or Noel and then traded one of them away for the #11 and #26 picks.  I imagine we'd riot.

If I'm Philly, I take best player available, even if it's Okafor, and then have them split the 96 minutes at the PF/C roles (32 minutes per night each).   Let it play out for a season.  If all three end up as good as expected, they'll have infinite options.  Instead of giving up a can't-miss superstar prospect for a crapshoot #7-11 pick, they can just trade one of those guys for an all-star at a position of need.  That makes WAAAY more sense.  Elite big men are the most valuable assets in the league.  If they decide to move one of those guys, they'll basically have their choice of whatever they want.  Want a Jeff Teague or something? Done.   Want a DeMar Derozan?  Done.  Everyone in the league will line up to trade for the "expendable" 19-21 year old superstar big man prospect and if Boston is offering #11 + #26, they are gonna be way off in the back of the line.

Except that you can't properly develop three potential All-Stars all on the same team who happen to play the same position. Someone will have to be underdeveloped. Neither Okafor nor Embiid have any chance of playing the 4, and I seriously doubt Noel can play it full time. If they can get Towns with their pick, who is a legitimate 4 to pair with Embiid, and trade Noel for either Mudiay, Johnson, or Russell, are you saying you wouldn't do it? That'd give you three guys at needed positions who have All-Star potential, and you'd have the potential core for a championship contending team for years to come.

You two are both right.  Philly would need to move one of them at some point like stated, they wont have room for all 3.  However, like mentioned, theyre not gonna move him for a crapshoot 7-11 first round pick.  It's laughable to consider that equal value.

Just because Philly will have to move him doesnt mean his value around the league will go down.  Youre crazy if you dont think another team will chime in with another offer that'll blow that 7-10 pick out of the water.

[gpap]

I wouldn't be opposed to Olynyk and one of our picks for Noel.

[Tr1boy]

I wouldn't be opposed to Olynyk and one of our picks for Noel.

naw

our best chance is our 2 1st and phillys 2nd for Noel. That is if they can get Towns or Okafor

I think Philly rather trade embiid 1st though

[tazzmaniac]

For those not paying attention.... Since the all-star break, Nerlens Noel (a raw 20 year old coming off a serious injury) has been a Top 20 player in the league statistically.  Averaging 13 points, 10 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, 2.6 steals, 1.6 assists on 48% shooting and 69% from the line in 32.6mpg.   For a player of his age/experience, he's putting up historic defensive stats.   This Grantland article last week nailed it:  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/  ... Elite big men (especially those with dominant defensive tendencies) are probably the most valuable assets in the league beyond a player who can efficiently drop 30+ per night.  FYI, Anthony Davis averaged 13.5 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals as a rookie.  Anyone paying attention knew Davis was on a path to superstardom.   Noel, while certainly more raw offensively, is on a similar path.   

If only we lived in a world where you could get a player like that for a lowly 10-15 pick + a borderline 2nd rounder.    Wouldn't that be nice?  Unfortunately, in the real world that's not possible.  So I'd guess that anyone who responds to this thread with "nah" is out of touch and is probably still campaigning against Boston trading Rajon Rondo for Andre Drummond.

As for Joel Embiid, everything I read about the kid is that he has the potential to be a dominant player on both ends of the court.   He was widely believed by scouts to be the best prospect pre-injury and many still felt he should have been the #1 pick.   Injury or no injury, the idea that Philly would shy away from the Embiid "gamble" in favor of taking on a couple crap-shoot draft picks is ridiculous.   

Let's stop with these threads.  If we're getting one of Philly's franchise prospects, it's going to take a lot more than you guys imagine.   Sure, if we are talking about a top 5 pick, we might get our foot in the door, but we're currently sitting on picks #11 and #26.  With a package like that, a guy like Nik Stauskas is more in your price range.   Or maybe you can trade up a few picks and take someone at #7-9

This. Hinkie is smart, he knows what his assets are worth. Almost any other GM is more liable to getting fleeced by Ainge.

Much as I love Smart, I'd trade him plus both our firsts for either Embiid or Noel, without hesitation. But Hinkie probably wouldn't.

