CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: jyyzzoel on January 04, 2013, 10:34:26 PM
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Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player? I think he would have trouble dominating the d-league, let alone the nba. Does anyone still think he can turn it around?
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No. He is what he is. An average back up small forward.
I haven't seen anything that would make me think otherwise.
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He has all the talent to become a very good player. His decision making is worrisome but that will only improve with age/experience.
His numbers have increased from month to month and I expect that trend to continue.
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He is a rotating chair. You don't know which version you will get at any given night.
But he did have a nice bucket from a kg pass down low. A nice block even though he was initially the one who messed up.
He doesn't mind being behind the scenes kind of guy. Whatever we won tonight
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He isnt terrible. If he was on a better contract there would really be none of this talk. Lets be honest.... there have been worse contract given out. Rashard lewis anyone???
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I agree he won't be a star but I think he will reach the ceiling of a starter for a playoff caliber team.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I agree he won't be a star but I think he will reach the ceiling of a starter for a playoff caliber team.
Didn't he do that already in OKC?
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Decent player, good player, star player... I really don't care. I think he's a solid player to the have for the role that we need in this team, and someone I'm very confident that will have some good trade value down the line despite he living up to his potential or not.
For now, I'm not going to worry about it.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I agree he won't be a star but I think he will reach the ceiling of a starter for a playoff caliber team.
Yeah, but couldn't any of the top 45 or so SFs start on a playoff caliber team, assuming they were surrounded by the proper teammates?
Keith Bogans, for instance, started 82 games for a team that went 62-20.
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I have seen Jeff Green play before and I can say he's more than decent.
I don't know what the problem is right now. Maybe he's stiff because he's putting pressure on himself and that contract? Maybe because he missed a year and is still getting back from the OKC Jeff? Clearly something is not right right now. But he's more than decent. I saw it, and I hope I see it again soon.
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I have seen Jeff Green play before and I can say he's more than decent.
I don't know what the problem is right now. Maybe he's stiff because he's putting pressure on himself and that contract? Maybe because he missed a year and is still getting back from the OKC Jeff? Clearly something is not right right now. But he's more than decent. I saw it, and I hope I see it again soon.
I think this Jeff Green is the same player he's always been.
Look at his Per-36 Minutes averages:
2010: 14.7 points
2011: 14.8 points
2011 (OKC): 14.8 points
2011 (BOS): 14.9 points
2013: 14.7 points
Jeff Green is who he is.
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I want to see Doc push him more as a defender and a rebounder.
Jeff Green has to understand he can impact a game in more ways than just scoring.
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Yes if he starts... I rather make this trade tho...
http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6194802
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I do think KG said it best when he said that Doc isn't the easiest coach to play for. And I do believe that, since I don't think it's any coincidence that a lot of players struggle at the beginning under Doc.
Jeff Green is a guy that averaged 16.5 PPG at 22 years old. The guy is more than decent as a player, but I think it's all mental right now. He needs to be assertive and find himself as a player. I think once it "clicks" we could see some really good things.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I agree he won't be a star but I think he will reach the ceiling of a starter for a playoff caliber team.
Yeah, but couldn't any of the top 45 or so SFs start on a playoff caliber team, assuming they were surrounded by the proper teammates?
Keith Bogans, for instance, started 82 games for a team that went 62-20.
Pick 1 to have for 4 years completely healthy, in thier mid to late 20s: Carlos delfino or Jeff Green
That's the kind of thing that has bugged me about Green this year. Before it would've been Green, easy. Now it's harder.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I agree he won't be a star but I think he will reach the ceiling of a starter for a playoff caliber team.
Yeah, but couldn't any of the top 45 or so SFs start on a playoff caliber team, assuming they were surrounded by the proper teammates?
Keith Bogans, for instance, started 82 games for a team that went 62-20.
Ok how about I think his ceiling is the third best player on a playoff team.
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He needs to watch Paul Pierce. Pierce scores almost entirely on savvy and footwork now. Green has all the athleticism he needs and his shot is respectable, but his footwork sucks. He has no ability to change direction with the basketball, and if cut off of his initial drive then he can only throw up a poor shot or a turnover. It makes him ineffective in the iso situations in which the team tries to use him.
I don't know how much he can improve on that. In the meantime, they need to have him moving off of the ball like Bradley. With his length and hops, he should be good for a backdoor alley-oop every night. They just don't use him that way, and I don't know why.
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I'm starting to lose hope.
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I will say that I think his defensive effort is better than I've ever seen it before. He's been a solid-to-good defender in my opinion.
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I see more postive body language , he looks INTO the game, just like LEE, I think Green is trying to make an impact. He still seems rusty and needs to work on his offensive moves to the basket.
If he acted like he didn't care then I'd be worried.
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I think if he started at small forward he would be solid. He has either played out of position (Oklahoma) or as a bench player (Boston) his entire career. His numbers as a small forward are very good. I know this sounds awful but it would be interesting to see what would happen if Pierce had to miss say 4 games or so. Then we could see what Green could do at his natural position with decent minutes.
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I see more postive body language , he looks INTO the game, just like LEE, I think Green is trying to make an impact. He still seems rusty and needs to work on his offensive moves to the basket.
If he acted like he didn't care then I'd be worried.
TP for truth
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He is decent. The real question is "Will Green ever be worth his new 4 year, 45 Million Dollar, contract?" My answer is no. I did a great job of rationalizing the new contract and pumping my self up over the off-season, but now that the games are being played I have to face the facts. It's pretty clear he's the same unagressive, no impact inefficient player he's always been. If Paul Pierce's footwork, and craftiness was easily duplicated he wouldn't be such a special player. It doesn't matter if you have the tools if you don't know how to use them. Green is just one of those guys. IMO, the best thing we can do is trade him for some smaller/shorter more reasonable contracts. I truly do hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
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He is decent. The real question is "Will Green ever be worth his new 4 year, 45 Million Dollar, contract?" My answer is no. I did a great job of rationalizing the new contract and pumping my self up over the off-season, but now that the games are being played it's pretty clear he's the same player he's always been. If Paul Pierce's footwork, and craftiness was easily duplicated he wouldn't be such a special player. It doesn't matter if you have the tools if you don't know how to use them. Green is just one of those guys. IMO, the best thing we can do is trade him for some smaller/shorter more reasonable contracts. I truly do hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
$36m
OMG. What if we owed him $45m.... My whole life flashed before my eyes.
