Garnett Out For Entire Play-offs?!?

[BudweiserCeltic]

We've been playing without KG for a while now. So, if he can't play, then at least we have that going for us. It would be worse if he had been playing and recently got injured. Let's hope for Baby's and Powe's health to last through the playoffs.

[cordobes]

I don't think there was a misdiagnosis. If there was, it's not a big deal - bone spurs can be hard to detect. But more probably KG has that bone spur for years, but only now it's started affecting him.

I've said these multiple times and I'll repeat it again: it's very probable surgery wasn't an option.

A bone spur rubbing on a tendon in the knee can be a lot of things. The current information is extremely vague. What’s the size and type of the bone spur? Which tendon are we talking about? Is there any ossification going on?

Generally, when a tendon is affected, the procedure is to avoid surgery at all costs – because of the risks of weakening the tendon. The surgery itself is not necessarily complicated, but the healing can be. It’s basically the same of recovering from a ruptured tendon – if it’s the patellar (something that wouldn’t surprise me, as KG was clearly suffering from tendinitis, it would be the same process Antonio McDyess went through.

Anyway, generally you try the conservative treatment – rest, strengthening, massages, etc, and only as a last resource surgery is an option.

For now, all we can do is to wait and see – with the limited info available there’s no way one can speculate about the probability of a surgery (although it becomes more probable as the time passes). That’s basically what the doctors are doing as well, although they have more information than us – wait and see.

if its a bone spur on the tendon, they have to go in and remove it. Its not going to "heal up" its a calcium deposit. Its going to be right there, rubbing on the tendon, until it comes out.

based on the Celtics medical staffs long history of misdiagnosing injuries, i fail to see how It's logical to give them the benefit of the doubt.

but follow the press. either they lied to us for 2 months for no reason by saying it was a sprain, only to have a change of heart and have DA go public with the fact that its a spur for some reason 3 weeks ago, or they missed it initially and caught the spur 3 weeks ago.

No, they don't have to remove it. You don't need a bone spur to heal - people live their entire lifes with bone spurs without even noticing them. What you try to do is to reduce the pain and inflammation the bone spur is causing - and this assuming the bone spur is indeed the cause of the inflammation. That works with most of them.

I think it's difficult to speculate on what happened. Once KG didn't come back in 15 days or so, I knew something else was going on and they were lying. Now, if the medical staff failed, I think that's extremely hard to say. Perhaps, but I don't see reasons to believe that - and, more importantly, it didn't matter. 

[CeltiCpRide79]

I write about sports for a living, and this news was riveting as a working journalist and crippling as a diehard Celtic fan. A shamrock knight in training since birth shortly after Larry Legend’s draft, as a five year-old spectator I gawked as Bird took the Lake-show down, and in 1986 marveled as the Twin Towers of Houston fell too. After those other ones went sadly in New York, I had my heart broken on the free throw line with New Jersey on the ropes and Kobe waiting the first time around.

To be brief (which I will fail to be), remember that we play the Chicago Bulls for at least a week straight. Calm your spirit. Forget their good stretch without solid half court schemes, just mixed screen and roll sets with interchangeable and vaguely reliable talent. It is about us. Remember that Bird sat for the 18-game winning streak that the current team topped this year with five wins during that run against the teams grouped in the first two rounds with them. It was not all KG, and aside from Chicago, they have not changed that much. The fates defended our 40 home-win season and last year’s franchise third best 66-win trek. So Philly earned the right to dodge us, however feebly. Guys like Willis Reed and Kurt Shilling are Kevin Garnett’s measuring stick. The Ticket wants to approach Duncan and Shaq. He wants three. He will appear and play in pain if Boston loses one of the first two games, and give whatever he can, because KG knows there is not always a chance the next time around. Fifteen seasons will be quite a bit of total wear and tear by the 2010 playoffs on the South Carolinian’s metaphorical shoulders, forget his knees by that point. But he already helped us, even if he stays off the sideline for his gutter mouth and seething emotions to spare us technical fouls with Crawford probably on the East coast … Paranoia, sorry, a tangent, but look, KG taught Baby when he made the Massive Squealer cry and changed his religion. Davis has grown into a real boy now to back the reliable Show of Powe. He plays sick to his stomach, stitched up, whatever … Perk runs the paint. Miller flops. This is the playoffs, not a good trade move for guys who have never been there, never done much together, and just lost focus to the Raptors. Salmons, Deng, or any Bull out-play Pierce in this series, or Ray for that matter? No chance with KG down. They are ready for this.

