Author Topic: Jayson Tatum  (Read 7604 times)

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Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2019, 05:24:46 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
That was bugging me too, so I fixed it.

Thanks TP

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2019, 08:27:43 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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I wouldn't trade Tatum for AD. I just wouldn't do it. You would gain only 3 things...a little better rebounding, a little better shot- blocking, and a little stronger offense down low.

Tatum is good at all aspects of the game and will only get better at all of them, including the things AD gives you. Davis is not hardly gonna ad anything more to his game simply because he's a big man. The only way I would be wrong is if he suddenly turns into Pippen, and we all know that ain't gonna happen.

Tatum is the one guy I would NOT trade.

For any reason...and this is from a guy who originally wanted Jackson because I saw Pippen in HIM.

I didn't even get into details, but I think y'all can be quite crazy when it comes to ball. There's a reason why no big man is considered the goat, and it's basically because others control the game and set them up.

So you'll be trading a controller for a reactionary piece.

And how y'all gonna get all these nice young players and can't wait 5 minutes for them to learn something.

I swear I just don't get y'all.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 08:32:48 AM by Triplenickle »

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I wouldn't trade Tatum for AD. I just wouldn't do it. You would gain only 3 things...a little better rebounding, a little better shot- blocking, and a little stronger offense down low.

Tatum is good at all aspects of the game and will only get better at all of them, including the things AD gives you. Davis is not hardly gonna ad anything more to his game simply because he's a big man. The only way I would be wrong is if he suddenly turns into Pippen, and we all know that ain't gonna happen.

Tatum is the one guy I would NOT trade.

For any reason...and this is from a guy who originally wanted Jackson because I saw Pippen in HIM.

I didn't even get into details, but I think y'all can be quite crazy when it comes to ball. There's a reason why no big man is considered the goat, and it's basically because others control the game and set them up.

So you'll be trading a controller for a reactionary piece.

And how y'all gonna get all these nice young players and can't wait 5 minutes for them to learn something.

I swear I just don't get y'all.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=anthony+davis&player_id1_select=Anthony+Davis&y1=2019&player_id1=davisan02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2019&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

If the only differences you can discern are a "little" better rebounding, where there is a difference of 6.6RPG, a "little better shot-blocking", where AD averages over triple the blocks Tatum does, and a "little stronger offense down low", where AD scores almost 12PPG more than Tatum then I don't know what to tell you.

Davis is a massively better scorer, rebounder and defender than Tatum, and is even a considerably better passer than Tatum. Tatum's only edge really is shooting, but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact their EFG% is comparable, with AD having a slight edge.

I love Tatum, but he has a very slim chance of ever becoming the player Anthony Davis is. Even by his second season Davis was a 20/10 machine while being a top 3 big man defender in the league.
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Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2019, 09:14:01 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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I wouldn't trade Tatum for AD. I just wouldn't do it. You would gain only 3 things...a little better rebounding, a little better shot- blocking, and a little stronger offense down low.

Tatum is good at all aspects of the game and will only get better at all of them, including the things AD gives you. Davis is not hardly gonna ad anything more to his game simply because he's a big man. The only way I would be wrong is if he suddenly turns into Pippen, and we all know that ain't gonna happen.

Tatum is the one guy I would NOT trade.

For any reason...and this is from a guy who originally wanted Jackson because I saw Pippen in HIM.

I didn't even get into details, but I think y'all can be quite crazy when it comes to ball. There's a reason why no big man is considered the goat, and it's basically because others control the game and set them up.

So you'll be trading a controller for a reactionary piece.

And how y'all gonna get all these nice young players and can't wait 5 minutes for them to learn something.

I swear I just don't get y'all.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=anthony+davis&player_id1_select=Anthony+Davis&y1=2019&player_id1=davisan02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2019&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

If the only differences you can discern are a "little" better rebounding, where there is a difference of 6.6RPG, a "little better shot-blocking", where AD averages over triple the blocks Tatum does, and a "little stronger offense down low", where AD scores almost 12PPG more than Tatum then I don't know what to tell you.

Davis is a massively better scorer, rebounder and defender than Tatum, and is even a considerably better passer than Tatum. Tatum's only edge really is shooting, but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact their EFG% is comparable, with AD having a slight edge.

I love Tatum, but he has a very slim chance of ever becoming the player Anthony Davis is. Even by his second season Davis was a 20/10 machine while being a top 3 big man defender in the league.

Do you honestly believe Jayson is gonna be a 15 point scorer who defers to older players for his career?

When he breaks out the league is toast, man. I'm pretty sure he stagnated this season only because of non-defined roles, consistency, and figuring out Kobe's advice. He's only a second year player and I think he's way ahead of the curve.

Not only that but do we really need more scorers, or do we just need Williams in the lineup every night? I just think Brad's doing that not mess with Williams confidence, and maybe sore knees.

