Posssible Detroit trade

[fantankerous]

First of all, this is a terrible trade.  You're basically giving up all our players with value for Greg Monroe (who isn't a franchise type player).

Second of all, the money doesn't work.  Even if Detroit has a trade exception, you can't combine that with other players.

To correct a small point.  If Detroit had a 10.5 million trade exception (which they don't), this trade would technically work.  The trade exception could be used to absorb Wallace's contract, and Monroe's contract could be used to match Rondo and the young big we're sending.  But I might give up on rooting for the Celtics is this trade happened, because it would be terrible.  Absolutely dreadful.

The trade exception is created as a result of this trade, so Detroit does not need to possess one for it to work. 

However, it is a terrible trade. 

[crimson_stallion]

It's a very interesting trade for sure, I think the people immediately dismissing it aren't thinking about it enough. Shedding Wallace's contract is a pretty big deal.

Why? What top free agent is going to want to come here to play with that team?

Cap space isn't much use if you can't spend it effectively.

Making trades for All-Star talent will be harder too because there isn't enough talent on the roster to convince them to stay (sign contract extensions).

It's a 30-35 win team (non-playoff team) that takes Boston out of the running for high lottery picks (top 5) and consistently has them in that 8-12 range in the draft.

Beleive me - if you are the Boston Celtics, and you in the playoffs (even if it's an 8 seed), and you have a lot of young talented prospects, and you have >$30M in cap space so that you can offer more money than anybody else...people will sign with you.

Monroe is a defensively challenged probably-power forward who may have topped out at 15PPG and 9RPB. He's a good scorer from the low post and a solid passer, though.

I can't decide if I like this idea or not -- I dig the options, but I'm not sure how I feel about the pieces.

Monroe is actually a pretty decent defender statistically.  More or less average.  He won't give you an advantage on defense, but he'll at least hold his own - kind of like Sullinger, except without the physical limitations (conditioning, lack of size, etc). 

I'm not so sure he's topped out either.  He's only 24 years old, and he still managed to average the same numbers last season despite the addition of Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings, and the emergence of Andre Drummond.  I don't necessarilly think he's going to become a 20/10 guy (though it's by no means out of the realm of possibility) but I do think he'll be a guy who will potentially give you a consistant (and efficient) 17 and 10. I think that's pretty good for a starting big man who could become a very good #2 guy in the future.

The key factors for me with Monroe are the fact that he scores so efficiently (never averaged< 49% FG for a season) and the fact that he has the versatility (due to his size) to be able to play and defend both frontcourt positions.  The latter to me is a major selling point that doesn't show up on a stat sheet, but can be a total game changer on the court.

Sully is very similar statistically, but the fact that he has SOME three point range makes it tempting for him to try to use it, and he does have a tendancy to chuck way too many ill-advised threes.  I don't care if that's his decision or the coaches, I don't like it one bit.  Monroe hasn't taken that many threes in his entire life, and that's how I like my 'physical' big men to play - inside the three point line. 

The other issue with Sully is that he's too short to effectively man the center position, and he gets constantly slaugthered every time he does so. Given the Celtics history for heartbreaking injuries and mediocre centers, having a PF who can cover bot frontcourt positions is a big thing IMHO. It also gives you the flexability to shift him to either position if you get lucky and score a star PF/C via some other means. 

Oh, and he's got a good health record.  Over the 4 seasons in his career Monroe has played 80+ in three of them, with a total record of 94% games played.  Looking at Boston's injury history that's kind of important...especially given that Sully is a bit of a red flag in that area.

Even if he looks a lot like Sully on paper, I believe he would win us a lot more games.

[crimson_stallion]

its my understanding the TPE cant be used in combination with other players, only draft picks and $$

The issue with the TPE in this trade is not that.  The TPE can be used in multi-player trades -- you just have to split the trade into multiple deals.  That's how we got the exception to begin with -- in our trade with the Nets, we worked out the salaries such that we traded Pierce for Bogans, and Garnett and Terry for Wallace, Hump, and Joseph.  By trading Pierce 1-for-1 with Bogans, we we're granted the $10.5 million TPE.  So in a deal where we traded Rondo, we could get back a $15 million player that matched with Rondo, and a $10 million player that fit under the TPE.  It would just be structured as two separate deals, which is perfectly allowable.