I agree to an extent. Assuming they believe in Embiid's potential, I think Smart and 2 first rounders sounds right and they might still say no, but in my honest opinion, Smart and 2 first for Noel might be overpay.

I don't think neither Noel or Embiid can play PF, and they are both centers. When Embiid does play next year, is he starting center? or backup to Noel, or vice versa?

I've been preaching this for awhile. In today's NBA they won't be able to thrive as the twin towers defense down there. They don't spread the floor enough on offense, and they won't be able to guard stretch 4's out on the perimeter, which seems to be where every team is headed now. I think they'd be absolutely stupid to take Okafor already having Embiid and Noel. Towns can play the 4, so they'd be smart to pick him and dangle Noel for either a wing or guard type. Imagine if they could trade Noel for a top 7 pick or so and pick Johnson, Mudiay, or Russell along with picking up Towns with their pick. A Johnson, Towns, Embiid frontcourt could be potentially devastating in a couple of years as long as they develop them properly and everyone stays healthy (coughEmbiidcough).

If you're Philly, are you trading Nerlens for the #7 pick?  I can't imagine I would.  Philly certainly isn't.

I was just giggling at how funny it would be if the Celtics had drafted a star big man prospect like Embiid or Noel and then traded one of them away for the #11 and #26 picks.  I imagine we'd riot.

If I'm Philly, I take best player available, even if it's Okafor, and then have them split the 96 minutes at the PF/C roles (32 minutes per night each).   Let it play out for a season.  If all three end up as good as expected, they'll have infinite options.  Instead of giving up a can't-miss superstar prospect for a crapshoot #7-11 pick, they can just trade one of those guys for an all-star at a position of need.  That makes WAAAY more sense.  Elite big men are the most valuable assets in the league.  If they decide to move one of those guys, they'll basically have their choice of whatever they want.  Want a Jeff Teague or something? Done.   Want a DeMar Derozan?  Done.  Everyone in the league will line up to trade for the "expendable" 19-21 year old superstar big man prospect and if Boston is offering #11 + #26, they are gonna be way off in the back of the line.

Except that you can't properly develop three potential All-Stars all on the same team who happen to play the same position. Someone will have to be underdeveloped. Neither Okafor nor Embiid have any chance of playing the 4, and I seriously doubt Noel can play it full time. If they can get Towns with their pick, who is a legitimate 4 to pair with Embiid, and trade Noel for either Mudiay, Johnson, or Russell, are you saying you wouldn't do it? That'd give you three guys at needed positions who have All-Star potential, and you'd have the potential core for a championship contending team for years to come.

Why do you think Noel can't play the 4?  His size and quickness fit the 4 better.  He gets easily outmuscled by the bigger centers like Cousins.  Defensively Noel at the 4 and Embiid at the 5 seems like a strong combo.  That's a lot of rim protection but there also quite mobile too.  Offensively it would take some work but Embiid is a good shooter and Noel is developing his mid range jumper. 

[Ogaju]

NO, Embiid has bust written all over him.

[chambers]

Hinkie is crazy.  He does not like how his draft pick look one day and then will trade them next.

What did he really get out of trading MCW, KJ Mcdaniel?

He gets one of Okafor or Towns , one of Noel or Embiid could be out. Celtics have what Hinkie wants. Picks

He traded MCW because he's a an over rated ball hog who was abysmal statistically. He didn't want him on the team long term so he traded him.

He traded KJ McDaniels before he walked in free agency next year. (McDaniels is a free agent because he was picked in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft).

We don't have the assets to get either Embid or Noel unless we give up a combination of:
our 2015 pick+Olynyk+Clippers pick or
our 2015 pick+Clippers pick+Brooklyn pick

at the very least.
They wouldn't even trade Noel or Embid for Marcus Smart straight up, they'd ask for our 2015 pick as well.

The most viable assets that we have to lure Hinkie are the Brooklyn picks because they have potential to be good if Lopez is injured next year and MAYBE we'd convince them to give us Noel  for two Brooklyn picks. We'd have to be very lucky to get Noel for just those picks though.

There's a massive difference between him giving up MCW and giving up Noel- he's not an idiot.

[tazzmaniac]

Hinkie is crazy.  He does not like how his draft pick look one day and then will trade them next.