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
A decent backup 3 isn't terribly hard to find, if that's your priority.
At this point, Inwant no parts of Green's contract.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
A decent backup 3 isn't terribly hard to find, if that's your priority.
At this point, Inwant no parts of Green's contract.
Well, let's list some decent backup SFs that are available who want to play for BOS, subbing behind Pierce...
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
A decent backup 3 isn't terribly hard to find, if that's your priority.
At this point, Inwant no parts of Green's contract.
Well, let's list some decent backup SFs that are available who want to play for BOS, subbing behind Pierce...
Well want to is different than 'could be acquired'.
Off the top of my mind,
Chase Buddiger
Jared Dudley
Carlos Delfino
Grant Hill
All come to mind. Every one of those would give similar production or better than what Green is currently offering
Landry Fields is also an ideal candidate, but his contract is just so terrible.
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
A decent backup 3 isn't terribly hard to find, if that's your priority.
At this point, Inwant no parts of Green's contract.
Well, let's list some decent backup SFs that are available who want to play for BOS, subbing behind Pierce...
Well want to is different than 'could be acquired'.
Off the top of my mind,
Chase Buddiger
Jared Dudley
Carlos Delfino
Grant Hill
All come to mind. Every one of those would give similar production or better than what Green is currently offering
Landry Fields is also an ideal candidate, but his contract is just so terrible.
Well, Grant Hill is perhaps done - he's been injured since the preseason.
I'd hate to be Paul Pierce if GH was his sub.
Delfino, while a good scorer, is not known for his defense or athleticism. We wouldn't have won vs OKC (or a few other teams) with Delfino (or Grant Hill, for that matter).
Chase Buddinger and perhaps Dudley intrigue me the most out of who you listed....if I had a choice, it would be Dudley.
But even with that, Jeff Green is maligned playing off the bench - which is his role. I'm certain that of he played with Rondo any significant amount of time, we'd stop wanting to get rid of him.
His contract seems to be an albatross around our necks, but just repost my comments here as soon as Paul Pierce gets dinged up a bit and we insert Uncle Jeff into the lineup:
Rondo
AB
Uncle Jeff
Bass
KG
I can live with that lineup for a bit. He'd need to become a better facilitator, but again I can live with that lineup - especially playing alongside Rondo.
Why do we think that Doc Rivers made his comments here recently - regarding a backup PG? As soon as Jet or whoever can become an effective backup PG, we'll REALLY start to see Jeff Green flourish.
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And while I like Fields a lot, I still prefer Jeff Green.
Fields isn't stopping many people at all.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEg3zQxAOZk
Yes, pls.
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Delfino is actually known for his defense, and hustle play. He's also one of those guys that the rockets cherish (going back to Battier), and would likely not let go without a decent return.
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.
click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom. who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?: http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22 (http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22)
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And while I like Fields a lot, I still prefer Jeff Green.
Fields isn't stopping many people at all.
Fields isn't a small forward. He is a big two guard. There is a big difference between the two of those positions. Fields gets pushed around too easily at the three position both as a defender and as a rebounder. He is an effective defender / rebounder when he has a size advantage over his opponent. Fields needs to remain at the SG position for that to happen.
Toronto should continue to start Pietrus at the small forward position. Pietrus is another big two rather than legit SF but Pietrus has got a lot more physical toughness and can defend the position better than Fields can.
Someone needs to get Fields out of Toronto and back playing at his natural position. It's a shame to see quality players like Fields wasted away by badly managed teams like Toronto.
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no
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Hey, Green took a charge out there. I'd been complaining all season that none of the roleplayers besides Collins and Sullinger try to take charges so it was good to see Green step up and take one. I don't care as much what he does on offense. Despite the Celtics' scoring struggles, they have enough other offensive weapons usually out there with Green that they don't need him to be a scorer. I wish the Green that played the first half in the last game against Milwaukee was more of the norm, the one that caused havoc on defense with his size and speed and turned defense into offense. I'd just like to see more consistent overall energy,
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(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSCh9GJW60B7QQehm2ZneGiUgsrCnQNnKVC_0DAHYBTjF-6VAbE)
Just ask Paul Pierce who spells him while he rests.
Anyone who wants to trade Jeff Green had better have a decent replacement coming back - just not some scrub.
The problem is you don't want a really decent player when Paul Pierce plays 35 minutes or around night in and night out. Name me a star SF being replaced by a really high-caliber player when he goes to the bench. I don't think LBJ, Durant, Carmelo, Gay, or someone that could go in that list has such a replacement.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I completely agree with this. And that's what we signed up for. Many on this blog don't seem to understand that in today's NBA, a decent yet inconsistent 6'10" combo SF/PF with a variety of skills costs $8-9M per year. Just the way it is.
I mean...we did get him (plus Kristic plus a draft pick) for Kendrick Perkins. If we got the next Pierce in that deal, it would have been the trade of the century.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I completely agree with this. And that's what we signed up for. Many on this blog don't seem to understand that in today's NBA, a decent yet inconsistent 6'10" combo SF/PF with a variety of skills costs $8-9M per year. Just the way it is.
I mean...we did get him (plus Kristic plus a draft pick) for Kendrick Perkins. If we got the next Pierce in that deal, it would have been the trade of the century.
Im wondering why we're ok with accepting terms like decent, inconsistent, average, etc. Thats not what I sign a long term contract for. The guy so far this year is a bust. He plays hard when he wants to. He stood around last night most of the time. For as much heat that guys like Terry, Bass, Lee get, I'll say this much, at least they play with some agression. When Green's out there on the court he needs to play like he wants Paul pIerces spot. He plays like he doesnt care. Play like you wanna be here and be the star, and maybe one day you will.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I completely agree with this. And that's what we signed up for. Many on this blog don't seem to understand that in today's NBA, a decent yet inconsistent 6'10" combo SF/PF with a variety of skills costs $8-9M per year. Just the way it is.
I mean...we did get him (plus Kristic plus a draft pick) for Kendrick Perkins. If we got the next Pierce in that deal, it would have been the trade of the century.
A decent, inconsistent player has to cost 8-9 million a year? That's just the way the business of NBA basketball works? And you've come to grips with this before most?
Sure there are inconsistent and decent players who got bad contracts that pay them as much as a Green but good teams try and not make that mistake. A team doesn't have to sign one of those players to a bad contract. It's not the cost of doing business.
