Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[green_bballers13]

I don't get the love affair with Nurse at all.  He got lucky his first year had Kawhi and win a title and then got worse in Toronto.  Philly had their worst regular season since 2017 and their worst playoff appearance since Boston swept them in 2020 in Brown's last year.  Nurse is not a good coach.

Any thoughts on why Philly may have had a down year?  Any relevant factors?

Obviously I know Embiid missed more time than usual, but you still play to win the game.

They were on pace for 65 wins in games he played.  I don't see that as a coaching deficiency.

Nurse gets credit for being on pace for 65 wins at one point, but actually winning 47. Joe doesn't get credit for actually winning 64. What a fair and balanced take. 

Again, no one here is saying Joe is awesome, great, or even good. I think some are getting sick of Joe catching stray bullets every time something doesn't go the Celtics' way.

[Roy H.]

I don't get the love affair with Nurse at all.  He got lucky his first year had Kawhi and win a title and then got worse in Toronto.  Philly had their worst regular season since 2017 and their worst playoff appearance since Boston swept them in 2020 in Brown's last year.  Nurse is not a good coach.

Any thoughts on why Philly may have had a down year?  Any relevant factors?

Obviously I know Embiid missed more time than usual, but you still play to win the game.

They were on pace for 65 wins in games he played.  I don't see that as a coaching deficiency.

Nurse gets credit for being on pace for 65 wins at one point, but actually winning 47. Joe doesn't get credit for actually winning 64. What a fair and balanced take. 

Again, no one here is saying Joe is awesome, great, or even good. I think some are getting sick of Joe catching stray bullets every time something doesn't go the Celtics' way.

Joe didn't "catch stray bullets".  His poor game plan and lack of adjustments was why we lost Game 2.

That said...  you're saying that Joe isn't even good?  And you think nobody is saying that?

And, nobody is crediting Nurse solely for being on pace to win 65 games. Rather, that was posted to contradict Moranis' jab at Nurse that the Sixers didn't win as much this season.  Saying that while ignoring Embiid's injury is disingenuous at best.

[green_bballers13]

I don't get the love affair with Nurse at all.  He got lucky his first year had Kawhi and win a title and then got worse in Toronto.  Philly had their worst regular season since 2017 and their worst playoff appearance since Boston swept them in 2020 in Brown's last year.  Nurse is not a good coach.

Any thoughts on why Philly may have had a down year?  Any relevant factors?

Obviously I know Embiid missed more time than usual, but you still play to win the game.

They were on pace for 65 wins in games he played.  I don't see that as a coaching deficiency.

Nurse gets credit for being on pace for 65 wins at one point, but actually winning 47. Joe doesn't get credit for actually winning 64. What a fair and balanced take. 

Again, no one here is saying Joe is awesome, great, or even good. I think some are getting sick of Joe catching stray bullets every time something doesn't go the Celtics' way.

Joe didn't "catch stray bullets". His poor game plan and lack of adjustments was why we lost Game 2.

And, nobody is giving Nurse credit for being on pace to win 65 games. Rather, that was posted to contradict Moranis' jab at Nurse that the Sixers didn't win as much this season.  Saying that while ignoring Embiid's injury is disingenuous at best.

Disagree. Joe has been blamed for a lot this year (check out how many pages there are in this thread) despite the great results.

The Celtics lost game 2 because they gave up too many 3 pointers. Some want to blame that on the coach, and others want to blame that on the players. I'm sure others think it's a combo
 of the coach and the players.

Either way, they bounced back from that loss with a good win.

I think Joe is an average coach, and is not as important as the players playing the game. It's easier to blame the coach.

[bdm860]

I only brought up Nurse because right now he's not looking like a good coach to me. Who cares about the regular season, just like with Joe, we're judging by the playoffs.

Embiid is back and so Nurse is now coaching that 64-win pace team again, but he's down 3-1 to a team missing their All-NBA forward.

It doesn't appear to me Nurse has made any adjustments or changed his game plan at all this series.  He failed to call a timeout during a Game 2 collapse.

I think Nurse should absolutely be criticized for not going to Embiid in the 4th, and not properly staggering Embiid's minutes so he's not so gassed in the 4th.

