Author Topic: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3  (Read 14647 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« on: May 14, 2008, 11:37:14 AM »

Offline banty19

  • Sam Hauser
  • Posts: 159
  • Tommy Points: 25
Sorry if this has already been posted. Simmons really lays into the Celtics but I think he has a lot of valid points, mainly:

-Sam messes up the chemistry of the team
-Doc is coaching differently in the playoffs
-KG needs to take over some games

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080514

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 11:52:18 AM »

Offline coco

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2682
  • Tommy Points: 146
Regular season rotation:

EHouse for RRondo
TA for RAllen
JPosey for PPierce

Big man rotation - KG/Perk/Powe...sometimes GDavis

Playoffs rotation:

SCassell for RRondo
JPosey for RAllen
JPosey for PPierce

Big man rotation - KG/PJ/Perk/JPosey...sometimes LPowe


Conclusion:

Basically your slashing, perimeter defense and energy has been replaced by experience and trust   :o

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 11:56:58 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
I generally agree with Simmons, although I disagree with the idea of playing Paul at the 4.  That doesn't help Paul drive (because he's got Wallace or Varejao on him, both of whom can probably cover him on penetration), and it weakens our rebounding and our bench.  No thanks.

I thought the article was a little snippy, but he's just raising the same criticisms that many of us have.  Doc has done poorly this post-season, and so have Sam, Paul, and Ray.  KG has been our best player, so he gets a bit of a pass from me, but even he can step it up down the stretch.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 12:00:43 PM »

Offline EnP24

  • Kristaps Porzingis
  • Posts: 186
  • Tommy Points: 9
This article has some good points and is pretty funny but KG did get the winning basket in Game 1 of this series. I know that would have made Simmons' article not as fluent but it should have been noted.
24

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 12:04:58 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47514
  • Tommy Points: 2404
I have only thought after reading this - Bill Simmons is a blithering idiot

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 12:07:42 PM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30921
  • Tommy Points: 3766
  • Yup
Humorous at points, but a wee bit on the harsh side (I guess that kind of wraps up Bill Simmons in a nut shell)
Yup

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 12:29:42 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
i mean at this point would you even want them to go back to playing Eddie House, Tony Allen and doing what worked during the regular season?  It would probably throw the entire team off and we'd be dead before we knew it.  Maybe we gotta get out of this series first and then focus on bringing back what worked.

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 12:35:37 PM »

Offline furball

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 938
  • Tommy Points: 95
I thought this article was spot on.  He admits that he wrote it in anger right after game 4 hence the bitterness but I think what he is saying is absolutely right.  I do however think more highly of Ray Allen's play then he does. 

This "quote" from Posey sums up the problem I've had with Doc since day one.  "We need to force them to adapt to us instead of constantly reacting to what they're doing. That's what winning teams do."

This is what those of us who have been calling for Doc's head for well, three years now for me, have been fearing.  Hopefully the team can overcome it with thier play at home.  I can't say I'm optomistic about having to win 4 game sevens in one year even if they are all at home. 

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2008, 12:40:59 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
This article has some good points and is pretty funny but KG did get the winning basket in Game 1 of this series. I know that would have made Simmons' article not as fluent but it should have been noted.

actual reality and simmons often clash. he is funny at times though.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 01:13:26 PM »

Offline teddykgb

  • Joe Mazzulla
  • Posts: 145
  • Tommy Points: 20
I've got to be one of the biggest Eddie House fans on the planet, but this notion that Sam Cassell is killing us is absolutely absurd.  I'm so tired of reading people who know nothing about basketball telling me how Sam Cassell is killing our offense, or waxing about how incredible our 2nd team offense was prior to his arrival (it wasn't).  Cassell has had a few huge games for us in the playoffs, shooting us into a few games we had no part being in.  When he's missing, he's missing for a few minutes of playtime, and he's definitely calmed down after a few early missed shots.

He does sometimes take awful shots, but the thing about Sam that is very useful for us is that he's been willing to take shots.  Many of you are very unfairly criticizing him in lieu of other players, when lots of guys, especially on the road, are becoming pump fake and pass guys, almost all our role players including Posey are getting trigger shy, which does a few things:

1) forces paul, ray, and to a lesser extent garnett (he does a lot of this himself) and cassell to take harder shots or force the offense more.  We almost universally get evil paul pierce when our role players stop shooting, because Paul starts to drive too much and get into traffic, which is when he gets the ball slapped away and he puts on his sulk face and complains to the refs instead of getting back on d

2) makes our offense incredibly one dimensional.  We do a lot of really dumb things on offense, and in my opinion one of those things that somebody like Simmons should see is that Ray Allen is NOT a pick and roll player.  We've tried to get him going, in fact, they've really pushed it toward him in the series, but for some reason we act like he's a pick and roll player, when he's the worst pick and roll player on our team.  He dribbles away from the rim and into a double team, and has no ability to pass out of it, it's murdering our offense and his offensive output.  We'd be far better served giving ray isolation plays on the wing, because that's truly what he's good at and whre most of his points are coming from.  He's not Rip Hamilton, he doesn't shoot particularly well off screens nad he's got a lot of bad habits in terms of shooting while falling away from the rim to the left or right.  In many ways we're setting him up for failure by trying to force him into a type of player he isn't.  We'd be much better served running Paul off those same screens, and he's quite adept at the pick and roll.

As far as House goes, I think he should be playing, possibly even in lieu of Rondo, who has played like complete dog[poop] the last few games.  It's nice when he's hitting his runners, but the PGs are eating him alive defensively and cleveland just isn't concerned about his outside shot, and he's doing the pump fake and drive routine which allows them to reset defensively.