Here are the players making about as much as Green:
Biedrins: Bad deal due to heavy deterioration of abilities; not a bad deal at the time though
Nash:More than worth it.
Ryan Anderson: Worth it. And better than decent.
Shawn Marion: Worth it and better than decent
Millsap: Worth it and better than decent
Jameer Nelson: Not having the greatest of seasons thus far but I happen to think he's worth it and been a 8-9 million player or better in the past
Mo Williams: Worth it, solid point and better than decent anyway
Rodney Stuckey: Struggled and probably not worth it. More of a MLE player like Green.
Devin Harris: Not worth it now.
Jeremy Lin: Not worth it thus far, although better lately.
Omer Asik: Oh yes.
Anderson Varejao: Yes again
Thaddeus Young: Very solid player and what I wish Green could be like
Marvin Williams: Nope
Lamar Odom: Besides last season, well worth it
Villaneueva/Tyrus Thomas/John Salmons: No
So anyway, while there are some players making 8-9 million a year who are inconsistent and just decent, even at best, saying that is the norm is wrong. For 8-9 million, many teams are getting their money's worth and more. The quality of the players who get that amount are usually pretty good or better. The badly run teams sign undeserving players to 8-9 million a year. I wish the Celtics didn't number among them.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I completely agree with this. And that's what we signed up for. Many on this blog don't seem to understand that in today's NBA, a decent yet inconsistent 6'10" combo SF/PF with a variety of skills costs $8-9M per year. Just the way it is.
I mean...we did get him (plus Kristic plus a draft pick) for Kendrick Perkins. If we got the next Pierce in that deal, it would have been the trade of the century.
A decent, inconsistent player has to cost 8-9 million a year? That's just the way the business of NBA basketball works? And you've come to grips with this before most?
Sure there are inconsistent and decent players who got bad contracts that pay them as much as a Green but good teams try and not make that mistake. A team doesn't have to sign one of those players to a bad contract. It's not the cost of doing business.
Here are the players making about as much as Green:
Biedrins: Bad deal due to heavy deterioration of abilities; not a bad deal at the time though
Nash:More than worth it.
Ryan Anderson: Worth it. And better than decent.
Shawn Marion: Worth it and better than decent
Millsap: Worth it and better than decent
Jameer Nelson: Not having the greatest of seasons thus far but I happen to think he's worth it and been a 8-9 million player or better in the past
Mo Williams: Worth it, solid point and better than decent anyway
Rodney Stuckey: Struggled and probably not worth it. More of a MLE player like Green.
Devin Harris: Not worth it now.
Jeremy Lin: Not worth it thus far, although better lately.
Omer Asik: Oh yes.
Anderson Varejao: Yes again
Thaddeus Young: Very solid player and what I wish Green could be like
Marvin Williams: Nope
Lamar Odom: Besides last season, well worth it
Villaneueva/Tyrus Thomas/John Salmons: No
So anyway, while there are some players making 8-9 million a year who are inconsistent and just decent, even at best, saying that is the norm is wrong. For 8-9 million, many teams are getting their money's worth and more. The quality of the players who get that amount are usually pretty good or better. The badly run teams sign undeserving players to 8-9 million a year. I wish the Celtics didn't number among them.
Those are all your opinions on those players, and they are all in different scenarios than Green, who is stuck on the bench behind Pierce. And you are simply pulling players paid in his range and comparing him to them. WTH is the comp between Green and Steve Nash?
My point was Green has skills and talents that command that kind of money in the NBA. People on this board seem to think that the Celtics just gave him his contract because he asked for it. He was getting paid $9M BEFORE the heart surgery. There are no doubt a number of teams out there that would pay Green the same amount.
And you just compiled a list of decent-to-good NBA players, not All Stars. Exactly my point.
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My point was Green has skills and talents that command that kind of money in the NBA. People on this board seem to think that the Celtics just gave him his contract because he asked for it. He was getting paid $9M BEFORE the heart surgery. There are no doubt a number of teams out there that would pay Green the same amount.
He is also inconsistent. This is why people do not like him. I do not know if he can adapt to playing off the bench at this point it looks like a huge no.
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Love to see Jeff Green START a game , just to see what he would do. DOc want even give him a chance.
I would like too see how Sully, Green, KG, AB, and Rondo would do STARTING a game for once. Just as a test.
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.
click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom. who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?: http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22 (http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22)
I strongly disagree, and I'm not too concerned with what that stat shows because of Green's role on the team.
To start the season his offense was terrible, his defense was terrible, and his effort was terrible.
At this point in the season his offense is still pretty poor overall, but his effort level, his defense and his rebounding have all improved. If you watched today's game he didn't have a huge role in the offense so he didn't score a lot, but he played good defense and he had a couple of nice hustle plays.
The only areas in Green's game that I'm concerned with at the moment are his ball handling and playmaking. Especially ball handling, which he does really seem to lack confidence with.
Aside from that he is 5th on our team in scoring - after Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Terry, Green is the only other player averaging up around double figures (9.6 PPG).
As the 5th best offensive player on our team and the best defender we have against bigger SF's, he's an important piece to this team.
I'm honeslty not too concerned about his box score production as long as he plays with effort and plays solid defense, and lately he's been doing that.
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Jeff Green is already decent. The problem is that he'll probably never be much more than that.
A lot of fans seem to have talked themselves into believing that Green will eventually become a star-level player, a capable replacement for Paul Pierce. That's not happening. Green will show flashes of brilliance, but I think he'll always be an inconsistent player.
I completely agree with this. And that's what we signed up for. Many on this blog don't seem to understand that in today's NBA, a decent yet inconsistent 6'10" combo SF/PF with a variety of skills costs $8-9M per year. Just the way it is.
I mean...we did get him (plus Kristic plus a draft pick) for Kendrick Perkins. If we got the next Pierce in that deal, it would have been the trade of the century.
A decent, inconsistent player has to cost 8-9 million a year? That's just the way the business of NBA basketball works? And you've come to grips with this before most?
Sure there are inconsistent and decent players who got bad contracts that pay them as much as a Green but good teams try and not make that mistake. A team doesn't have to sign one of those players to a bad contract. It's not the cost of doing business.
Here are the players making about as much as Green:
Biedrins: Bad deal due to heavy deterioration of abilities; not a bad deal at the time though
Nash:More than worth it.
Ryan Anderson: Worth it. And better than decent.
