Author Topic: Time for Ainge to Retire?  (Read 5083 times)

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Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 10:36:24 AM »

Offline Casperian

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Ainge hasn't had the best 12 months of his career but anyone second guessing the Hayward signing is practicing revisionist history.  Everyone was pumped when he signed here.  Kyrie didn't work out but keeping IT wouldn't have worked out either. 

And for everyone pointing at Kawhai and Toronto - if Durant and Thompson don't get hurt, Toronto doesn't beat GS.

I was steaming mad when it happened, I'm still steaming mad. And it wasn't just me who hated it at the time. I remember a Bill Simmons podcast during the 2017 off-season, I think, where he had Haralabos Voulgaris on. You know, the guy who made millions off of betting on NBA games. Bill was gushing over the new Celtics, and how they'll dominate the east for years to come, and how Tatum will turn into the next Kobe and so on. When asked for his thoughts, Voulgaris paused, laughed in his face and said something like "No, just no". He was ouright mocking him. So no, not everyone thought this was a good move. This could've been avoided.

A GM who gets cold feet when he has to cash in his assets is useless, regardless of how many small deals he wins. We had five years to prepare for Davis (or any other top player) becoming available, instead everything's going down the drain.

Who was the genius who thought it was a good idea to go for a nutcase like Kyrie Irving? It's one thing if fans on an internet message board can't see past stats and hype, nobody expects them to, but it's basically the whole job description for a GM to identify the correct players.

This whole "In Ainge we trust" mantra has become a tired and worn out shtick, repeated ad nauseum by the same people who deluded themselves into the most optimistic perspective possible every step along they way. Every little move we made was supposedly part of Ainge's masterplan, and we were winning them all, and winning, and winning, and winning.

Turns out, there's no tiger blood in our tank, and every small sideway move that we did win now rings hollow, and was probably never all that important to begin with.

The simple truth of the matter is this: every single GM of every floundering franchise in the league could theoretically get their team into the play-offs. Draft the safest choice, overpay in free agency, trade good draft picks for disgruntled B-level stars. Takes you...maybe two years. You can make the play-offs that way, but you're never going to win a championship.
There is no mystery here, and being able to put a mildly successful team on the floor is not what distinguishes a good from a bad GM.

Yet, that seems to be exactly how Danny handled what we used to call "our treasure trove of assets". There is exactly zero reason, aside from the aforementioned delusion, to trust Danny with another rebuild and believe this time things will be different.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2019, 10:50:14 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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We have gone from championship aspirations to hoping we sign...Russell? We have won nothing in over a decade. Kyrie and Al are history, and AD never wanted to come here for some reason.

With Ainge’s health issues, it may be time for him to retire so we can rebuild with a fresh approach? Thoughts?


Video game approach. The topsy turvy NBA is the result of the inmates running the asylum, not any single GM. The NBA more than any other professional sport is affected by a single new signing. It's possible to turn a lower level team into a contender with one stroke of the free agent pen. And the same is true in the reverse. (see the Celtics)

The NBA needs owners to better be able to protect their franchises and the smaller venue cities. The NBA needs a long protracted strike and a new captain steering the ship.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2019, 11:01:52 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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We have gone from championship aspirations to hoping we sign...Russell? We have won nothing in over a decade. Kyrie and Al are history, and AD never wanted to come here for some reason.

With Ainge’s health issues, it may be time for him to retire so we can rebuild with a fresh approach? Thoughts?


Video game approach. The topsy turvy NBA is the result of the inmates running the asylum, not any single GM. The NBA more than any other professional sport is affected by a single new signing. It's possible to turn a lower level team into a contender with one stroke of the free agent pen. And the same is true in the reverse. (see the Celtics)

The NBA needs owners to better be able to protect their franchises and the smaller venue cities. The NBA needs a long protracted strike and a new captain steering the ship.

Strike? I think you mean lockout, it is the players that are out of control not the owners.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2019, 11:08:23 AM »

Offline __ramonezy__

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Blaming Ainge for our current circumstance is ridiculous... this is the very type of situation we need a GM like Ainge to guide us through. Ainge's management of our assets had us contending and rebuilding simultaneously!!!!! No other team was doing that... and we still have other assets in the treasure chest. If we "rebuild" it would be from a position where we already have an all-star on the roster and two #3 picks that are on the rise, with an all-defense 1st teamer.

