CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Red Sox / MLB => Topic started by: PhoSita on October 07, 2016, 05:43:32 PM
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This thread obviously won't be relevant for very long.
So much for how dangerous the Sox were gonna be in the post-season!
Turns out you need to have starting pitchers that can give you a quality start in the playoffs. The Sox have exactly none.
Porcello and Price are way too prone to getting rocked by homers. They are mentally weak. Buccholz can't be relied upon for anything. Who else do the Sox have to actually start a game?
All the hitting is really fun. The Sox lineup is stacked. But it'd be nice if they had even one starting pitcher who actually scares the opponent. Too bad, it's looking like Ortiz's last playoff run will be a short one.
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Correct on all counts. I'll add a couple things:
1) The offense was less potent in the second half of the season, and has been mostly terrible the last couple of weeks, especially Ortiz, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley—four of their most important hitters.
2) E-Rod might be able to pull off a good start, but yeah, having Porcello and Price turn into pumpkins is the death knell.
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Yeah, this is some awesome stuff.
Last night was totally inexcusable. The offense blew some golden opportunities and the three homers in the third inning was ridiculous.
I don't totally blame Price for this game, so far. The first two hits of the 2nd were junk (dribbler and blooper) and before you knew it, the worst home run ever was hit and made the game 4-0. Even as I write this, Bogaerts just had one go off his glove. I am not really a Price apologist, but our killer offense came out ready to do absolutely nothing.
It isn't over 'til it's over, but gonna be hard to come back from 2-0 in a best of five. Bummer since they ended the season so well.
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Correct on all counts. I'll add a couple things:
1) The offense was less potent in the second half of the season, and has been mostly terrible the last couple of weeks, especially Ortiz, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley—four of their most important hitters.
2) E-Rod might be able to pull off a good start, but yeah, having Porcello and Price turn into pumpkins is the death knell.
First half of the season Steven Wright sure would be nice right about now. But I guess I would have said that same thing about full season Porcello and 2nd half of the season Price. Oh well, the future does look bright; we just need a Papi replacement...hmmm...
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Yea they look like Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. again right now, this series could be over quickly. Price is the biggest big game choker I've seen. :'(
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WOW now they just pulled Price after 3 1/3! :blank:
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1) The offense was less potent in the second half of the season, and has been mostly terrible the last couple of weeks, especially Ortiz, Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley—four of their most important hitters.
I really like Betts, Bogaerts, and Bradley -- I'm excited for the future of the Sox with those guys in place.
Still, when I think of teams that do well in the post-season it seems like they tend to have a lot of veteran hitters who can grind out at-bats and make plays at key moments.
The Sox have Pedroia, Ortiz, Ramirez, and Leon, but I wonder if perhaps relying on so many youngs guys throughout the lineup is a problem for consistent run production when the games get tight and the pressure goes up.
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it would be funny if a sweep let to ortiz saying he didn't want to retire
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Yea they look like **** again right now, this series could be over quickly. Price is the biggest big game choker I've seen. :'(
Between Porcello being hammered yesterday and the offense being three-hit through 8 innings today, there's enough blame to go around for everyone.
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Pathetic post-season showing for the Sox. They failed to give Ortiz the kind of send-off he deserved. No World Series, fine, but win a game at home, huh?
Not sure what there is to do with the franchise anymore. They can put together the talent but aside from a spirited, bearded run in 2013, there's not much I trust them to do right year to year. GMs and managers come and go, young talent in, pitching talent in, and out, and it seems to be pretty much the same.
Great career, Big Papi. One of the best ever. We won't see his like again.
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It was a great year, they just went cold at the wrong time. It happens.
In hindsight, the Big Papi celebration tour probably was a distraction at the end of the year.
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It was a great year, they just went cold at the wrong time. It happens.
In hindsight, the Big Papi celebration tour probably was a distraction at the end of the year.