Shawn Marion: Worth it and better than decent
Millsap: Worth it and better than decent
Jameer Nelson: Not having the greatest of seasons thus far but I happen to think he's worth it and been a 8-9 million player or better in the past
Mo Williams: Worth it, solid point and better than decent anyway
Rodney Stuckey: Struggled and probably not worth it. More of a MLE player like Green.
Devin Harris: Not worth it now.
Jeremy Lin: Not worth it thus far, although better lately.
Omer Asik: Oh yes.
Anderson Varejao: Yes again
Thaddeus Young: Very solid player and what I wish Green could be like
Marvin Williams: Nope
Lamar Odom: Besides last season, well worth it
Villaneueva/Tyrus Thomas/John Salmons: No
So anyway, while there are some players making 8-9 million a year who are inconsistent and just decent, even at best, saying that is the norm is wrong. For 8-9 million, many teams are getting their money's worth and more. The quality of the players who get that amount are usually pretty good or better. The badly run teams sign undeserving players to 8-9 million a year. I wish the Celtics didn't number among them.
Those are all your opinions on those players, and they are all in different scenarios than Green, who is stuck on the bench behind Pierce. And you are simply pulling players paid in his range and comparing him to them. WTH is the comp between Green and Steve Nash?
My point was Green has skills and talents that command that kind of money in the NBA. People on this board seem to think that the Celtics just gave him his contract because he asked for it. He was getting paid $9M BEFORE the heart surgery. There are no doubt a number of teams out there that would pay Green the same amount.
And you just compiled a list of decent-to-good NBA players, not All Stars. Exactly my point.
I pulled the list of players currently making about as much as Green. Of course those were my opinions of those players but a lot of teams are getting pretty good bang for their 9 million or so. A majority of those players are better than Green. Green is in the company of Marvin Williams, Villanueva, even Tyrus Thomas. To state the obvious, that's not good company. It's possible that another team or teams may have offered Green the same amount of years and money but those would've been bad teams. The Celtics should not be making decisions like a bad team.
Does Green being a 6'9 SF/PF hybrid (well in name or on paper only; he's not playing PF anymore and that's a good thing for the Celtics unless Bass is) mean the Celtics have to pay a premium? On one hand, maybe 9 million is the going rate for 6'9 hybrid types if you go by Villaneuva, Marvin Williams and Tyrus Thomas but again, that's the going rate bad teams dish out.
You're correct that Green was going to get 9 million before having heart surgery but that was on an one year deal. There's only limited risk on an one-year deal so you can overpay. I never thought Ainge would dish out that much over 4 years. It's not even about the money. What's done has been done. I was more upset that the Celtics decided Green was the type of player they wanted. I much rather have role players who have one top skill and/or play with energy. If they valued Green as a long-term player, it's alarming.
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I think he already is a decent player. The question is whether he will become a good player.
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Everybody complaining about the amount of his contract has to understand that Ainge was going to sign him [pretty much] no matter what, as we were going to go over the salary cap and we would have lost him for nothing. I get that four years is probably two too many, but apparently that was the going rate.
Green always has been and always will be at least a decent player and starting caliber player. He still does have potential, but even that is starting to pewter out. Would I like to see Green start a few games? Of course, but not really at the expense of Pierce.
If Green ever becomes an all-star, it would be a great success story, but his contract isn't 'horrible' and we were lucky enough to have the luxury of signing him...and frankly, I still believe he is a very tradeable asset.
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Everybody complaining about the amount of his contract has to understand that Ainge was going to sign him [pretty much] no matter what, as we were going to go over the salary cap and we would have lost him for nothing. I get that four years is probably two too many, but apparently that was the going rate.
Green always has been and always will be at least a decent player and starting caliber player. He still does have potential, but even that is starting to pewter out. Would I like to see Green start a few games? Of course, but not really at the expense of Pierce.
If Green ever becomes an all-star, it would be a great success story, but his contract isn't 'horrible' and we were lucky enough to have the luxury of signing him...and frankly, I still believe he is a very tradeable asset.
I think the issue has been 1a) people doubting that that was the going rate and 1b) people questioning whether he was worth it if it was.
There's a reason agents earn what they earn.
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Everybody complaining about the amount of his contract has to understand that Ainge was going to sign him [pretty much] no matter what, as we were going to go over the salary cap and we would have lost him for nothing. I get that four years is probably two too many, but apparently that was the going rate.
Green always has been and always will be at least a decent player and starting caliber player. He still does have potential, but even that is starting to pewter out. Would I like to see Green start a few games? Of course, but not really at the expense of Pierce.
If Green ever becomes an all-star, it would be a great success story, but his contract isn't 'horrible' and we were lucky enough to have the luxury of signing him...and frankly, I still believe he is a very tradeable asset.
I think the issue has been 1a) people doubting that that was the going rate and 1b) people questioning whether he was worth it if it was.
There's a reason agents earn what they earn.
1a) and 1b) I don't know why people care really.
I only care about is does he improve this team, does his addition prevent us from improving our team, and does he has trade value at any point of his contract? Would the alternative to signing him improve our team?
Considering those, I have no problem with signing Green, in fact, it was a good move regardless of the price tag he has at the moment, which I see as more the manageable.
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Every player on a Championship team is not an all star. I just want Green to overcome his reticence and put forth the effort to be a bit more aggressive. If he does that, IMO, he will be worth his contract. I realize it takes time to get over the psychological effects of heart surgery. Everyone knows he has the talent to do it.
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1a) and 1b) I don't know why people care really.
I only care about is does he improve this team, does his addition prevent us from improving our team, and does he has trade value at any point of his contract? Would the alternative to signing him improve our team?
Considering those, I have no problem with signing Green, in fact, it was a good move regardless of the price tag he has at the moment, which I see as more the manageable.
-Not very much. Possibly slightly.
-Yes, definitely. We are at a defacto hard cap that makes trades much more difficult. Also decreases future capspace for 4 years. The attitude of "we were over the cap anyway" is why the knicks sucked so bad for so long until someone bit the bullet and gutted long term contracts. You can always justify "1 more contract because we're over the cap" every single year and it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of no escape.
-Very little. Maybe in the last year, though it seems there are always bunches of teams with expirings. Maybe trade filler as a large contract to combine with actual positive assets like rookies/picks. Like a more expensive Scal.
-Probably, if the alternative was working out several other FA SFs, signing one cheap, then being able to add a player midseason by more trade flexibility and/or improved offseason flexibility.
