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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: No Nickname on July 08, 2017, 09:37:19 AM

Title: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: No Nickname on July 08, 2017, 09:37:19 AM
Since Bradley makes more than Morris we have more money going out. I think I read the C's needed to cut around $300K in order to give Hayward the max?

If there's a few million dollars difference now would the C's be able to sign another FA into that cap space, with an amount that's higher than the veteran's minimum? Perhaps someone like Bogut?

Thanks!
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on July 08, 2017, 09:50:14 AM
I had this same curiosity. Do we have the MLE now?
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Surferdad on July 08, 2017, 09:50:25 AM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: tazzmaniac on July 08, 2017, 09:51:41 AM
We have the room exception which is slightly above 4M. 
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on July 08, 2017, 10:16:16 AM
TP Tazz.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: No Nickname on July 08, 2017, 10:35:16 AM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

I thought we only had to trim about $300K?  Shouldn't that leave an extra $2.7M and then ALSO the Room Exception?

Probably not but curious how the math truly works out here and how the Room Exception actually works.

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: jambr380 on July 08, 2017, 10:39:43 AM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

I thought we only had to trim about $300K?  Shouldn't that leave an extra $2.7M and then ALSO the Room Exception?

Probably not but curious how the math truly works out here and how the Room Exception actually works.

Thanks guys!

That was assuming we traded Rozier and Jackson for no returning salary. They are both still on the team so you need to take that into account.

At this point, I don't see how Jackson is on the roster on opening night, but it's not like he is a hot commodity - we may just need to pay off his guarantee and move on.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Roy H. on July 08, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

I thought we only had to trim about $300K?  Shouldn't that leave an extra $2.7M and then ALSO the Room Exception?

Probably not but curious how the math truly works out here and how the Room Exception actually works.

Thanks guys!

The most likely thing we do with the extra cap room is bring over Yabu, I think.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Boris Badenov on July 08, 2017, 10:46:40 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/1s6gop.jpg)
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: No Nickname on July 08, 2017, 11:25:14 AM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

I thought we only had to trim about $300K?  Shouldn't that leave an extra $2.7M and then ALSO the Room Exception?

Probably not but curious how the math truly works out here and how the Room Exception actually works.

Thanks guys!

That was assuming we traded Rozier and Jackson for no returning salary. They are both still on the team so you need to take that into account.

At this point, I don't see how Jackson is on the roster on opening night, but it's not like he is a hot commodity - we may just need to pay off his guarantee and move on.

Ah, thanks!  So if we cut Jackson then we'd probably have enough space to bring over Yabusele?  I liked what I saw from him last Summer League.  He had a good understanding of the pick and roll offense (and pick and pop).  His style looked like he'd be a perfect Spurs player.

I imagine Nader will get a roster spot, Ojeleye will go to the G-League, and Yabu will be here.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: TheSundanceKid on July 08, 2017, 12:11:27 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

I thought we only had to trim about $300K?  Shouldn't that leave an extra $2.7M and then ALSO the Room Exception?

Probably not but curious how the math truly works out here and how the Room Exception actually works.

Thanks guys!

That was assuming we traded Rozier and Jackson for no returning salary. They are both still on the team so you need to take that into account.

At this point, I don't see how Jackson is on the roster on opening night, but it's not like he is a hot commodity - we may just need to pay off his guarantee and move on.

Ah, thanks!  So if we cut Jackson then we'd probably have enough space to bring over Yabusele?  I liked what I saw from him last Summer League.  He had a good understanding of the pick and roll offense (and pick and pop).  His style looked like he'd be a perfect Spurs player.

I imagine Nader will get a roster spot, Ojeleye will go to the G-League, and Yabu will be here.
It's actually cheaper to keep Jackson than waive him. If we do anything with him it'll be trade.