Yup
At least they showed a little life at the end of this one.
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Sad stuff watching Ortiz go out like that. So important to the history of the Red Sox. Completely rewrote history in Boston.
Unbelievable hitter. To see what he meant to the Red Sox players was unbelievable.
Betts Boegarts Benintendi Bradley Jr. Pedroia Ramirez perhaps Encarnacion Price Porcello Rodriguez Wright etc the team should be loaded next year. Wouldnt be surprised to see Farrell fired. It should also be interesting to see if Moncada can steal 3rd base or if sandoval can mount a comeback.
Bright future for this team.
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Sad stuff watching Ortiz go out like that. So important to the history of the Red Sox. Completely rewrote history in Boston.
Unbelievable hitter. To see what he meant to the Red Sox players was unbelievable.
Betts Boegarts Benintendi Bradley Jr. Pedroia Ramirez perhaps Encarnacion Price Porcello Rodriguez Wright etc the team should be loaded next year. Wouldnt be surprised to see Farrell fired. It should also be interesting to see if Moncada can steal 3rd base or if sandoval can mount a comeback.
Bright future for this team.
We need a clutch starting pitcher. Our starters gave up 12 ER in 11.2 IP. Not going to win any series with those numbers.
I found it peculiar that Farrell would put the season in Buchholz's hands tonight. I'd rather go down swinging with Rodriguez than choke my way out of the playoffs with Buch. That's not to say Buch was horrible - but there's a reason he got the quick hook. Way too much of a pattern of gagging.
IMO the team had a better vibe with Lovullo as interim manager, and that was with lesser talent. I won't be surprised if the Sox cut ties with Farrell, they kept Lovullo around for a reason, and it wasn't just because of Farrell's health.
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It was a great year, they just went cold at the wrong time. It happens.
In hindsight, the Big Papi celebration tour probably was a distraction at the end of the year.
I agree about the Papi thing. At no point was it more apparent than in the 8th inning when Papi was at second, do you pinch-run for the guy in potentially his last game? The announcers said something about it, and you know it had to be running through players' minds to some extent.
Not the best time for that sort of second-guessing.
Amazing career, bummer of a finish.
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Loved this moment, one of the few from the series.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/T32ETXBRTY2OI/giphy.gif)
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The hottest teams going in win it. Redsox stumbled in of course this is the result. Baseball is so much about momentum.
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Fire Farrell
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Plenty of room left on the Cubs bandwagon, Redz.
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Fire Farrell
Nah, Dombrowski said that he'll be back and that "in-game management is not as important". I mean, fabulous in-game management only cost us one of our best pitchers for half a season. And perhaps a handful of games (hence HCA). No biggie. This franchise is a train wreck.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
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Totally lame showing by the Sox in that series. Horrible end to Ortiz's career. I guess the experience (and the disappointment) will help the young guys in the long run, but it's too bad they mostly couldn't come through in this series. Hopefully the Sox can get a big bopper like Encarnacion to replace Ortiz, but even then they'd still need better production from 3B and LF (though Benintendi seems like he'll fare well). C could use more offense too, but I guess that would be a bonus.
Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
The rotation looks like it'll suffice for the regular season, but I don't think it'll cut it in the postseason (if they make it that far). Price could go 30-0 with a 0.00 ERA next season and it won't matter unless he finally shows up for the playoffs. Ditto for Porcello. E-Rod was inconsistent this season, and we all know how bad Buchholz can be (and usually is). Pomeranz apparently can't hack the number of innings required of a starter, which I guess is okay if he can be a reliable reliever. Then again, the Sox gave up a great starting prospect for him, so maybe that's a loss. Wright did just about everything right this season—but here's to hoping Farrell learned his lesson about using pitchers as pinch runners.
Edit: I hate the Cubs. They have some former Sox I like, but I can't stand trendy, and everyone's in love with the Cubs right now, so I hope they crumble like a sandcastle at high tide.