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Yes by next season. We unfortunately do not have enough talent to wait around for him. He needs lots of work.
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1a) and 1b) I don't know why people care really.
I only care about is does he improve this team, does his addition prevent us from improving our team, and does he has trade value at any point of his contract? Would the alternative to signing him improve our team?
Considering those, I have no problem with signing Green, in fact, it was a good move regardless of the price tag he has at the moment, which I see as more the manageable.
-Not very much. Possibly slightly.
-Yes, definitely. We are at a defacto hard cap that makes trades much more difficult. Also decreases future capspace for 4 years. The attitude of "we were over the cap anyway" is why the knicks sucked so bad for so long until someone bit the bullet and gutted long term contracts. You can always justify "1 more contract because we're over the cap" every single year and it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of no escape.
-Very little. Maybe in the last year, though it seems there are always bunches of teams with expirings. Maybe trade filler as a large contract to combine with actual positive assets like rookies/picks. Like a more expensive Scal.
-Probably, if the alternative was working out several other FA SFs, signing one cheap, then being able to add a player midseason by more trade flexibility and/or improved offseason flexibility.
1. I disagree.
2. This ignores our current goals, our roster make-up, and how all our contracts are structured in the coming years.
3. I see no problem with that. It's im that year where the need to trade him will be.
4. We're building a championship contender. You don't pass up on Green for the possibility of a mid-season trade with our limited assestd as it is and our thin SF depth. Nothing stops Ainge from signing cheaper alternatives, even with Green, but himself.
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1a) and 1b) I don't know why people care really.
I only care about is does he improve this team, does his addition prevent us from improving our team, and does he has trade value at any point of his contract? Would the alternative to signing him improve our team?
Considering those, I have no problem with signing Green, in fact, it was a good move regardless of the price tag he has at the moment, which I see as more the manageable.
-Not very much. Possibly slightly.
-Yes, definitely. We are at a defacto hard cap that makes trades much more difficult. Also decreases future capspace for 4 years. The attitude of "we were over the cap anyway" is why the knicks sucked so bad for so long until someone bit the bullet and gutted long term contracts. You can always justify "1 more contract because we're over the cap" every single year and it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of no escape.
-Very little. Maybe in the last year, though it seems there are always bunches of teams with expirings. Maybe trade filler as a large contract to combine with actual positive assets like rookies/picks. Like a more expensive Scal.
-Probably, if the alternative was working out several other FA SFs, signing one cheap, then being able to add a player midseason by more trade flexibility and/or improved offseason flexibility.
1. I disagree.
2. This ignores our current goals, our roster make-up, and how all our contracts are structured in the coming years.
3. I see no problem with that. It's im that year where the need to trade him will be.
4. We're building a championship contender. You don't pass up on Green for the possibility of a mid-season trade with our limited assestd as it is and our thin SF depth. Nothing stops Ainge from signing cheaper alternatives, even with Green, but himself.
Except the problem is that Green has proven over years, different teams, different coaches, different levels of competition that he is exactly the same player: OK scoring, below average rebounding, below average defense, below average playmaking. That profile is not only easily replaceable by motivated D-Leaguers, but probably surpassable by someone who is actually really good at 1 or 2 things (like a good defense/good corner three guy for 800K per year). He has nothing at all that warrrants several millions over a replacement SF, unless you're a sucker for his "potential," of which he has shown no indication of tapping with utterly unchanged production across years and situations.
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1a) and 1b) I don't know why people care really.
I only care about is does he improve this team, does his addition prevent us from improving our team, and does he has trade value at any point of his contract? Would the alternative to signing him improve our team?
Considering those, I have no problem with signing Green, in fact, it was a good move regardless of the price tag he has at the moment, which I see as more the manageable.
-Not very much. Possibly slightly.
-Yes, definitely. We are at a defacto hard cap that makes trades much more difficult. Also decreases future capspace for 4 years. The attitude of "we were over the cap anyway" is why the knicks sucked so bad for so long until someone bit the bullet and gutted long term contracts. You can always justify "1 more contract because we're over the cap" every single year and it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of no escape.
-Very little. Maybe in the last year, though it seems there are always bunches of teams with expirings. Maybe trade filler as a large contract to combine with actual positive assets like rookies/picks. Like a more expensive Scal.
-Probably, if the alternative was working out several other FA SFs, signing one cheap, then being able to add a player midseason by more trade flexibility and/or improved offseason flexibility.
1. I disagree.
2. This ignores our current goals, our roster make-up, and how all our contracts are structured in the coming years.
3. I see no problem with that. It's im that year where the need to trade him will be.
4. We're building a championship contender. You don't pass up on Green for the possibility of a mid-season trade with our limited assestd as it is and our thin SF depth. Nothing stops Ainge from signing cheaper alternatives, even with Green, but himself.
Except the problem is that Green has proven over years, different teams, different coaches, different levels of competition that he is exactly the same player: OK scoring, below average rebounding, below average defense, below average playmaking. That profile is not only easily replaceable by motivated D-Leaguers, but probably surpassable by someone who is actually really good at 1 or 2 things (like a good defense/good corner three guy for 800K per year). He has nothing at all that warrrants several millions over a replacement SF, unless you're a sucker for his "potential," of which he has shown no indication of tapping with utterly unchanged production across years and situations.
I think he's a good player to have behind Pierce, nothing more, nothing less.
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Just to give people some perspective, because everyone here is just throwing around vague qualifiers like "decent" and "good" and "talented" without backing them up, here are some Jeff Green facts on the season.
-He is a bad rebounder. You can argue it is improving, but it is still bad. His rebounding percentage is HALF the league average for small forwards. 6 per 48 instead of 11 per 48.
-He turns the ball over too much. He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season. Hell, he has more turnovers than assists and steals combined for the season. That is not acceptable.
-The turnover numbers are even more startling when you realize that Jeff Green is actually a good defender, as other people in this thread have noted. He is getting a good number of steals and blocks (yes, his per game averages are low, because he doesn't play a lot of minutes. If you adjust for minutes played, he is getting steals and blocks at an above average rate). He also doesn't foul that much. So he is a good defender.
-He is not passing well. He has never been a great passer, but he has usually been at least average in terms of assist ratio and percentage. This season he is pretty abysmal. He is getting 0.8 assists per game; if you adjust for minutes played, the league SF average for assists is 1.4. I know that isn't a huge difference, but considering that he is also averaging 1.4 turnovers per game WITHOUT adjusting for minutes you realize what the problem is.
