JaJuan Johnson = Useless??

[WsAllDay]

JJJ seems like he's playing like a player who came out way to early, but the bad thing is he played 4 years in college and 1 year of nba practice, he's just not gonna fit with this team and the quicker we realize this the better.

[kp4000]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

[Chris]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

Forgive me if I am being naive, but what about their systems make them a better fit for him?

[kp4000]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

Forgive me if I am being naive, but what about their systems make them a better fit for him?

They're not going anywhere at this point. Maybe he can get more P/T on those young teams. Also he needs to add some weight to his body.

[Fafnir]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

Forgive me if I am being naive, but what about their systems make them a better fit for him?

Being able to throw minutes at players without concerns like winning? Other than that I'm not sure, the C's system is very friendly to pick and pop big men.

[Chris]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

Forgive me if I am being naive, but what about their systems make them a better fit for him?

They're not going anywhere at this point. Maybe he can get more P/T on those young teams. Also he needs to add some weight to his body.

By that rationale, why not just park him in Portland?  He can get plenty of P/T up there.

I actually think he would have trouble seeing the floor on those NBA teams, who have more talented young guys to be giving those minutes to.

[snively]

Here's hoping he picks up his defensive intensity and effectiveness - that's the only way he's got a chance at sticking in this league.

[JSD]

I like him. I think he has potential, but he doesn't fit well in Doc's system. I can see JaJuan thrive on a team like the Cavs, Raptors, or Kings.

Forgive me if I am being naive, but what about their systems make them a better fit for him?

They're not going anywhere at this point. Maybe he can get more P/T on those young teams. Also he needs to add some weight to his body.

By that rationale, why not just park him in Portland?  He can get plenty of P/T up there.

I actually think he would have trouble seeing the floor on those NBA teams, who have more talented young guys to be giving those minutes to.

Yeah, JJJ is best suited for a veteran squad that can utilize his skills to help him develop an NBA niche as a role player, the most he'll be in this league most likely.

[mmmmm]

I agree that JJJ can play the pick and role and is a decent help defender.  But when paying attention and actually watching you must have noticed that he can't guard his own man with the ball or without the ball, either because he is too weak or too slow or clueless.  

No, I had not noticed these things because they aren't really true.  Oh, certainly, like all these players, he loses his man once in a while.  But overall, he's above average at playing his man.

I don't know what JJ"s long-term future in the NBA will be, but I suspect he will be just fine.  There is a lot of blatant over-exageration on this thread.  'Useless'??  That's absurd.  'Clueless'?? Also absurd.

I seriously question whether some of the people bashing JJ and Smooge have even bothered watching any of these games.

The teams' +/- when JJ's been on the court has almost always been positive during this SL.   And most telling is how much better the defense is when he's on the floor.

Here is a fanpost which actually breaks down what happened when JJ was on the floor of this particular game.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/7/17/3165001/summer-league-celtics-vs-atlanta-were-jjj-etwuan-really-useless

In my experience, these are the kinds of things a coach should be looking at.

None of this means that JJ will be a star in this league or that he won't get traded away tomorrow for a bag of peanuts.  But just plain watching the game plainly and clearly puts the lie to most of the absurd exaggerations on this thread.

And just what JJJ has contributed skill wise during the strong runs seems to me to be little more than he is guy who can get out of the way and hit a wide open 15 footer when completely unguarded.  Quite honestly I can do that.

Why not expect something from him instead of apologizing for him, it's not just offensively that he doesn't look impressive, I don't see him hustling, working that hard or playing mistake free--he just looks slow, lost and overwhelmed most of the time.

see the above fanpost which breaks down "just what JJJ has contributed ..." during the key run in this last game.

As to your theory on bulky slower bigs I would argue that Perk, when with the Celts, with effort, hustle and determination contradicted your premise.  Sullinger looks so much more determined out there than JJJ?

Perk in no way contradicts my premise.  He directly supports it.  Perk succeeded best when paired with KG - a very mobile big man.  KG's ability to control large amounts of horizontal space hid Perk's slow feet and allowed Perk to concentrate on using his strength to push people out of post and otherwise play the vertical game of challenging shots at the rim.