Judging Nurse on this year's playoffs, to me, he's not looking like a good coach.

Judge him the same way we judge Joe.


New York's a good team, it's not like it's supposed to be a cake walk here, but if Nurse goes out in 5 (with an ineffective 4Q Embiid again), I'm judging.

[Moranis]

I don't get the love affair with Nurse at all.  He got lucky his first year had Kawhi and win a title and then got worse in Toronto.  Philly had their worst regular season since 2017 and their worst playoff appearance since Boston swept them in 2020 in Brown's last year.  Nurse is not a good coach.

Any thoughts on why Philly may have had a down year?  Any relevant factors?

Obviously I know Embiid missed more time than usual, but you still play to win the game.

They were on pace for 65 wins in games he played.  I don't see that as a coaching deficiency.

Nurse gets credit for being on pace for 65 wins at one point, but actually winning 47. Joe doesn't get credit for actually winning 64. What a fair and balanced take. 

Again, no one here is saying Joe is awesome, great, or even good. I think some are getting sick of Joe catching stray bullets every time something doesn't go the Celtics' way.

Joe didn't "catch stray bullets".  His poor game plan and lack of adjustments was why we lost Game 2.

That said...  you're saying that Joe isn't even good?  And you think nobody is saying that?

And, nobody is crediting Nurse solely for being on pace to win 65 games. Rather, that was posted to contradict Moranis' jab at Nurse that the Sixers didn't win as much this season.  Saying that while ignoring Embiid's injury is disingenuous at best.

Brown won at a 63 game pace with Embiid and so did Rivers.  Doesn't make them good coaches nor does it make Nurse one.  Nurse has simply not been impressive this year and the team is about to lose in 5 games with Embiid averaging 35/9/5.5/1.3/1.0

[green_bballers13]

The problem with the anti-Joe take is that he can only succeed if the Celtics win the championship. Anything less and his critics think they have won their argument.

[Roy H.]

The problem with the anti-Joe take is that he can only succeed if the Celtics win the championship. Anything less and his critics think they have won their argument.

Not really.  Most fans just don't want to see coaching like in Game 2.

[ozgod]

Wrong thread

[tenn_smoothie]

The problem with the anti-Joe take is that he can only succeed if the Celtics win the championship. Anything less and his critics think they have won their argument.

This current group of Celtics is overdue for a title, so for me anything less than that will be a failure.
If that happens, there will probably be blame to go around, but Joe wil deserve his share.
I'd go so far as to say if we win the title, it will be in spite of Mazzulla.

[Neurotic Guy]

WT

[Goldstar88]

So who gets credit for the change in strategy with the 3pt shooting the last two games? They attempted 37 today and 37 last game. Wonder if any of the reporters asked the players or the coach about it postgame… hmmm

[ozgod]

So who gets credit for the change in strategy with the 3pt shooting the last two games? They attempted 37 today and 37 last game. Wonder if any of the reporters asked the players or the coach about it postgame… hmmm

I will quote my answer to another question...and yes my answer is correct 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvwVc1JArjM

Joe Mazula offense in microscope

That rant is EXACTLY how I also feel watching this team.
The two superstars are dumb enough as it is. Add in a literally brain-dead coach and you have a huge cluster.
It's incomprehensible to me that players and coaches at this level are playing such bad basketball and seem oblivious to that fact.
If Brad is watching this and is not alarmed, then something is very wrong with our franchise.

The Celtics had the best offense in the NBA this year. Game 2 was terrible but can we please take a deep breath and have a memory that lasts longer than 2 days?

A long memory is the problem.  We all watched last year and are having flashbacks.

Which was said last year too (having flashbacks to the team with Udoka) and the year before that (to the team with Brad). Given that the problems that have plagued this team in the playoffs predate Mazzulla, it seems weird to blame him for them.

Last night, incidentally, was a masterclass in smart basketball. The Celtics shot under 30% from 3 and 71% from the line but were in control of the game from beginning to end, totally dominating. The players came out focused and weren't phased by not hitting shots. How much credit does Mazzulla get for everyone coming out with a game plan and staying focused?