-His shooting is terrible. A hair below 42% from the field, 33% from 3, and a TS% of 50.5%. The league average for small forwards in those categories? 47%, 35%, and 53%. Also, he only gets 1.13 PPS , well below the league average of 1.22.
-Although he is a very good free throw shooter, he doesn't get to the line very often. He is overing just around the league average in free throw attempts per game, and considering that so far free throws are the only way he can score efficiently he needs to draw more fouls.
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Sadly at this point, I think he is what he is.
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Decent is all he'll ever be. He's done making any more significant improvements.
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I wish we had resigned JG to a 1 year deal. Signing him for four was such a big mistake.
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He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season.
I'm not sure that this particular metric is all that useful.
Players on the Celtics with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Jason Terry
Notable players league-wide with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Russell Westrbook
Kobe Bryant
Deron Williams
Steph Curry
James Harden
In fact, Jeff Green's roughly 1:1 ratio is better than all of the above guys. That's not to say that he's amazing player. Rather, that particular stat just doesn't tell us very much at all.
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I just think, sadly, that some of us are ate up about his contract and all.
Just remember this post - "When Paul Pierce needs a few games off for rest/injury, etc - Jeff Green's signing will be more than worth it."
I'm confident of that.
I'm excited to see him playing significant minutes next to Rondo and AB in the future.
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Right now Jeff Green is not a starting player in the NBA (unless he is playing next to Kevin Durant). He could be a decent role player, but sadly he does not have the coordination and Bball IQ to create on his own. He can jump high and run fast but this does not make him a first class athelete. "athleticism" is overrated by some.
I think Courtney Lee has a higher ceiling undfortunately.
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I look at the acquisition of Jeff Green in two parts...I dont think we'll see his true value until the playoffs/in the future.
1. we have Kevin Garnett for the next 3 years..meaning likely we go with Pierce for those as well unless he retires. surely Pierce is going to need his minutes scaled back. and that requires a solid backup.
2. for the Knicks/Miami's who love to play small-ball with Melo/Lebron at the 4. it was clear last year that Pietrus wasnt cutting it...if he can improve as a defender(and it seems he has). you can stick him on Melo/Lebron..which means Pierce can focus more energy on offense(and Green provides more offense than a pietrus)
either way, we are in "Win-now" mode so I dont see the big deal about green's contract. and I would think if we want to Ainge could trade him...a 26Y/o SF who can average 15ppg given starting minutes? theres teams who will want that.
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He is decent. The real question is "Will Green ever be worth his new 4 year, 45 Million Dollar, contract?" My answer is no. I did a great job of rationalizing the new contract and pumping my self up over the off-season, but now that the games are being played it's pretty clear he's the same player he's always been. If Paul Pierce's footwork, and craftiness was easily duplicated he wouldn't be such a special player. It doesn't matter if you have the tools if you don't know how to use them. Green is just one of those guys. IMO, the best thing we can do is trade him for some smaller/shorter more reasonable contracts. I truly do hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
$36m
OMG. What if we owed him $45m.... My whole life flashed before my eyes.
Thanks for the correction. I was thinking 5 years 9 mil, but put the wrong amount of years. He's still not work the contract either way.
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Yes, yes I do. I also want to tell you that your thread backfired real bad because more than half the people voted yes...
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I look at the acquisition of Jeff Green in two parts...I dont think we'll see his true value until the playoffs/in the future.
1. we have Kevin Garnett for the next 3 years..meaning likely we go with Pierce for those as well unless he retires. surely Pierce is going to need his minutes scaled back. and that requires a solid backup.
2. for the Knicks/Miami's who love to play small-ball with Melo/Lebron at the 4. it was clear last year that Pietrus wasnt cutting it...if he can improve as a defender(and it seems he has). you can stick him on Melo/Lebron..which means Pierce can focus more energy on offense(and Green provides more offense than a pietrus)
either way, we are in "Win-now" mode so I dont see the big deal about green's contract. and I would think if we want to Ainge could trade him...a 26Y/o SF who can average 15ppg given starting minutes? theres teams who will want that.
I agree with this post... Green is slowly putting together a decent game. I was impatient too, I've come to realize , this health issues and now mental issues of getting over his heart issue is a major hurtle or more than we fans can appreciate. I'm sure its hard to play with reckless abandon when you've been though all that. Hoping by playoffs he can be counted on to contribute more and more steady. Still a better deal than Royce White.
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Green is playing decent Defense and I agree that it is critical for the C's to have someone like him in their lineup for all the big wings in the league (Lebron, Carmelo, Durant).
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Just to give people some perspective, because everyone here is just throwing around vague qualifiers like "decent" and "good" and "talented" without backing them up, here are some Jeff Green facts on the season.
-He is a bad rebounder. You can argue it is improving, but it is still bad. His rebounding percentage is HALF the league average for small forwards. 6 per 48 instead of 11 per 48.
-He turns the ball over too much. He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season. Hell, he has more turnovers than assists and steals combined for the season. That is not acceptable.
-The turnover numbers are even more startling when you realize that Jeff Green is actually a good defender, as other people in this thread have noted. He is getting a good number of steals and blocks (yes, his per game averages are low, because he doesn't play a lot of minutes. If you adjust for minutes played, he is getting steals and blocks at an above average rate). He also doesn't foul that much. So he is a good defender.
-He is not passing well. He has never been a great passer, but he has usually been at least average in terms of assist ratio and percentage. This season he is pretty abysmal. He is getting 0.8 assists per game; if you adjust for minutes played, the league SF average for assists is 1.4. I know that isn't a huge difference, but considering that he is also averaging 1.4 turnovers per game WITHOUT adjusting for minutes you realize what the problem is.
-His shooting is terrible. A hair below 42% from the field, 33% from 3, and a TS% of 50.5%. The league average for small forwards in those categories? 47%, 35%, and 53%. Also, he only gets 1.13 PPS , well below the league average of 1.22.
-Although he is a very good free throw shooter, he doesn't get to the line very often. He is overing just around the league average in free throw attempts per game, and considering that so far free throws are the only way he can score efficiently he needs to draw more fouls.
This tells you all you need to know about Jeff Green. He is a 5-year guy who still has potential.
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Just to give people some perspective, because everyone here is just throwing around vague qualifiers like "decent" and "good" and "talented" without backing them up, here are some Jeff Green facts on the season.