The issue in this trade is that the TPE can be used by the Celtics to take on extra salary.  In this trade, however, it is being used by Detroit to take on extra salary (Wallace's).  That's not allowed.

Maybe I'm confused with my terminology.

What I basically meant is that Boston could send Rondo, Sully and Wallace to Detroit for Monroe, because the Monroe/Rondo swap would be pretty much an even swap, and Detroit would still have enough space below the cap to absorb Wallace and Sully.

I was of the impression that the other team can't just "absorb" the player, and that in this case the league generates a trade exception instead.  Based on the points raised in this tread, I assume that's not the case.

If not (and detroit could just aborb Wallace / Sully) then that's even better.

Basically to explain the deal:
1. I'm throwing Rondo in as the asset that is bring swapped for Monroe.  In any former time Rondo would be considered a better player, and hence you would expect extra back. In this case Rondo's value has recently gone (due to major injury) so we could probably get Monrow back, but would not likely get anything more

2. I'm adding Sully to the deal as a reason for Detroit to take on Wallace's contract.  We could probably trade Rondo for Monroe directly, but if the Piston's really want this deal to happen they might seriously consider taking on Wallace...and that would be a big benefit to the Celtics. They might not quite be willing to do it for Rondo alone though. A young, talented big on a rookie contact might be that little extra sweetener they need to sign on the dotted line.

If this was a pure Rondo -> Monroe swap I probably wouldn't do it, but if that trade opens the door for ditching Wallace then I'm all for it.  I don't think Sully is by any means as valuable as people think he is, so I want to make use of his 'overvalue' by using him to complete an otherwise unmakable deal.   

[saltlover]

First of all, this is a terrible trade.  You're basically giving up all our players with value for Greg Monroe (who isn't a franchise type player).

Second of all, the money doesn't work.  Even if Detroit has a trade exception, you can't combine that with other players.

To correct a small point.  If Detroit had a 10.5 million trade exception (which they don't), this trade would technically work.  The trade exception could be used to absorb Wallace's contract, and Monroe's contract could be used to match Rondo and the young big we're sending.  But I might give up on rooting for the Celtics is this trade happened, because it would be terrible.  Absolutely dreadful.

The trade exception is created as a result of this trade, so Detroit does not need to possess one for it to work. 

However, it is a terrible trade.

How is a trade exception being created for Detroit?  They are sending out only Monroe, and taking on $24.5 million in salary.

Mind you, I do think the trade works cap-wise, as Detroit could absorb Wallace with cap room, and absorb Rondo and Sullinger with the Monroe S&T.  But in this case, it would be the Celtics who wind up with another trade exception, and not Detroit.

[Geo123]

That's too much talent to give up for Monroe.

+1000

[D.o.s.]

Monroe is a defensively challenged probably-power forward who may have topped out at 15PPG and 9RPB. He's a good scorer from the low post and a solid passer, though.

I can't decide if I like this idea or not -- I dig the options, but I'm not sure how I feel about the pieces.

Monroe is actually a pretty decent defender statistically.  More or less average.  He won't give you an advantage on defense, but he'll at least hold his own - kind of like Sullinger, except without the physical limitations (conditioning, lack of size, etc). 

Not that I don't believe you, and I'm sure that some of it could by systemic, but Monroe's defensive rating is just a tick above the rest of the team's, and it's been awful, especially in losses.

Also, he posted an opponent FG% at the rim of 51.2 last season. That's not great (for comparison, Hibbert wound up with a 41.4%, Robin Lopez had a 42.5%, and Ibaka posted a 43.9%):
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC&filters=GP*GE*70

[Hawkeye199]

The trade should go down Jeff green and our 17th pick this year for monroe

[dreamgreen]

Interesting, Don't think I like it though.

I thought you were going to say:

6th pick, Wallace, Bass

for

Smith and Drummond

[knuckleballer]

Interesting, Don't think I like it though.

I thought you were going to say:

6th pick, Wallace, Bass

for

Smith and Drummond

I like this trade.     

[fitzhickey]

Interesting, Don't think I like it though.

I thought you were going to say:

6th pick, Wallace, Bass

for

Smith and Drummond

I like this trade.     

No chance Detroit does this