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Edit: I hate the Cubs. They have some former Sox I like, but I can't stand trendy, and everyone's in love with the Cubs right now, so I hope they crumble like a sandcastle at high tide.
Keep hoping then. I think this is their year. Their offense should have a better showing in the NLCS than it did in the NLDS and their starting pitching is lined up perfectly.
CLE/CHI World Series would be pretty cool given the fanbases and the championship droughts. Plus you'd have Tito v. Theo which is one heckuva story line.
Last night was one of those special nights that you tend to see teams of destiny have to.
Would love to see Ross go off on top too. One of the nicest guys in baseball.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
Also, the 180 that Lackey did.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
Also, the 180 that Lackey did.
Lackey pitched injured, that's something that can be objectively remedied. I'm not sure there's such a fix for Price's tendency to fold in big games.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
Also, the 180 that Lackey did.
Lackey pitched injured, that's something that can be objectively remedied. I'm not sure there's such a fix for Price's tendency to fold in big games.
I guess there are two issues - regular season Price, which I think will be fixed and post-season Price - we'll have to see. Post season Kershaw is not such a great pitcher either.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
Also, the 180 that Lackey did.
Lackey pitched injured, that's something that can be objectively remedied. I'm not sure there's such a fix for Price's tendency to fold in big games.
He wasn't injured in year 1; 2010 Pitched 215IP and went 14-11 with a 4.40 ERA
From what I remember, the injury stuff came up early in 2011. He just underwhelmed his first year in Boston.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
I mean the Red Sox did lose 2 of the games by a run and I believe in both the games they had the tying and/or go ahead run aboard in the 8th and 9th innings. They didn't get any of the breaks in those series but 2 base hits there and they could be still playing up 2-1.
Don't get me wrong I was incredibly disappointed and a sweep is a sweep, but I wouldn't say we didn't belong on the field against the Indians. We were 2 pretty evenly matched teams throughout the season and in the playoffs.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
I mean the Red Sox did lose 2 of the games by a run and I believe in both the games they had the tying and/or go ahead run aboard in the 8th and 9th innings. They didn't get any of the breaks in those series but 2 base hits there and they could be still playing up 2-1.
Don't get me wrong I was incredibly disappointed and a sweep is a sweep, but I wouldn't say we didn't belong on the field against the Indians. We were 2 pretty evenly matched teams throughout the season and in the playoffs.
They didn't have a standout performance from a single player, that I can think of. Benintendi, I guess?
You're right that it's not as though they were blown out in three straight games. At the same time, their calling card was supposed to be offense and they didn't have a single inning where they scored more than a run, and in one game they were held scoreless. On the other side of things, none of their three starting pitchers had a good game. The bullpen didn't exactly blow anybody away, either.
To me, the Red Sox "lost in all phases of the game," to borrow a phrase from Belichick. That's why I say they didn't belong.
It's such a small sample size, though. The MLB regular season is far too long, and the playoffs are much too short. I'd much rather the MLB season end after 120 games or so, and they make the playoff format a full four-round, 16 team tournament, like the NBA playoffs.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
Including the postseason, the Giants blew 32 out of 75 save opportunities. That is incredible for a playoff team.
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Price says he'll make Sox fans fall in love with him—good luck with that, David. A good place to start would be not allowing one or two homers every start.
I wouldn't count him out. There is something about a player's first season in Boston. Look at Porcello and Hanley, as the latest. Price will stop putting so much pressure on himself and do just fine next year.
Also, the 180 that Lackey did.
Lackey pitched injured, that's something that can be objectively remedied. I'm not sure there's such a fix for Price's tendency to fold in big games.
He wasn't injured in year 1; 2010 Pitched 215IP and went 14-11 with a 4.40 ERA
From what I remember, the injury stuff came up early in 2011. He just underwhelmed his first year in Boston.