The Bulls have a rookie head coach and John Salmons has been hot, but not that hot. Ben Gordon is more all-day than Ray Allen? That one is tough, but next question; Pierce is not the reigning Finals MVP? Rose is going to hose Rondo against crowds for Rajon in Boston and against city history and Jordan as a rookie? Brad Miller? C’mon. Perkins is a champion, friends. Davis and Powe’s season averages total to Garnett’s, and only the naïve would leave out the upward-trending output of points, rebounds, steals, free throw percentages and general level of play they have been on this year. They are both 20 point threats against the defensively deficient Bulls on any given night in the United Center or the Garden. The champs will rule title-less Tyrus Thomas and Joachimp Noah. Aaron Gray will not make the difference. If Tim Thomas has another big shot in him for his playoff career, so be it. I think the Big Baby can birth an Enfant Terrible to beat a shot clock down the stretch, and I know we have a couple other guys who don’t mind game-winners. I wanted Baby to save it for Staples and make his mark against the greatest team we could face, but alas, we need him now …

Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo will be a treat, yes, but Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng (will he even suit up? What steady rotation and experience can they rely on behind Vinny del Negro? Oh, the rookie coach/rookie point guard combo is fearsome … please) are not going to pull out better numbers or more clutch plays than Tony Allen, Eddie House, and Steph Marbury combined against home court advantage. Will the Bulls beat us in green again with T.A. as the swing monkey-wrench to spell the Truth and a host of different front court options new to Doc’s disposal since the mid-west funk stunk up Saint Pat’s?

Keep faith for a series and then worry about how you feel concerning KG. If Orlando’s injuries lead to a stumble, or even if we face them in the second round, it will add anywhere from two weeks to a month more for Garnett’s knee to sort out before a real contender stands up. The Magic have a vague shot before the Cavs, but this could be a sly move by a team not above subterfuge in franchise history. The real smokescreen is we don’t need Garnett to beat the Bulls, Sixers or Magic on the road to unbalance a series entirely. And if the three units of Celtic Pride cannot win away from home, will they really lose to one of those teams in the Garden during the playoff frenzy? Are we going to drop one on the parquet against that kind of opposition with the other starting four in tact and the best bench in the league? Red Auerbach punched the Saint Louis Hawks’ coach in the mouth when he tried to get too slick with the officials through manipulative comments in the press. Nut shots for Verajao when KG comes back, anyone? The Red Auerbach award winner this year will be a bit of a bigger factor than the Mikki Moore fouls on Thomas and Hinrich in some weird rotation Chicago dreams up with a four point lead at home in game four, desperately seeking a win. If we pulled out the potpourri of victories in the regular season that I witnessed over the last two weeks to lock up the two seed, got healthy and gained experience, I’ll take us in two seven-game series against anybody on our half of the conference chart. Without KG. With KG I would take us to drop three games or less between the two series, but if one gets hairy on the way to lake Eerie, let it be. Stay positive team. Ubuntu.

And as a final not to KG, stay vigilant in the locker room. Watch the games, spot the trends and keep the team aware of their mistakes and where they can exploit Chicago’s weaknesses on each night. I would guess you do that, but don’t let this move to sit you with the pain get you down. Throw that poodle King Garnett … and welcome to the jungle Chicago. Enjoy your stay through Tuesday.

[celticinorlando]

salmons has a pretty bad groin injury and Del Negro said he will play but is in a lot of pain also

[daveh51292]

"The Lawrence Eagle-Tribune reported that surgery had been considered, but Garnett decided against it, believing he might not recover in time for the postseason." (Boston Globe).