What did he really get out of trading MCW, KJ Mcdaniel?

He gets one of Okafor or Towns , one of Noel or Embiid could be out. Celtics have what Hinkie wants. Picks

He traded MCW because he's a an over rated ball hog who was abysmal statistically. He didn't want him on the team long term so he traded him.

He traded KJ McDaniels before he walked in free agency next year. (McDaniels is a free agent because he was picked in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft).

We don't have the assets to get either Embid or Noel unless we give up a combination of:
our 2015 pick+Olynyk+Clippers pick or
our 2015 pick+Clippers pick+Brooklyn pick

at the very least.
They wouldn't even trade Noel or Embid for Marcus Smart straight up, they'd ask for our 2015 pick as well.

The most viable assets that we have to lure Hinkie are the Brooklyn picks because they have potential to be good if Lopez is injured next year and MAYBE we'd convince them to give us Noel  for two Brooklyn picks. We'd have to be very lucky to get Noel for just those picks though.

There's a massive difference between him giving up MCW and giving up Noel- he's not an idiot.

He didn't just give up MCW.  He got a very good Lakers pick that will either end up as a 6th pick this year or most likely a top 10 pick next year.  At least so far, MCW continues to show his inefficiencies after the trade and the Bucks offensive performance has dropped significantly.  Hinkie is every bit the shrewd trader that Ainge is.   

[jpotter33]

Hinkie is crazy.  He does not like how his draft pick look one day and then will trade them next.

What did he really get out of trading MCW, KJ Mcdaniel?

He gets one of Okafor or Towns , one of Noel or Embiid could be out. Celtics have what Hinkie wants. Picks

He traded MCW because he's a an over rated ball hog who was abysmal statistically. He didn't want him on the team long term so he traded him.

He traded KJ McDaniels before he walked in free agency next year. (McDaniels is a free agent because he was picked in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft).

We don't have the assets to get either Embid or Noel unless we give up a combination of:
our 2015 pick+Olynyk+Clippers pick or
our 2015 pick+Clippers pick+Brooklyn pick

at the very least.
They wouldn't even trade Noel or Embid for Marcus Smart straight up, they'd ask for our 2015 pick as well.

The most viable assets that we have to lure Hinkie are the Brooklyn picks because they have potential to be good if Lopez is injured next year and MAYBE we'd convince them to give us Noel  for two Brooklyn picks. We'd have to be very lucky to get Noel for just those picks though.

There's a massive difference between him giving up MCW and giving up Noel- he's not an idiot.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. And it'd probably work out really well for both sides if Embiid ends up staying healthy. KO could be a really good complement to him.

[chambers]

Hinkie is crazy.  He does not like how his draft pick look one day and then will trade them next.

What did he really get out of trading MCW, KJ Mcdaniel?

He gets one of Okafor or Towns , one of Noel or Embiid could be out. Celtics have what Hinkie wants. Picks

He traded MCW because he's a an over rated ball hog who was abysmal statistically. He didn't want him on the team long term so he traded him.

He traded KJ McDaniels before he walked in free agency next year. (McDaniels is a free agent because he was picked in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft).

We don't have the assets to get either Embid or Noel unless we give up a combination of:
our 2015 pick+Olynyk+Clippers pick or
our 2015 pick+Clippers pick+Brooklyn pick

at the very least.
They wouldn't even trade Noel or Embid for Marcus Smart straight up, they'd ask for our 2015 pick as well.

The most viable assets that we have to lure Hinkie are the Brooklyn picks because they have potential to be good if Lopez is injured next year and MAYBE we'd convince them to give us Noel  for two Brooklyn picks. We'd have to be very lucky to get Noel for just those picks though.

There's a massive difference between him giving up MCW and giving up Noel- he's not an idiot.

He didn't just give up MCW.  He got a very good Lakers pick that will either end up as a 6th pick this year or most likely a top 10 pick next year.  At least so far, MCW continues to show his inefficiencies after the trade and the Bucks offensive performance has dropped significantly.  Hinkie is every bit the shrewd trader that Ainge is.

Exactly. MCW wasn't part of the long term plans and Hink was patient and got what could be considered a very good return for a guy he doesn't want around.