-He is a bad rebounder. You can argue it is improving, but it is still bad. His rebounding percentage is HALF the league average for small forwards. 6 per 48 instead of 11 per 48.
-He turns the ball over too much. He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season. Hell, he has more turnovers than assists and steals combined for the season. That is not acceptable.
-The turnover numbers are even more startling when you realize that Jeff Green is actually a good defender, as other people in this thread have noted. He is getting a good number of steals and blocks (yes, his per game averages are low, because he doesn't play a lot of minutes. If you adjust for minutes played, he is getting steals and blocks at an above average rate). He also doesn't foul that much. So he is a good defender.
-He is not passing well. He has never been a great passer, but he has usually been at least average in terms of assist ratio and percentage. This season he is pretty abysmal. He is getting 0.8 assists per game; if you adjust for minutes played, the league SF average for assists is 1.4. I know that isn't a huge difference, but considering that he is also averaging 1.4 turnovers per game WITHOUT adjusting for minutes you realize what the problem is.
-His shooting is terrible. A hair below 42% from the field, 33% from 3, and a TS% of 50.5%. The league average for small forwards in those categories? 47%, 35%, and 53%. Also, he only gets 1.13 PPS , well below the league average of 1.22.
-Although he is a very good free throw shooter, he doesn't get to the line very often. He is overing just around the league average in free throw attempts per game, and considering that so far free throws are the only way he can score efficiently he needs to draw more fouls.
This tells you all you need to know about Jeff Green. He is a 5-year guy who still has potential.
And will still probably be full of potential when he leaves :-\. Id like to see the JG from pre season show up, and i dont take this stuff about him needing to start. WHen Jordan when out, it becasme Pippen's team. Green could do the same thing and has shown flashes. I dont know maybe he has attention problems and gets lost somewhere on the court. Last night I think he was thinking about what they had at the concession stands all night long/
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There are folks here who still think GERALD Green has potential mostly because he's not currently a Celtic and because we didn't sign him to a bad contract . Give Jeff some credit -- he has proven himself a decent NBA player already.
My wish is that he (and we) forget about the contract. He is getting paid regardless of mpg, ppg, rpg, etc. What I want him to do is to use Avery Bradley as a model. Avery's approach is electric. He is dedicated to giving 100% every time he is on the court, and his philosophy is right on target: You will have off-games offensively but you do not EVER have to have an off-game defensively.
If JG can focus on defensive effort and rebounds, his approach to the game will be different -- and I suspect less stressful. His game will be more under his control and his offense will happen when it happens. And this is the team that he can do that on. Can't if he's on the Suns or the Raptors.
Green can reach his potential not through his offense but through his defense and aggresiveness on the boards. He does seem a bit more active defensively now than earlier in the year -- but my thinking is that defense and boards should be his focus (boards as in 'strive for 5').
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He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season.
I'm not sure that this particular metric is all that useful.
Players on the Celtics with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Jason Terry
Notable players league-wide with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Russell Westrbook
Kobe Bryant
Deron Williams
Steph Curry
James Harden
In fact, Jeff Green's roughly 1:1 ratio is better than all of the above guys. That's not to say that he's amazing player. Rather, that particular stat just doesn't tell us very much at all.
Roy just served that due NICELY with reality. Dumb down analyzers these days, smh
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.
click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom. who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?: http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22 (http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22)
I strongly disagree, and I'm not too concerned with what that stat shows because of Green's role on the team.
To start the season his offense was terrible, his defense was terrible, and his effort was terrible.
At this point in the season his offense is still pretty poor overall, but his effort level, his defense and his rebounding have all improved. If you watched today's game he didn't have a huge role in the offense so he didn't score a lot, but he played good defense and he had a couple of nice hustle plays.
The only areas in Green's game that I'm concerned with at the moment are his ball handling and playmaking. Especially ball handling, which he does really seem to lack confidence with.
Aside from that he is 5th on our team in scoring - after Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Terry, Green is the only other player averaging up around double figures (9.6 PPG).
As the 5th best offensive player on our team and the best defender we have against bigger SF's, he's an important piece to this team.
I'm honeslty not too concerned about his box score production as long as he plays with effort and plays solid defense, and lately he's been doing that.
the metric that i posted actually determines a players influence regardless of whether they get lots of playing time or not. thats why last season, playing about the same amound of minutes, and getting no plays called for him, kenneth farieds metric showed he was a beast. thats why it shows jared sullinger, who again is having no plays called for him - as a rookie, is way, way, way more influential than jeff green. the only expaination that he's all the way down there is that every single small forward bar two have more plays called for them?
put it this way: if you separated the emotional attachment you have to him being a celtic, and thus being invested in his development, and he was playing for another team, would you still think what you think?
danny will trade him. he's horrible.
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.
click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom. who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?: http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22 (http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22)
da hell is wins per 48? lol irrelevant stats stay gettin thrown around on here
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He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.
He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.
He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.
Worth the contact no, but he's solid.
actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.
click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom. who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?: http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22 (http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22)
da hell is wins per 48? lol irrelevant stats stay gettin thrown around on here
actually, it's the best metric to figure out how good a player is. pretty sure the san antonio spurs use it. you just must not be aware of it, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant.
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I voted yes, but not sure its going to happen in Boston.
IMHO JGreen is a starter. Also, he is better facing the basket than he is posting up. He is incredibly good when given the ball in the 3pt line top of the key area - and let him start the offense that way.
The way Doc uses Jeff G as a decoy in the corner is a waste of talent IMHO.
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Any per minute statistic is only good for trend reporting. Conclusions based on per minute stats are irrelevant.
For example, based on this season's WS48, Jason Kidd and Jose Calderon are in the top 3 best Point Guards. Forgive me, but Rondo is clearly better.
I like total win shares as a statistical measurement, it makes KG the best player in the post-Jordan (Bulls) era.
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YES. he already is more than a decent player.
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I voted yes, but not sure its going to happen in Boston.
IMHO JGreen is a starter. Also, he is better facing the basket than he is posting up. He is incredibly good when given the ball in the 3pt line top of the key area - and let him start the offense that way.
The way Doc uses Jeff G as a decoy in the corner is a waste of talent IMHO.
i haven't voted but jeff as a sf on the box is just about unguardable if that is in fact a word
anyone realize he is averaging just under 10 pts a game in the flow of the game, hardly any plays are being called for him
he is part of the next group with avery, rondo and sully i'd say, sign a top notch free agent with pp and kg money coming off books and that is a club
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Any per minute statistic is only good for trend reporting. Conclusions based on per minute stats are irrelevant.