While 2011 was below average for Lackey, I don't think the dropoff was as big as it was with Price -- whose ERA in the last three years was 2.6, 3.3, and 2.5.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
I mean the Red Sox did lose 2 of the games by a run and I believe in both the games they had the tying and/or go ahead run aboard in the 8th and 9th innings. They didn't get any of the breaks in those series but 2 base hits there and they could be still playing up 2-1.
Don't get me wrong I was incredibly disappointed and a sweep is a sweep, but I wouldn't say we didn't belong on the field against the Indians. We were 2 pretty evenly matched teams throughout the season and in the playoffs.
They didn't have a standout performance from a single player, that I can think of. Benintendi, I guess?
You're right that it's not as though they were blown out in three straight games. At the same time, their calling card was supposed to be offense and they didn't have a single inning where they scored more than a run, and in one game they were held scoreless. On the other side of things, none of their three starting pitchers had a good game. The bullpen didn't exactly blow anybody away, either.
To me, the Red Sox "lost in all phases of the game," to borrow a phrase from Belichick. That's why I say they didn't belong.
It's such a small sample size, though. The MLB regular season is far too long, and the playoffs are much too short. I'd much rather the MLB season end after 120 games or so, and they make the playoff format a full four-round, 16 team tournament, like the NBA playoffs.
I agree. The current playoff setup makes no sense. You cant play 162 games and then be eliminated in 1 game. That is madness. Would like the regular season shortened also, but will never happen because of traditions and history.
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Anyone catch catch the cubs last night?
Yeah, it was really disappointing to see the Giants blow that game. But their fatal flaw all season was their bullpen.
At least the Giants won a couple games in the playoffs. They had one glaring flaw but were competitive otherwise.
The Sox simply got crushed. They didn't belong.
I mean the Red Sox did lose 2 of the games by a run and I believe in both the games they had the tying and/or go ahead run aboard in the 8th and 9th innings. They didn't get any of the breaks in those series but 2 base hits there and they could be still playing up 2-1.
Don't get me wrong I was incredibly disappointed and a sweep is a sweep, but I wouldn't say we didn't belong on the field against the Indians. We were 2 pretty evenly matched teams throughout the season and in the playoffs.
They didn't have a standout performance from a single player, that I can think of. Benintendi, I guess?
You're right that it's not as though they were blown out in three straight games. At the same time, their calling card was supposed to be offense and they didn't have a single inning where they scored more than a run, and in one game they were held scoreless. On the other side of things, none of their three starting pitchers had a good game. The bullpen didn't exactly blow anybody away, either.
To me, the Red Sox "lost in all phases of the game," to borrow a phrase from Belichick. That's why I say they didn't belong.
It's such a small sample size, though. The MLB regular season is far too long, and the playoffs are much too short. I'd much rather the MLB season end after 120 games or so, and they make the playoff format a full four-round, 16 team tournament, like the NBA playoffs.
I agree. The current playoff setup makes no sense. You cant play 162 games and then be eliminated in 1 game. That is madness. Would like the regular season shortened also, but will never happen because of traditions and history.
Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
Yeah, I get Don's point and it is much better than it used to be (no divisional series'), but I would love more playoff baseball - with all 7-game series'. 120 games would be great, but they could easily do 140 games and still fit all games in with a few extra off-days on the side.
The added bonus would be that the Sox would always make the playoffs (or almost always) since there is still no salary cap and they can just outspend their opponents. I say this in a partially serious manner as I really would prefer a salary cap in baseball, even if it would hurt my fave team.
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
You don't need half the league in the playoffs when the regular season is 6 months long. Those things are more money grabs by the leagues than anything else. Also, baseball is a bit of a different animal given the dynamic of the game (pitcher v. hitter) and the extreme added value of a strong starting pitching staff. The pitching should count for something and given that guys can only start every 4-5 days, there should be an incentive for a team that won its division to have that ace in hand to start a series.