Now the reality we face is that the 29 other teams are going to be making moves as well and some in more attractive markets... Ainge has no control over that. He put together a team that at the start of the season all media houses had us as the favourites. Now it hasn't worked out as planned and players are exercising their "options"... even so, we're still left with building blocks to rise up again, that's the NBA.

From the get-go there were several paths that we could take... this simply means the finished Celtics product may look a bit more like the Nuggets with several players pulling together as opposed to a star-driven Rockets, which is how we were with Kyrie.

Either way... future is bright.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2019, 11:31:10 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I believe he should leave

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2019, 11:39:09 AM »

Offline cman88

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I don't think you can blame Ainge for Kyrie being fickle. You should blame Kyrie for that. Think about it. he traded his way off a contender because he wanted to be a "leader" and then when going got tough and it was time to be a leader he became a cancer

then a year after saying he will "resign with the Celtics" he is going to bolt for Brooklyn...another team with young talent. Watch him destroy them from the inside as well...Kyrie to me seems like the guy who is always angry, always disappointed

If kyrie had given ainge more indication he would stay I expect you would see AD in a Boston uniform next year. But he didn't which tied ainges hands.

so, now its time to go forward with Rozier/Tatum/Brown and put players around them to succeed. Its a tougher longer path. but Kyrie has shown that the warning signs we saw in Cleveland are a much bigger issue than just Cleveland.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2019, 01:45:51 PM »

Offline gpap

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I'm willing to wait this summer out before commenting but the way I feel right now, I think it's time for a change.

Ainge just seems like a very one-dimensional GM.

His calling card is acquire assets, watch them obtain value, then trade them for a top 10 player while seasons upon seaons are being wasted. It worked once with KG and he thinks it will work again and again.

His drafting (IMO) sucks and in the last 5 years, the only good trade he made was the Kyrie one (yes, it was a good trade, just didn't work out.)

I feel we need a GM that's more aggressive, bold, creative and someone who's a better judge of talent.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2019, 01:47:05 PM »

Offline gpap

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I blame Ainge for not fixing the locker room/bench issue during the season. 


But I cannot think of a person I rather run the rebuild.

How many rebuilds are we going to go through?

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 01:48:55 PM »

Offline gpap

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Blaming Ainge for our current circumstance is ridiculous... this is the very type of situation we need a GM like Ainge to guide us through. Ainge's management of our assets had us contending and rebuilding simultaneously!!!!! No other team was doing that... and we still have other assets in the treasure chest. If we "rebuild" it would be from a position where we already have an all-star on the roster and two #3 picks that are on the rise, with an all-defense 1st teamer.

Now the reality we face is that the 29 other teams are going to be making moves as well and some in more attractive markets... Ainge has no control over that. He put together a team that at the start of the season all media houses had us as the favourites. Now it hasn't worked out as planned and players are exercising their "options"... even so, we're still left with building blocks to rise up again, that's the NBA.

From the get-go there were several paths that we could take... this simply means the finished Celtics product may look a bit more like the Nuggets with several players pulling together as opposed to a star-driven Rockets, which is how we were with Kyrie.

Either way... future is bright.

It's so bright, I have to wear my sunglasses at night.

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 01:50:25 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I blame Ainge for not fixing the locker room/bench issue during the season. 


But I cannot think of a person I rather run the rebuild.

How many rebuilds are we going to go through?
This is the 2nd since he’s been here
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Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2019, 01:52:11 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I blame Ainge for not fixing the locker room/bench issue during the season. 


But I cannot think of a person I rather run the rebuild.

How many rebuilds are we going to go through?


Well, the first one ended with a title.


The 2nd one got to contender status before a fickle FA decided to leave.

I would say that is still better then most (all) GMs options out there. 

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2019, 01:52:55 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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 EDITED: Please open a new thread to discuss what was deleted here. It does not belong in this thread

Ainge has been unlucky since the Hayward contract blew up in his face with that gruesome injury. Part of that has be the unexpected success in drafting Tatum and Brown. At some point he realized they had to be the core of the franchise for the near future, especially with the team up against the cap wall. So unloading Irving and Horford is no surprise after the decision not to give up the core for a risky deal in Davis. He would have had to give up much more than the Raptors gave up for Leonard. In addition, he hasn't forgotten that unexpected run to the finals against the Cavs in '17 without Irving or Hayward, when the youngsters, including Rozier, played so well. It looks like he may return to that chemistry.