[Vermont Green]

the ^twin tweeners`` tm.   at PF

I love it, that is perfect.

We will go as far as the twin Tweeners take us.

[crownsy]

I don't think there was a misdiagnosis. If there was, it's not a big deal - bone spurs can be hard to detect. But more probably KG has that bone spur for years, but only now it's started affecting him.

I've said these multiple times and I'll repeat it again: it's very probable surgery wasn't an option.

A bone spur rubbing on a tendon in the knee can be a lot of things. The current information is extremely vague. What’s the size and type of the bone spur? Which tendon are we talking about? Is there any ossification going on?

Generally, when a tendon is affected, the procedure is to avoid surgery at all costs – because of the risks of weakening the tendon. The surgery itself is not necessarily complicated, but the healing can be. It’s basically the same of recovering from a ruptured tendon – if it’s the patellar (something that wouldn’t surprise me, as KG was clearly suffering from tendinitis, it would be the same process Antonio McDyess went through.

Anyway, generally you try the conservative treatment – rest, strengthening, massages, etc, and only as a last resource surgery is an option.

For now, all we can do is to wait and see – with the limited info available there’s no way one can speculate about the probability of a surgery (although it becomes more probable as the time passes). That’s basically what the doctors are doing as well, although they have more information than us – wait and see.

if its a bone spur on the tendon, they have to go in and remove it. Its not going to "heal up" its a calcium deposit. Its going to be right there, rubbing on the tendon, until it comes out.

based on the Celtics medical staffs long history of misdiagnosing injuries, i fail to see how It's logical to give them the benefit of the doubt.

but follow the press. either they lied to us for 2 months for no reason by saying it was a sprain, only to have a change of heart and have DA go public with the fact that its a spur for some reason 3 weeks ago, or they missed it initially and caught the spur 3 weeks ago.

No, they don't have to remove it. You don't need a bone spur to heal - people live their entire lifes with bone spurs without even noticing them. What you try to do is to reduce the pain and inflammation the bone spur is causing - and this assuming the bone spur is indeed the cause of the inflammation. That works with most of them.

I think it's difficult to speculate on what happened. Once KG didn't come back in 15 days or so, I knew something else was going on and they were lying. Now, if the medical staff failed, I think that's extremely hard to say. Perhaps, but I don't see reasons to believe that - and, more importantly, it didn't matter. 

what reason do you have to not believe that given the misdiagnosis eddie's crew has had in the past?

[bruinsandceltics]

I don't think there was a misdiagnosis. If there was, it's not a big deal - bone spurs can be hard to detect. But more probably KG has that bone spur for years, but only now it's started affecting him.

I've said these multiple times and I'll repeat it again: it's very probable surgery wasn't an option.

A bone spur rubbing on a tendon in the knee can be a lot of things. The current information is extremely vague. What’s the size and type of the bone spur? Which tendon are we talking about? Is there any ossification going on?

Generally, when a tendon is affected, the procedure is to avoid surgery at all costs – because of the risks of weakening the tendon. The surgery itself is not necessarily complicated, but the healing can be. It’s basically the same of recovering from a ruptured tendon – if it’s the patellar (something that wouldn’t surprise me, as KG was clearly suffering from tendinitis, it would be the same process Antonio McDyess went through.

Anyway, generally you try the conservative treatment – rest, strengthening, massages, etc, and only as a last resource surgery is an option.

For now, all we can do is to wait and see – with the limited info available there’s no way one can speculate about the probability of a surgery (although it becomes more probable as the time passes). That’s basically what the doctors are doing as well, although they have more information than us – wait and see.

if its a bone spur on the tendon, they have to go in and remove it. Its not going to "heal up" its a calcium deposit. Its going to be right there, rubbing on the tendon, until it comes out.

based on the Celtics medical staffs long history of misdiagnosing injuries, i fail to see how It's logical to give them the benefit of the doubt.

but follow the press. either they lied to us for 2 months for no reason by saying it was a sprain, only to have a change of heart and have DA go public with the fact that its a spur for some reason 3 weeks ago, or they missed it initially and caught the spur 3 weeks ago.

