Hayward so solid

[rollie mass]

I'm finally a Hayward fan .He is just perfect piece to fit the Jaylen and Jason duo. His command as a point forward or be able to just fade a become a facilitator and hit wide open threes.
When the whole crew plays defence it is quite spectacular,

[Chief]

This, now healthy,  Hayward is the guy we thought we were getting.  He is a pleasure to watch.

[jbpats]

I'm finally a Hayward fan .He is just perfect piece to fit the Jaylen and Jason duo. His command as a point forward or be able to just fade a become a facilitator and hit wide open threes.
When the whole crew plays defence it is quite spectacular,

TP, really what I've been saying all along with this guy. I never expected him to be a 24 ppg guy like others around here, but a 14,8 & 8 type numbers is exactly what he is good for.
Guy is a floor general, just solid in all facets of the game. Whether he is worth the max is another debate, but I love his game and feel he is a great fit on this team.

[Jvalin]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

[Green-18]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

I mostly agree, although it's fair to argue that Jaylen has more dominant stretches where he gets red hot.  Hayward is the teams best all around offensive player.  To quote Paul Pierce, Hayward "gives the game what it needs".

Before people go crazy, by no means am I suggesting that Hayward's all around game outweights the scoring impact of Tatum and Kemba.  That couldn't be further from the truth.  I'd equate Hayward's offensive impact to what Al Horford gave us in prior seasons.  The major difference being that Hayward can be more dynamic as a wing player.

[Somebody]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Assuming the bolded is even true (I don't think it is, without Brown we'd have a pretty big hole in the 2-4 spots defensively and will get abused by big wings, but we can get by without Hayward by increasing the offensive load of Smart and Wannamaker to support Kemba), that's a measure of situational value rather than how good a player is.

[BMark]

Wanamaker is a 3rd point guard in this league.

Hayward should set up the offense, even when Kemba is in the game.

Hayward has also proven to be an effective rebounder and his defense is underrated.

He compares favorably in terms of contributions to what Horford brought.

[footey]

I love Gordon,  but he has not been better than Jaylen.  They are much different types of players.  And it's not simply one guy passes better, the other defends better. Jaylen has developed into the kind of guy who can take over a game like he did last night.  He has surpassed ability of Gordon to create a three point shot.  His athleticism is superior.  Plus his star is still rising; he is 7 years younger than Gordon.  Compare Gordon at 23 with Jaylen.

This is not a slight against Gordon, just a reality check if we want to compare them. Why frankly I don't even understand.

Comparison is the thief of joy (kudos to Kyrie for that paraphrase).

[mmmmm]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.

[Donoghus]

He almost was able to bail out the C's big time against the Bucks when Tatum was floundering.   He's been pretty steady.

[Greengang5]

All the Celtics wings are playing their roles well, and unlike last year they are clear.  Hayward would still be a 20+ a night scorer if getting 15-20 shots per night like Jayson or Jaylen.  However, that isn't what the team needs today or long term. All three are playing at an all star level. Hayward has the all around game to fill in for positions 1-4 during a game.  Nobody else on the roster can do that, except maybe Smart.  However, Smart isn't a three level scorer like Hayward.  In the end, it is good to see our 3 wings playing well together and setting egos aside which is also where Hayward excels.

[keevsnick]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hey man no worries, you're entitled to be wrong every once in a while.

[Jvalin]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.

Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big hole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!

[Somebody]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.

Composite box stats like win shares fail to accurately capture defensive impact though - Hayward lags behind both Brown and Tatum significantly on that end of the court. I think there is a very good argument that he's the worst wing player out of the three due to his one-dimensional impact (in the sense that most, if not all of his contributions are on the offensive end of the court since he's pretty close to being a neutral defender imo).

[Somebody]

Unpopular opinion here, but I truly believe that Hayward has been better than Brown this season. At the very least, he contibutes to team success more than Brown does.

Both Hayward and Brown are efficient scorers. Hayward is a better passer. Brown is a better defender. Imo, we need Hayward's passing more than we need Brown's defense. The only player on the roster with pass-first mentality might be Smart. Kemba is a willing passer, but he's a score-first PG. Wanamaker averages good assists numbers, only because he plays within his limitations. He ain't a pass-first guard. The C's are 25th in the league in assists per game. We desperately need Hayward's passing. He keeps everyone involved on offense, hence he keeps everyone happy.

Basketball is a team game. Replace Hayward with a score-first wing and the C's will become a dysfunctional team, like we were last season. This is the #1 reason I don't want us to trade Hayward.

Hayward HAS been more impactful towards winning (than Brown OR Tatum), at least as measured using Win Shares.  And that shouldn't really be surprising.  He's a much more experienced, all-star level player who is getting paid a max contract for a reason.  His skills are far more developed and broad-based.  He affects so many more aspects of the game.  There are very few things that need to be done on the court that Hayward doesn't do in an above average, positive way. 

Jaylen is 6 years younger.  He's still (steadily) adding new skills each year.

That said, Jaylen is at this point well ahead of where Gordon was back when he was in his age 23 season and looks to have a long-term upside that is much higher, health permitting.

Don't know about the ''much higher upside'' part. Hate to say it, but Jaylen is a one-dimentional offensive player. He can create shots for himself. He cannot create shots for his teammates (not consistently anyway). If you ask me, this is a big whole in his game. I don't think he will ever become an above average passer.

To a lesser extent, Tatum is one-dimentional as well. Having said that, I'm confident that he will become a more willing passer in the future. Yesterday's game was a good indicator of his potential as a passer. He was coming off of an abysmal performance against the Bucks. He responded by picking his spots wisely, hence he recorded 8 assists and only 2 turnovers! That's how he should be playing in every game!

Fortunately basketball is played on both ends of the court - Jaylen and Tatum don't need to be the offensive player Hayward is to leave him in the dust in terms of player impact.

Imo Jaylen's issue is that he doesn't get enough opportunities on-ball to develop those skills in game. He's certainly not a good passer right now, but Brad putting him in that off-ball role doesn't help.