Some argue Ainge had repeated opportunities to sign other free agents, and could have improved the team up front last season when Baynes got hurt and they lost a lot of games. Many felt  he didn't because he was conserving resources for Davis. But the sudden reversal in his thinking about Davis  makes those decisions almost look regrettable. He obviously needs somebody up front to replace Horford, preferable a legitimate 5 , though that probably won't happen given their value set.

I don't see this team contending for a few years, and I also don't see any major management or coaching changes. Wyc is a bottom line guy, and he's won his championship.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 02:01:44 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2019, 02:03:56 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I'm willing to wait this summer out before commenting but the way I feel right now, I think it's time for a change.

Ainge just seems like a very one-dimensional GM.

His calling card is acquire assets, watch them obtain value, then trade them for a top 10 player while seasons upon seaons are being wasted. It worked once with KG and he thinks it will work again and again.

His drafting (IMO) sucks and in the last 5 years, the only good trade he made was the Kyrie one (yes, it was a good trade, just didn't work out.)

I feel we need a GM that's more aggressive, bold, creative and someone who's a better judge of talent.

Was trading the Cavs 2016 1st rounder and Tayshawn Prince for Isaiah Thomas not a good trade? Or trading down from #1 to #3 plus the Kings' pick?

On a lesser scale, I'd throw in trading a few 2nd rounders in the 2016 draft for the Clippers' pick. The AB/Morris trade is arguable, too
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Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2019, 02:10:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Ainge is an incredible business manager. He can build a team to a championship from nothing, and there isn't a lot of front office decision makers that can say that. But, as shown after the Big 3 era, he can properly handle the decline of a franchise, making great decisions that pay off down the line.

Part of being a great business manager is not only being able to make the right decisions when things are good, but being able to maximize your results when things are going wrong and turn things around to the positive. The best business managers are exceptional emergency management people that can make the best out of a bad situation.

That is Ainge. Celtic fans shouldn't be looking at Ainge as a scapegoat for this last year or more. They should be happy they have a guy that can turn the current crap situation around and lead the team back to contention.




Re: Time for Ainge to Retire?
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2019, 02:23:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Ainge is an incredible business manager. He can build a team to a championship from nothing, and there isn't a lot of front office decision makers that can say that. But, as shown after the Big 3 era, he can properly handle the decline of a franchise, making great decisions that pay off down the line.

Part of being a great business manager is not only being able to make the right decisions when things are good, but being able to maximize your results when things are going wrong and turn things around to the positive. The best business managers are exceptional emergency management people that can make the best out of a bad situation.

That is Ainge. Celtic fans shouldn't be looking at Ainge as a scapegoat for this last year or more. They should be happy they have a guy that can turn the current crap situation around and lead the team back to contention.


I want to say that I agree with this characterization of Ainge and I think the Celts could do far worse than Ainge for their GM.


That said, I know as well that an Ainge rebuild means the team is going to remain in a constant state of flux.  Players will be seen as assets first and the team will been seen as a repository for those assets rather than a cohesive group with a particular identity or style.


Yes, they have Tatum and Brown and I expect that those guys are going to be here for a while.  But the rest of the team is probably going to turn over A LOT as Ainge shuffles the pieces around to try to replenish the team's assets and set himself up to acquire another star or two.


The fact is Ainge took his shot in consecutive years signing Horford then Hayward and trading for Kyrie.  The plan was to trade for AD and complete the masterpiece.  But it all fell apart for reasons that are various and all outside of Ainge's control.

The plan for this upcoming rebuild should be no different.  He'll take the same kinds of steps he took to get from the KG/Pierce trade to where the team was at the end of summer 2017 -- in a position to be really good for a long time if things work out in the Celts' favor.


I don't have to be happy about it, though.  I'm really tired of the roster turning over so frequently.  I want to have a stable foundation of a team that I can invest in emotionally and get excited about.  But as we sit here it's clear the Celtics don't have the formula in place for a contender, so we shouldn't assume that anybody currently on the roster will be here when the Celtics are ready to be truly competitive again.


On top of that, even though I recognize the value of Ainge's strategy, I can't help feeling somewhat bitter about it right now since it's a strategy that obviously depends a lot on choosing the right guys to go after.  You could also say it depends a lot on the right guys being available at the time when your assets are ripest. 

The next time a superstar is available, will that guy be a super high character guy who makes everybody around him better, like Horford?  Will he be a former MVP with a galvanizing personality who is great on both ends and who is at just the right part of his career to buy into being part of a great team, like KG?

Or will he be a sourpuss weirdo who blames everybody but himself for why he's not happy and his team isn't playing as well as it should? 
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