No, they don't have to remove it. You don't need a bone spur to heal - people live their entire lifes with bone spurs without even noticing them. What you try to do is to reduce the pain and inflammation the bone spur is causing - and this assuming the bone spur is indeed the cause of the inflammation. That works with most of them.

I think it's difficult to speculate on what happened. Once KG didn't come back in 15 days or so, I knew something else was going on and they were lying. Now, if the medical staff failed, I think that's extremely hard to say. Perhaps, but I don't see reasons to believe that - and, more importantly, it didn't matter. 

what reason do you have to not believe that given the misdiagnosis eddie's crew has had in the past?

So because they made one mistake in the past (Raef) every other diagnosises are going to be wrong? Eddie and his crew are human and humans are not perfect.

I don't think they misdiagnosed KG, they just mislead us about it.

[Gruntled]

I'm pretty sure the Celtics have known for a while that Garnett will not play in the playoffs.  I know it's cynical, but at the game last night several of us were talking about how as soon as the playoff schedule is announced the Celtics will announce that KG is out for the playoffs.

The reason we were talking about this was an email the Celtics sent out last Friday.  It was about playoffs and next season's tickets, and it reminded season ticket holders that once a deposit was put in, there could be no refunds or cancellations (It even said this in bold letters.)

Between last year and this, I have trouble believing that the Celitcs suddenly have been hit by a rash of cancelations, so it seemed like something was about to happen that would cause people to want to cancel playoff tickets or next years season tickets.

The theory being tossed around at the game was that they have known Garnett was out for the playoffs since they sat him down the second time, and that they have been dragging this out to make sure they sold as many tickets as possible.  I hope this is not the case, but it sure looks like it.  I love the team they have built, but they could be a little more honest about what is going on.

Here's hoping that Garnett gets well soon.

[celticinorlando]

offseason surgery now slated for KG...remove bone spur and the tendon is not healing as quick as anticipated

[cordobes]

I don't think there was a misdiagnosis. If there was, it's not a big deal - bone spurs can be hard to detect. But more probably KG has that bone spur for years, but only now it's started affecting him.

I've said these multiple times and I'll repeat it again: it's very probable surgery wasn't an option.

A bone spur rubbing on a tendon in the knee can be a lot of things. The current information is extremely vague. What’s the size and type of the bone spur? Which tendon are we talking about? Is there any ossification going on?

Generally, when a tendon is affected, the procedure is to avoid surgery at all costs – because of the risks of weakening the tendon. The surgery itself is not necessarily complicated, but the healing can be. It’s basically the same of recovering from a ruptured tendon – if it’s the patellar (something that wouldn’t surprise me, as KG was clearly suffering from tendinitis, it would be the same process Antonio McDyess went through.

Anyway, generally you try the conservative treatment – rest, strengthening, massages, etc, and only as a last resource surgery is an option.

For now, all we can do is to wait and see – with the limited info available there’s no way one can speculate about the probability of a surgery (although it becomes more probable as the time passes). That’s basically what the doctors are doing as well, although they have more information than us – wait and see.

if its a bone spur on the tendon, they have to go in and remove it. Its not going to "heal up" its a calcium deposit. Its going to be right there, rubbing on the tendon, until it comes out.

based on the Celtics medical staffs long history of misdiagnosing injuries, i fail to see how It's logical to give them the benefit of the doubt.

but follow the press. either they lied to us for 2 months for no reason by saying it was a sprain, only to have a change of heart and have DA go public with the fact that its a spur for some reason 3 weeks ago, or they missed it initially and caught the spur 3 weeks ago.

No, they don't have to remove it. You don't need a bone spur to heal - people live their entire lifes with bone spurs without even noticing them. What you try to do is to reduce the pain and inflammation the bone spur is causing - and this assuming the bone spur is indeed the cause of the inflammation. That works with most of them.

I think it's difficult to speculate on what happened. Once KG didn't come back in 15 days or so, I knew something else was going on and they were lying. Now, if the medical staff failed, I think that's extremely hard to say. Perhaps, but I don't see reasons to believe that - and, more importantly, it didn't matter. 

what reason do you have to not believe that given the misdiagnosis eddie's crew has had in the past?