And Theis is alright as well as Baynes

I would only make trades at this point if something fell in our lap, other than that I would bring in people that's been there to mentor and talk to these guys and be patient.

Also, I would find Walter Mcarty and bring him back...wherever he is

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2019, 09:26:11 AM »

Offline Triplenickle

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And don't forget Kobe was like a non-factor the first 4 years of his career.

You only appreciate what you got until you lose it.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2019, 09:37:09 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Um for all of you that want to now go after Tatum.

One, there is nothing wrong with mid range jumpers. It's called being a well rounded basketball player. If they take away a 3, he still has the ability to score. SMH...sometimes I wonder how long some people have watched basketball.

Two, with his frame he rarely misses games. I can't even remember the last game he missed. So it tells me he's durable.

Three, hes not even playing as many positions as he should be playing. He can play SG, SF and PF because of his size and ballhandling.

Four, he doesn't even get the calls. He should. Once he gets stronger with the ball, he will live at the FT line.

Five, he doesn't get shook in the moment. You can run offense through him late in the 4th.

I can go on and on because he's probably not done growing. Personally I would hesitate very much to give him up for glassman AD.🤷🏾‍♂️

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2019, 10:21:08 AM »

Offline moiso

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I’m becoming more and more on board with KGBirdBias’s point about durability.  The guy who plays is always more valuable than the guy in street clothes.  And Davis is kind of like Irving in that they miss a lot of games with “soreness”,  not even real injuries.  Do we want two guys like that?  Probably; but it’s a question I’ve been asking myself.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2019, 11:16:45 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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glad people are now starting to look at durability as a factor in the Kyrie negotiations. Took you all a while to see what I have said.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2019, 12:06:24 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Um for all of you that want to now go after Tatum.

One, there is nothing wrong with mid range jumpers. It's called being a well rounded basketball player. If they take away a 3, he still has the ability to score. SMH...sometimes I wonder how long some people have watched basketball.

Two, with his frame he rarely misses games. I can't even remember the last game he missed. So it tells me he's durable.

Three, hes not even playing as many positions as he should be playing. He can play SG, SF and PF because of his size and ballhandling.

Four, he doesn't even get the calls. He should. Once he gets stronger with the ball, he will live at the FT line.

Five, he doesn't get shook in the moment. You can run offense through him late in the 4th.

I can go on and on because he's probably not done growing. Personally I would hesitate very much to give him up for glassman AD.🤷🏾‍♂️

1) Valid points, but you should probably stop making any comments about, "wonder how long some people have watched basketball." We all have different view points in what we believe is correct, making statements like that further alienates other people from sharing their own beliefs unless its with an hidden agenda. Just my two cents.

2) Agree on this as well.

3) I don't think he can play SG though. Tatum has length/frame to go up against 3's, and 4's. But his 1 on 1 defense is very weak, and he's been beat many times on the dribble by faster players.

4) I never understood why he doesn't get contact sometimes. It really confuses me. I believe he also shares the same issue with after prime Carmelo. Carmelo after his prime, didn't get to the FT line as much, even when he got blatantly hit through contact.

5) That is true, but his playmaking is still rather putrid. He doesn't pass out of double teams, and doesn't use his handles in transition to create easy opportunities. It's like he believes he should be the one scoring, and has immense tunnel vision when fighting through double teams.
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Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2019, 12:07:16 PM »

Offline Triplenickle

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Um for all of you that want to now go after Tatum.

One, there is nothing wrong with mid range jumpers. It's called being a well rounded basketball player. If they take away a 3, he still has the ability to score. SMH...sometimes I wonder how long some people have watched basketball.

Two, with his frame he rarely misses games. I can't even remember the last game he missed. So it tells me he's durable.

Three, hes not even playing as many positions as he should be playing. He can play SG, SF and PF because of his size and ballhandling.

Four, he doesn't even get the calls. He should. Once he gets stronger with the ball, he will live at the FT line.

Five, he doesn't get shook in the moment. You can run offense through him late in the 4th.

I can go on and on because he's probably not done growing. Personally I would hesitate very much to give him up for glassman AD.‍♂️

It's like the thrill of the trade is the only reason they're interested in the NBA.

With Tatum, he's got some of Grant hill, Reggie Miller, Scottie Pippen, AD, and at least 5 other superstars wrapped up in his game, and he's clutch doesn't get rattled, and still makes a difference on D and rebounding without even trying, and this is the guy they decide they wanna part with. His professionalism alone his rookie year was [dang] near magic-like...what more do they think they're gonna get from a college player with his age? And how long did he even play college.

They have no idea how special this dude is...and he's not an **** :)

I mean...do you know what it's like to read this garbage?  I would't even trade Jalen or Smart for anybody at this point.

You ADD to your pieces, not play musical chairs and revolving doors just because you can. And as young as these guys are, they already have a certain amount of chemistry I just wouldn't bust up right now.