[saltlover]

Remember how much we HATED Avery Bradley 1 year ago?

JJJ is probably going to be a 15 and 10 guy with all this hatred.

Bradley was 19 when he got drafted. Compare to JJJ who played all four years in the Big 10, which is a solid conference, the fact that he still couldn't figure out how to defend and play at the NBA player speaks very bad volumes.

"Figuring out" is different for forwards and guards.  Bradley gets to apply ball pressure and pretty much just sticks with his man, and occasionally swats at a ball from someone else who doesn't see him.  He's very very very good at it, but aside from improving technique to keep NBA players in front of him, he didn't have to learn much.

A 4/5 in this defense has to both guard a player near the basket AND play help defense protecting the rim.  It's a lot different, both physically and mentally, than what Johnson, or pretty much any other player, had to do in college.  He was a fine 1-on-1 defender against college power forwards (averaged more blocks per game than fouls.)  But in the NBA, the PF's use their body a lot more to create space, and while you're fighting for that position, you have to be aware of players cutting towards the basket.  It requires strength, timing, and vision, and it doesn't matter if you had four years of college or none, if you haven't seen it before.

Will he figure it out?  Unknown.  But it's a hard defense to learn, and we should keep this in mind if he does learn it, and also if Sully and/or Melo take a year to pick it up.

[nickagneta]

I guess the whole "we waited two years on Giddens, Walker, Bradley, and a bunch of other guys so we can wait to see what the second year brings for Johnson" philosophy applies here.

That said, Johnson has been severely unimpressive in both his play last year and his play this summer.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, 12 rebs for the young fella is still - 12 rebs.

Just Sayin.

Good Game, JJ.

Not Useless - at all.

[celticsleyte]

I would love to see what would happen with a lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Green, JJJ, KG. Talk about potential for easy fast break buckets and I expect this unit would really defend as well. 

[Galeto]

I would love to see what would happen with a lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Green, JJJ, KG. Talk about potential for easy fast break buckets and I expect this unit would really defend as well. 

The idea of easy fast buckets is overblown. You can possess all the extreme team speed you want but defenses are drilled to get back and stop fast breaks.  The NBA is not that easy.

With this lineup, the dominant feature would be jumpshots.  A lot of jumpshots and mostly of the 2 point variety.  There would be very few free throws.

I think defense would be a struggle. JJJ is too weak to defend 4s, Green hasn't defended SFs well in his career and Rondo just isn't committed enough on defense anymore to be a positive defender. Last season, the Celtics offense was 1.7 points worse on offense but 5 points better on defense in the 13 games Rondo missed. 

[Atzar]

I would love to see what would happen with a lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Green, JJJ, KG. Talk about potential for easy fast break buckets and I expect this unit would really defend as well.  

The idea of easy fast buckets is overblown. You can possess all the extreme team speed you want but defenses are drilled to get back and stop fast breaks.  The NBA is not that easy.

With this lineup, the dominant feature would be jumpshots.  A lot of jumpshots and mostly of the 2 point variety.  There would be very few free throws.

I think defense would be a struggle. JJJ is too weak to defend 4s, Green hasn't defended SFs well in his career and Rondo just isn't committed enough on defense anymore to be a positive defender. Last season, the Celtics offense was 1.7 points worse on offense but 5 points better on defense in the 13 games Rondo missed.  

Consider who was replacing Rondo in those games though.  Being worse than Avery Bradley and being a poor defender aren't the same thing.

As far as JJJ goes, it's not strength.  He's actually pretty strong.  Aside from the fact that he looks lost on defense, the issue is that he has a high center of gravity.  He has a very hard time establishing and maintaining position in the post because other players can get underneath him and root him out.  On offense, he also lacks the girth to be able to block them out with his butt like Sullinger does.  Unfortunately, that's not something that can really be fixed - you can overcome it to an extent with intelligence, core strength and pure tenacity (KG does this) but it's always going to be an obstacle for him.

That's why you hear Doc and Danny talk about using him at the 3.  As a small forward, he can win battles in the post with his length, and his high center of gravity is less of an issue.  If he shortens that release on his jumper, he could also shoot right over most 3's.  So if he's agile enough to defend the position, there's a lot to like there.  He has a long way to go, though.