Because with the available info I can't really think of a misdiagnosis they may have committed - maybe they failed to detect the spur in the 1st MRI; but even that scenario would be natural, as they weren't looking for it. Or maybe they know about the bone spur since the day KG joined the C's. We still don't know exactly what's happening. Perhaps the bone spur actually broke off and became lodged in the joint. I don't know - and that's what makes so hard to assume any kind of misdiagnosis.

I'm absolutely certain they didn't miss that the tendon was stuck in a chronic inflammatory state. With our without a bone spur being the cause for the inflammation, the therapeutic procedure taken, was the proper and prudent one. So, I really don't see the importance of an hypothetical misdiagnosis. That they knew the tendon wasn't healing, or that tissue from the tendon was damaged, or that there's ossification going on and didn't tell it for political/economic reasons is something extremely more probable than a medical misdiagnosis.

[cordobes]

3 years ago Ray Allen had surgery to remove a bone spur on his ankle. However, he tried to play through it for the entire season. Sometimes the inflammation was under control, sometimes it wasn't. Only when the pain became too much and the inflammation too persistent they opted for the surgery.

Mike Dunleavy Jr. had surgery just a couple of weeks ago - exactly to a bone spur on his knee - and will now be out until January 2010 (best case scenario). He only played like 15 games this season and he had the injury since the training camp (he actually missed some pre-season games due to it). So, why hasn't Dunleavy had surgery by the start of the season - that way he'd be ready to play at least during this Summer? Was that a misdiagnosis from the Pacers doctors as well?

[gar]

I think crownsy's take is the most likely scenario of what occurred here but then that begs this question to be answered, how the hell did the doctors not examine his knee so thoroughly they they misdiagnosed a bone spur for a sprain? The man gets paid $22 million a year and is the heart and soul of this team. An MRI, an x-ray, a CAT scan, and any other freaking picture they could have taken should have been dome immediately and found out what the problem was from the beginning.

I have some concerns about the medical staff, too.  Did they properly diagnose the injury?  Was there anything that could have been done to have KG ready for the playoffs?  Did they advise him that by foregoing surgery, he would likely be out for the entire playoffs?

I know it's hard to predict recovery times, but from what Doc is suggesting, this injury is going to take several months to heal.  If that's the case, I can't see KG electing a non-surgical option if surgery would have had him ready for the playoffs.

I know people want to defend the organization, but the team misdiagnosed Big Al, somehow missing bone chips in his ankle even as he repeatedly complained about persistent pain.  They rushed Wally back from repeated ankle injuries, to the point where he had to be shut down for essentially a season.  There are plenty of other examples, too.  Maybe I'm simply a skeptic, but I don't have 100% confidence that the medical staff is doing its job as well as it could.

Not to mention bringing him back too soon when he obviously was not ready.

[Ed Teach]

Maybe we can trade Tony Allen for the Sun's medical staff.

[Roy Hobbs]

The Globe ran the diagnosis by two orthopedic surgeons, and they weren't buying the strained tendon theory:

[Dr. Nicholas DiNubile, an orthopedic surgeon who previously was team orthopedist for the Philadelphia 76ers] said Garnett's symptoms and the projected length of his recovery do not seem consistent with the diagnosis. . . . [A]nother orthopedic specialist speculated that the star player may be suffering from something more severe: damaged cartilage, perhaps, or a floating chip that might be lodged in a recess of the tendon.

"I'd say it's not likely" that it's a damaged popliteus tendon, said Dr. Riley Williams, the New Jersey Nets' team physician and an orthopedic surgeon at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York. "It's such an unusual diagnosis. It seldom occurs in isolation."

DiNubile theorized that high-tech medical scans may be failing to identify the true source of the damage.

"He's probably having a meniscus tear they're probably not seeing," DiNubile said, referring to the cartilage that acts like a shock absorber in the knee. "I can tell you it's not a strained tendon. A strained tendon would not give you the swelling and the ongoing symptoms. That's not a strained popliteus tendon."