You may never get it again and just have a collection of players who are just talented. Like say the Thunder. Call me when they're favorites for a title.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2019, 01:56:09 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Tatum is a really nice player, and I look forward to his continuing development. He shows signs of improving his passing and grifting free throws - very, very helpful. His rebounding is better.

I do understand why people aren't happy with his continuing love affair with long twos - which he is not good at. People remember the spectacular makes and forget the mundane rim-rockers. This year, JT is at 37.6% when he shoots from between 10 feet away and the 3-point line. He very rarely gets fouled. That is a very poor return on those possessions. For comparison, Kyrie Irving (who everybody loves to hate these days) connects on 52% of his shots from 10 feet to the 3-point line.

Tatum can't eliminate jumpshots from his game altogether, but I sure wish he would take fewer of them until he can hit them.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2019, 02:14:51 PM »

Offline Silky

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I wouldn't trade Tatum for AD. I just wouldn't do it. You would gain only 3 things...a little better rebounding, a little better shot- blocking, and a little stronger offense down low.

Tatum is good at all aspects of the game and will only get better at all of them, including the things AD gives you. Davis is not hardly gonna ad anything more to his game simply because he's a big man. The only way I would be wrong is if he suddenly turns into Pippen, and we all know that ain't gonna happen.

Tatum is the one guy I would NOT trade.

For any reason...and this is from a guy who originally wanted Jackson because I saw Pippen in HIM.

I didn't even get into details, but I think y'all can be quite crazy when it comes to ball. There's a reason why no big man is considered the goat, and it's basically because others control the game and set them up.

So you'll be trading a controller for a reactionary piece.

And how y'all gonna get all these nice young players and can't wait 5 minutes for them to learn something.

I swear I just don't get y'all.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=anthony+davis&player_id1_select=Anthony+Davis&y1=2019&player_id1=davisan02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2019&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

If the only differences you can discern are a "little" better rebounding, where there is a difference of 6.6RPG, a "little better shot-blocking", where AD averages over triple the blocks Tatum does, and a "little stronger offense down low", where AD scores almost 12PPG more than Tatum then I don't know what to tell you.

Davis is a massively better scorer, rebounder and defender than Tatum, and is even a considerably better passer than Tatum. Tatum's only edge really is shooting, but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact their EFG% is comparable, with AD having a slight edge.

I love Tatum, but he has a very slim chance of ever becoming the player Anthony Davis is. Even by his second season Davis was a 20/10 machine while being a top 3 big man defender in the league.

if we are going to compare in a bubble,

What is the usage of each to make those numbers happen?

What is the opportunity cost at having a Davis take and play the amount he needs to make those numbers happen in a Celtics uniform to the remaining pieces?


Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2019, 05:09:58 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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 I didn't mean to take a shot at anyone specific with regards to knowing basketball. My main point is I'm sick of this era of basketball where it's the 3 or nothing. Middleton is the king of middle range. Rip, Ray, Kobe could all shoot middle range shots. Why do you think the Warriors are so good. Curry hits the 3s but Klay and KD kill the middle range shots. You need to be able to shoot from anywhere on the court. This is simple fundamental basketball. Now, Stevens and other coaches hate when a play is a foot over the 3pt line and I can understand that...but don't base your entire game around shooting 3s. Tatum's game is still maturing. In 2 years he will have the entire package.

Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2019, 09:41:27 AM »

Offline smokeablount

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People pointing to Tatum's will, like Pho in relation to Siakam/George, are spot on, and to me that's what it's all about.  Settling for long 2's is an issue because he's perfectly capable of getting to the rim, getting fouled, stepping back for the 3, and he's even a capable passer if you're a guy he likes to pass to.  I think he passes better near the rim than he does whip it along the perimeter, but he should be able to simply choose to be more effective by being smarter.  Same with defense, he has the ability as we saw in the playoffs but he hasn't looked great, even tho he's 19th in the NBA in Defensive WS.  He seems to have most if not all of the tools.

If he was smarter, picked his spots more, or maybe he just got more experience or became a team's clear cut #1 or #2 option, these things could/would get solved.

If so, and he took the best shots available and committed to D and playmaking, he'd be back on the top 10 player track.  I wouldn't say he's definitely on it now, and this is coming from a huge 'Draft Tatum' guy and 1 of only 2-3 posters who said he should start since '17 preseason, so I'm far from being a Tater Hater. 
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Re: Jayson Tatum
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2019, 10:21:09 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I think tatum's poor defense is overblown to a certain extent. yes he gets caught in the rotating defense occasionally but one on one I do think the effort is there most nights and it seems he forces guys to have to make a pretty difficult shot.

his D is about what I expect from a superstar player not known for his defense. there are no one on one stoppers in this league, he'll never be known as one either but he's not as bad as everyone seems to believe imo.

his offense should be better, but part of me believes... or hopes he's working on things this season. either that kobe did ruin him.