I don't know why reporters are saying Yab can now come over, that would only be true if we also get rid of Rozier and at this point I don't think that will happen
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: KGs Knee on July 08, 2017, 12:57:34 PM
It appears Boston can now sign Hayward to the full 30% max, as well as sign Yabusele, and keep Rozier.

The Celtics have the following salaries currently on the books:

Al Horford --   27,734,405
Jae Crowder --   6,796,117
Isaiah Thomas --   6,261,395
Marcus Morris --   5,000,000
Jaylen Brown --   4,956,480
Marcus Smart --   4,538,020
Terry Rozier --   1,988,520
Ante Zizic --   1,645,200
Jordan Mickey --   1,471,382
Demetrius Jackson --   1,384,750
Jayson Tatum --   5,645,400
   
Total --   67,421,669

By waiving Mickey and adding in two empty roster charges ($815,615 ea.), the Celtics would be at $67,581,517 in salary, leaving them with $31,511,483 in cap space.  A max contract for Hayward is $29,727,900 meaning after he is signed Boston would still have $2,599,198 in cap space remaining, enough to sign Yabusele to his rookie scale contract.

Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: A Future of Stevens on July 08, 2017, 01:04:02 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/1s6gop.jpg)

This is the greatest thing I have ever seen
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Eja117 on July 08, 2017, 01:04:44 PM
So does that mean once we do that we are spent up to the cap? And then we can do the MLE and LLE? I also don't understand the "cheaper to keep Jackson" comment.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: BitterJim on July 08, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
It appears Boston can now sign Hayward to the full 30% max, as well as sign Yabusele, and keep Rozier.

The Celtics have the following salaries currently on the books:

Al Horford --   27,734,405
Jae Crowder --   6,796,117
Isaiah Thomas --   6,261,395
Marcus Morris --   5,000,000
Jaylen Brown --   4,956,480
Marcus Smart --   4,538,020
Terry Rozier --   1,988,520
Ante Zizic --   1,645,200
Jordan Mickey --   1,471,382
Demetrius Jackson --   1,384,750
Jayson Tatum --   5,645,400
   
Total --   67,421,669

By waiving Mickey and adding in two empty roster charges ($815,615 ea.), the Celtics would be at $67,581,517 in salary, leaving them with $31,511,483 in cap space.  A max contract for Hayward is $29,727,900 meaning after he is signed Boston would still have $2,599,198 in cap space remaining, enough to sign Yabusele to his rookie scale contract.

Mostly right, but we currently have Yabusele's cap hold on our books, so the order is different on things. Honestly, it looks like Morris was the ideal salary to trade Bradley for, especially if we want to use him to deal for someone later
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on July 08, 2017, 01:25:44 PM
Morris' contract has been the obvious reason for this trade for us. It brings us not only a PF for the new season, but two. I guess Yabusele was not happy with the idea of stasing him for another year, so we have avoided some kind of trouble besides signing Hayward.

With the passing of time, and being the most devoted Bradley's fan, I'm starting to like the trade.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: BitterJim on July 08, 2017, 01:29:57 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: BitterJim on July 08, 2017, 01:40:37 PM
So does that mean once we do that we are spent up to the cap? And then we can do the MLE and LLE? I also don't understand the "cheaper to keep Jackson" comment.

Once we're up to the cap (or so close to it that signing someone would put us over), we'll only be allowed to sign people using exceptions. This would mean Bird Rights if we had any left this offseason (we don't),  contracts for 1st round picks (which is irrelevant to us right now - their cap holds are already factored into our cap calculations. It only really applies to teams that are already over the cap), mid-level/bi-annual/room exceptions (we only have the room exception because we used our cap space to sign someone, which is good for ~$4 million), and minimum salary exceptions (any team, no matter their cap situation, can sign as many minimum salary players as they want, provided they don't violate roster limits). We'll be able to sign one FA with the room exception (it can be split, but that makes no sense given how close it is to the vet minimum),  and then as many as we want to minimum contracts.