Actually, quite a bit can happen in that 42 game stretch after game 120; teams can get super hot, teams can collapse. It's entertaining stuff. You don't need to shorten the regular season by 40 games. If you want to expand the wild card playoff to a best of three series, then extend the divisional series to 7 games, that's fine. Go back to 154.
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
You don't need half the league in the playoffs when the regular season is 6 months long. Those things are more money grabs by the leagues than anything else. Also, baseball is a bit of a different animal given the dynamic of the game (pitcher v. hitter) and the extreme added value of a strong starting pitching staff. The pitching should count for something and given that guys can only start every 4-5 days, there should be an incentive for a team that won its division to have that ace in hand to start a series.
Actually, quite a bit can happen in that 42 game stretch after game 120; teams can get super hot, teams can collapse. It's entertaining stuff. You don't need to shorten the regular season by 40 games. If you want to expand the wild card playoff to a best of three series, then extend the divisional series, that's fine. Go back to 154.
I just feel that after a while the regular season gets stale. Sure, you can see some hot and cold streaks in those last 42 games, and the standings can change.
But plenty of that will already happen over the first 120.
The playoffs are a new season and a different type of game, as we see each year in every sport. So why not have more of that?
I think the NBA does the playoffs better than any other league. The best team usually -- but not always -- wins in a best of 7, and the four round, 16 team setup means that virtually any team in any market with decent management and willing ownership can hope to field a team that plays meaningful games in front of a home court crowd in April and May.
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
I'd be down with a shorter regular season and a longer postseason. Baseball is the only major team sport where a player or team can run hot for weeks, then cold for weeks, then hot for weeks, then cold for weeks ... and it's still only halfway through the season. Nearly everyone has their good moments in a season that long; seems a shame that teams that perform well for the better part of six months get eliminated just because they hit a little slump at the eleventh hour.
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Conversely, if you can't win your division over a 162 game stretch, what should entitle your team to play more than one playoff game?
I see that point, but aren't the playoffs more exciting than the regular season? Why not have more playoffs?
What do you know about the teams after 160 games that you don't already know after 120? I really don't see the downside to having a couple more weeks of playoff baseball, other than that it breaks with "tradition," and the idea that it "waters down" the accomplishment of making the playoffs.
Personally, I'd rather actually watch my team play in the playoff, even if over half the league qualifies. Making the playoffs is cool, but the excitement of it is muted if it only lasts for a game or three.
You don't need half the league in the playoffs when the regular season is 6 months long. Those things are more money grabs by the leagues than anything else. Also, baseball is a bit of a different animal given the dynamic of the game (pitcher v. hitter) and the extreme added value of a strong starting pitching staff. The pitching should count for something and given that guys can only start every 4-5 days, there should be an incentive for a team that won its division to have that ace in hand to start a series.
Actually, quite a bit can happen in that 42 game stretch after game 120; teams can get super hot, teams can collapse. It's entertaining stuff. You don't need to shorten the regular season by 40 games. If you want to expand the wild card playoff to a best of three series, then extend the divisional series, that's fine. Go back to 154.
I just feel that after a while the regular season gets stale. Sure, you can see some hot and cold streaks in those last 42 games, and the standings can change.
But plenty of that will already happen over the first 120.
The playoffs are a new season and a different type of game, as we see each year in every sport. So why not have more of that?
I think the NBA does the playoffs better than any other league. The best team usually -- but not always -- wins in a best of 7, and the four round, 16 team setup means that virtually any team in any market with decent management and willing ownership can hope to field a team that plays meaningful games in front of a home court crowd in April and May.
This is sort of what I was getting at. In a sport where teams play nearly every day for 6 months, it's pretty clear by the end of month 4 which teams are the best. As it is now, you could be playing well for 95% of the time, but then hit a little rough patch at just the wrong time ... and gonzo. You won 90-100 games during the regular season, but then one bad day kills you.