Just a few observations that probably should have been put into their own thread instead of this Simmons one, but anyplace will do.  I did like "The Big Two featuring Ray Allen", that was clever.  Reading this site is extremely frustrating right now because so many of you are just parroting back simple themes that are largely untrue.

Please refrain from profanity. - Thanks, Redz
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 01:17:34 PM by Redz »

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 01:39:55 PM »

Offline celtics2

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 847
  • Tommy Points: 42
Simmoms is so correct. Many of us have been saying aproximately the same. The Buck stops with Doc.

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 01:42:53 PM »

Offline BrickJames

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Tommy Points: 185
  • Master Mason
I've got to be one of the biggest Eddie House fans on the planet, but this notion that Sam Cassell is killing us is absolutely absurd.  I'm so tired of reading people who know nothing about basketball telling me how Sam Cassell is killing our offense, or waxing about how incredible our 2nd team offense was prior to his arrival (it wasn't).  Cassell has had a few huge games for us in the playoffs, shooting us into a few games we had no part being in.  When he's missing, he's missing for a few minutes of playtime, and he's definitely calmed down after a few early missed shots.

He does sometimes take awful shots, but the thing about Sam that is very useful for us is that he's been willing to take shots.  Many of you are very unfairly criticizing him in lieu of other players, when lots of guys, especially on the road, are becoming pump fake and pass guys, almost all our role players including Posey are getting trigger shy, which does a few things:

1) forces paul, ray, and to a lesser extent garnett (he does a lot of this himself) and cassell to take harder shots or force the offense more.  We almost universally get evil paul pierce when our role players stop shooting, because Paul starts to drive too much and get into traffic, which is when he gets the ball slapped away and he puts on his sulk face and complains to the refs instead of getting back on d

2) makes our offense incredibly one dimensional.  We do a lot of really dumb things on offense, and in my opinion one of those things that somebody like Simmons should see is that Ray Allen is NOT a pick and roll player.  We've tried to get him going, in fact, they've really pushed it toward him in the series, but for some reason we act like he's a pick and roll player, when he's the worst pick and roll player on our team.  He dribbles away from the rim and into a double team, and has no ability to pass out of it, it's murdering our offense and his offensive output.  We'd be far better served giving ray isolation plays on the wing, because that's truly what he's good at and whre most of his points are coming from.  He's not Rip Hamilton, he doesn't shoot particularly well off screens nad he's got a lot of bad habits in terms of shooting while falling away from the rim to the left or right.  In many ways we're setting him up for failure by trying to force him into a type of player he isn't.  We'd be much better served running Paul off those same screens, and he's quite adept at the pick and roll.

As far as House goes, I think he should be playing, possibly even in lieu of Rondo, who has played like complete dog[poop] the last few games.  It's nice when he's hitting his runners, but the PGs are eating him alive defensively and cleveland just isn't concerned about his outside shot, and he's doing the pump fake and drive routine which allows them to reset defensively.

Just a few observations that probably should have been put into their own thread instead of this Simmons one, but anyplace will do.  I did like "The Big Two featuring Ray Allen", that was clever.  Reading this site is extremely frustrating right now because so many of you are just parroting back simple themes that are largely untrue.

Please refrain from profanity. - Thanks, Redz

AMEN!  I'm not a big fan of Eddie "I'm in the dog" House, but my thoughts exactly.  I'm going to give you a "Tommy Point"!  ;D
God bless and good night!


Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2008, 01:47:18 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
I've got to be one of the biggest Eddie House fans on the planet, but this notion that Sam Cassell is killing us is absolutely absurd.  I'm so tired of reading people who know nothing about basketball telling me how Sam Cassell is killing our offense, or waxing about how incredible our 2nd team offense was prior to his arrival (it wasn't).  Cassell has had a few huge games for us in the playoffs, shooting us into a few games we had no part being in. 

If you're going to question the knowledge of "people who know nothing about basketball", please at least try to be accurate.

Which games constitute the "few huge games for us in the playoffs ... [which] we had no part being in"? 

Sam has had exactly one good game where he was actually a key contributor in a close game: Game 1 against Cleveland.  That game is hardly "a few", which implies at least three.  All of Sam's other good games have come 1) at home, and 2) in blowouts.  I'm not sure what games you're talking about when you refer to "a few games we had no part being in".

Secondly, Sam has been atrocious in a number of close losses.  We have participated in four games which we lost by 10 points or fewer, plus Game 4, which was closer than the final score suggests.  Sam has shoot 25% or below in all five of those games.  He has two assists or fewer in all five of those games, as well.

I'd say, on average, Sam has performed pretty poorly in games where we've needed him the most.  In close games, he's had one very positive performance, and five poor-to-terrible ones.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 01:47:25 PM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 247
  • Tommy Points: 4
As far as House goes, I think he should be playing, possibly even in lieu of Rondo, who has played like complete dog[poop] the last few games.  It's nice when he's hitting his runners, but the PGs are eating him alive defensively and cleveland just isn't concerned about his outside shot, and he's doing the pump fake and drive routine which allows them to reset defensively.

I was actually thinking that Rondo hasn't been driving to the hoop when he gets open jumpers and maybe he should consider doing that once in a while.  Rondo has been getting several wide open looks and hasn't been afraid to take them, but I sometimes wonder if he couldn't get other guys involved by driving and dishing or getting a higher percentage shot/draw a foul.  They need to change something to keep Rondo's man from simply ignoring him on the offensive end. 

Re: Simmons - New Column Bashing Doc, Sam, Big 3
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 01:51:16 PM »

Offline Mr October

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6129
  • Tommy Points: 247
great article by Simmons! Very funny, and many spot on observations.

I'm down with giving House some burn. And if the Cs do it, it should be early in a game at home. And Cassell has been as good a bench player as anyone (outside of Posey), meaning he's on at home and off on the road. On the road the stars have to step up, and play bigger.