For example, based on this season's WS48, Jason Kidd and Jose Calderon are in the top 3 best Point Guards. Forgive me, but Rondo is clearly better.
I like total win shares as a statistical measurement, it makes KG the best player in the post-Jordan (Bulls) era.
yeah, i like win shares too, but as far as i understand it, it isn't fully fair because it gives the advantage to players who play lots of minutes, like john holingers per gives the advantage to those who take lots of shots.
actually, i totally think that if you were to look at rondo's position adjusted wins per 48 during last years playoffs he was actually pretty much the best player, with his paw48 being on par with lebrons. he was playing superstar level basketball.
i think during the regular season rondo has always backed off. every. single. year... and then in the playoffs he goes into overdrive. every. single. year. perhaps during the regular season kidd and calderon are playing better, but when it counts - rondo is actually as influential to a game as lebron.
and just by the by, i dont think it's a coincidence that new york start playing well the year they sign jason kidd.
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Jeff Green is a decent player. In fact he is pretty much the player he has always been. A solid sixth man/spot starter. That is what he has been his entire career and he is producing at that rate again this year. I have no idea where this notion that Jeff Green was going to be a superstar came from. There is five years of stats that tell you that will never happen.
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And i have no idea why people think he was so much better in OKC. Or why he would be so much better with more minutes. Or so much better as a starter. Or so much better after he heals from surgery. Or so much better after he becomes more comfortable. The list could go on and it's all ridiculous to me.
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Jeff Geen = Adam Morrison. Possibly <
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Trick question.
Jeff Green is a decent player. He is not a great player or even a very good player. He probably bobs somewhere between good and below average depending upon his variable effort and that overall equates to a decent player.
But he is getting paid to be more than decent and for some reason over half the people on this site expect him to be something that in 5 years in the league, he has never shown himself to be.
He is not a player to build a future team around.
He is not going to be any more productive on a per minute basis with more minutes.
He is not someone you want to initiate an offense or be the main weapon in an offense.
He is not someone that is going to give you even good rebounding numbers, or consistent defense, or consistent effort or consistent results.
He is what he is and that is a very incomplete player with an inconsistency that can be maddening.
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I'd rather have Harry Potter despite the notable disadvantage of being fictional
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He will never get any better. Great win tonight and he again is a non-factor
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He needs to be traded. I would take back a bad contract or two to entice teams to grab him. He has almost a zero value right now. Its also sad to watch a player lack so much confidence as he does now. I do wish him well but i don't think it will be with us. Maybe with another team, he may do better.
One of the only trade that i think is possible right now would be
to GSW: Green + contract fill in
To Bos: Bidrins and Richard Jefferson
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Green is on the HOT seat for trading now I think...Melo has proven he is gonna be better with time.
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He needs to be traded. I would take back a bad contract or two to entice teams to grab him.
How do you feel about taking back John Salmons or Tyrus Thomas?
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I 'd trade Green for Pau Gasol....Green would make an excellent Laker. Gasol would fit nice on the Celtics.
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I look at the acquisition of Jeff Green in two parts...I dont think we'll see his true value until the playoffs/in the future.
1. we have Kevin Garnett for the next 3 years..meaning likely we go with Pierce for those as well unless he retires. surely Pierce is going to need his minutes scaled back. and that requires a solid backup.
2. for the Knicks/Miami's who love to play small-ball with Melo/Lebron at the 4. it was clear last year that Pietrus wasnt cutting it...if he can improve as a defender(and it seems he has). you can stick him on Melo/Lebron..which means Pierce can focus more energy on offense(and Green provides more offense than a pietrus)
either way, we are in "Win-now" mode so I dont see the big deal about green's contract. and I would think if we want to Ainge could trade him...a 26Y/o SF who can average 15ppg given starting minutes? theres teams who will want that.
Green was huge for me in 2k12 guarding Lebron in the playoffs. ;D
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I voted no b/c I don't think you mean "decent", he already is... if I think he still can become better than he has shown in his career, no. I did before the season but that was the Kool-Aid I was drinking. I still like Green but now I just give up my fantasy of him being huge for us... I'm not even going to waste my time talking about his bad play in chat after tonight (hopefully I will remember but I hate when people look like they don't care what's going on out there so I may slip up lol)! I'm not going to get too excited for his good games and not too down with his indifferent ones. It's my own fault for getting so excited about the possibility of a really good player in Green... I don't blame Green for fooling me, he didn't... but I do blame him for his effort. I just don't see how he can play so bad when EVERYONE else feeds off of AB and steps their games up... Green has been the only oddball in these last 2 games. The only reason Green gets minutes at all is b/c of probably his contract and b/c Doc HAS to rest PP and Green is the only option b/c I think if there was someone like Pietrus on the team Green would be stuck in the doghouse... look how AB was stuck on the bench when Doc had other options.
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He needs to be traded. I would take back a bad contract or two to entice teams to grab him.
How do you feel about taking back John Salmons or Tyrus Thomas?
Not sure on either based on a few things
1. Salmons is a much more consistent player. But he is also 33, going onto 34 years of age. And has three more years left at around 7-8 million a year
2. Tyrus Thomas is riding the scal spot of the bench right now. He has a bad attitude/suspect work ethic, but tremendous raw skills, athleticism. He comes off as a guy , after his 3 years remaining at 8-9 millions, to quit the nba and enjoy/move on with his life. The heart and passion is not there. Now if he is in a different environment, and kg is screaming down his throat , maybe he will actually try.
Green lacks confidence, but he doesn't have an attitude issue and is still young enough. Its a tough call if i would make a trade for either of these guys bc of the reasons above.
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Green is decent....average, but not more. I had hopes for him this year, but they didn't pan out - what we see is what we will get.
Nonetheless, he does have a role - backup Pierce. We've been lucky that Paul has played every game, and averaged 34 mins or so, at the tender age of 35. I don't think we'll be that lucky over the remainder of the year, and if/when Paul misses time, we'll really need Jeff to step up. I also like the lineup of having both Pierce and Green in at the same time, playing 2/3. Green can keep up with opposing 2s if Paul can't, or take the quicker 3s.
I've stopped wishing for more....Green is who he is....