None. Because it was the players that did it 

The reality is this is a results business...Joe will not get any credit for any good they do, and will take all the heat for all the bad they do, because that's just how it is, in any sport. That's why they're usually the fall guy when the team fails. It's not the players, or whoever constructed the team...in a way that's been one of the roles of the coach, to take bullets for player mistakes. Often they do this on purpose to take pressure off, other times it just falls on them, because they have command responsibility, and because fans tend to build more attachment to players who they can physically see doing good and bad things, and so we tend to give them more slack. We can only infer what coaches do, for all we know they do nothing that we can see, other than call timeouts, sub people in and out, and wave a clipboard around so it's easier to blame them.

This will continue until the Cs win a championship...till then Joe will be our pinata. We will call for his head when we lose and ignore him when we win, and I think the players and Joe are ok with that 

[ozgod]

The way this reads cracks me up, even if it likely wasn't his intent:

Jared Weiss: Derrick White on Joe Mazzulla winning coach of the month: “Staff’s been amazing. Joe’s been solid.”

Pure Freudian slip - he might not have intended it consciously, but he meant it.
One of our top BBIQ guys and his comment comes out very lukewarm, if you look at it honestly.
I have always thought there had to be at least a few of the players who see how incompetent Joe is.
Gotta think there are occasional, late nite, road-trip hotel conversations among select Celtics where our head coach is discussed.

Careful Tennessee, your biases are showing in your over-interpretation

What biases are those ?
I'm biased alright, my opinion of Joe Mazzulla is that he is an incompetent head coach in way over his head.

I’ve worked with people I thought were incompetent. Under no circumstances could you have gotten me to describe any of them as “solid” even if I was backed into a corner and had to say something positive.  But you may be right that it was purposely or subconsciously not as enthusiastic as his assessment of ‘the staff’.  There’s a distance between that and DW suggesting that Joe is incompetent.

I don't think White was trying to covertly communicate a message that he viewed Mazzulla as incompetent. What I am suggesting is that he got halfway thru his comment of praising the assistants and when including the head coach in his remarks, out came a lukewarm response that inadvertently reflected his true opinion. I'm not searching for clues that the players are turning on Joe - I want a title this year like all of us. But White's comment did strike me as a little off and he obviously understands the game better than most.

Why didn’t White  sing praises for Joe , like Joe is so wonderful , he always makes the right calls , Joe is the best ever , Joes unshakable, etc.  To me those beliefs didn’t exists in Whites mind and oh yeah Joes solid too is a secondary respect.  Like saying , yeah Miss America is ok looking .  ….

Well he probably read all the comments here because his comments on Joe tonight were a bit more fulsome 

Having to talk slower than usual because of a fat lip thanks to Bam Adebayo’s swinging arm in Game 3, White expressed gratitude for his success. He doesn’t carry any braggadocio or boaEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.lness.

“It started with Joe [Mazzulla],” White said. “Ever since he took over, he’s given me the most confidence and I can talk to him and he can talk to me and that relationship is just getting better and better each day and it’s amazing to play for him and I love it. We’ve got such great players on the team but they allow me to do what I do and believe in me.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/30/sports/derrick-white-game-4-celtics-heat/

OK...which of you is Derrick's burner account 

[ozgod]

Jaylen (inexplicably) had this to say about Joe too:

Forward Jaylen Brown said Monday before the Celtics beat the Heat, 102-88, in Game 4 of their Eastern Conference opening-round series that Mazzulla has continued to ascend during his second year in charge.

“I think Joe has definitely found his footing, even just the growth from last year to this year,” Brown said. “I think a lot of it had to do with being in the interim role and not being as secure with the staff, and now this year you can tell and notice the difference. I think we’ve been organized, I think we know what we want to get, and I think it’s been great. So I give a lot of credit to the coaching staff and Joe.

“I think he’s been really good this year.”

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/29/sports/celtics-mazzulla-coaching-brown/

Didn't know they were allowed to smoke weed during the season  Though if you try you could interpret this as Jaylen saying Joe sucked last season 

[mobilija]

It’s been pretty clear all season that the players have bought into Joe. Joe may not be a quick decision maker in games and lacks some creative play calling. But he has professional athletes playing hard and in scheme, that’s a pretty big part of being a pro coach.