As for Jackson, it's just a peculiarity of his contract - his guaranteed money plus the empty roster spot hold ($650k+$815k=$1.465 million) is higher than his salary this year ($1.385 million), meaning that cutting him would actually reduce the cap space we had available. Trading him for no returning salary, on the other hand, would not have such an effect.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: JBcat on July 08, 2017, 02:01:01 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)

Very breakdown. TP.

If we wanted to could we keep Mickey and waive Jackson?  For what's worth I'd rather do that.  We already have 3 guys capable of playing the point in Thomas, Smart, and Rozier. 

From the little I saw of the D league last year I thought Mickey actually outplayed Yabu. I think Yabu might have been hurt though.  If anything Mickey gives us more big man depth we desperately need rather than 4th string PG costing us very little.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: BitterJim on July 08, 2017, 02:18:44 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)

Very breakdown. TP.

If we wanted to could we keep Mickey and waive Jackson?  For what's worth I'd rather do that.  We already have 3 guys capable of playing the point in Thomas, Smart, and Rozier. 

From the little I saw of the D league last year I thought Mickey actually outplayed Yabu. I think Yabu might have been hurt though.  If anything Mickey gives us more big man depth we desperately need rather than 4th string PG costing us very little.

We could keep Mickey over Jackson only if we could find some other team to take on Jackson without sending us back any salary. The two of them will make about the same amount, but Jackson's $650k guarantee would take up too much space
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: No Nickname on July 08, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
So does that mean once we do that we are spent up to the cap? And then we can do the MLE and LLE? I also don't understand the "cheaper to keep Jackson" comment.

Once we're up to the cap (or so close to it that signing someone would put us over), we'll only be allowed to sign people using exceptions. This would mean Bird Rights if we had any left this offseason (we don't),  contracts for 1st round picks (which is irrelevant to us right now - their cap holds are already factored into our cap calculations. It only really applies to teams that are already over the cap), mid-level/bi-annual/room exceptions (we only have the room exception because we used our cap space to sign someone, which is good for ~$4 million), and minimum salary exceptions (any team, no matter their cap situation, can sign as many minimum salary players as they want, provided they don't violate roster limits). We'll be able to sign one FA with the room exception (it can be split, but that makes no sense given how close it is to the vet minimum),  and then as many as we want to minimum contracts.

As for Jackson, it's just a peculiarity of his contract - his guaranteed money plus the empty roster spot hold ($650k+$815k=$1.465 million) is higher than his salary this year ($1.385 million), meaning that cutting him would actually reduce the cap space we had available. Trading him for no returning salary, on the other hand, would not have such an effect.

Thanks so much for explaining!  I find this all fascinating.

Any thoughts on which FAs left that might be in that $4M salary range?  Bogut?  Probably not enough for Pau Gasol.  I wish Diaw were a FA.  He actually plays the best man-to-man defense on Lebron that I've seen.  I mean, he gives him the jumper every time, but his lateral quickness is so good that Lebron rarely seems to get around him.  And when Lebron stops and pump fakes or tries a post move, Diaw is big enough and tall enough to just "wall up" on Lebron, which he hates.  He wants guys who leave their feet so he can draw a foul or do an up and under.  Diaw even affects Lebron's turnaround fadeaways with his length.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: JBcat on July 08, 2017, 02:23:37 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)

Very breakdown. TP.

If we wanted to could we keep Mickey and waive Jackson?  For what's worth I'd rather do that.  We already have 3 guys capable of playing the point in Thomas, Smart, and Rozier. 

From the little I saw of the D league last year I thought Mickey actually outplayed Yabu. I think Yabu might have been hurt though.  If anything Mickey gives us more big man depth we desperately need rather than 4th string PG costing us very little.

We could keep Mickey over Jackson only if we could find some other team to take on Jackson without sending us back any salary. The two of them will make about the same amount, but Jackson's $650k guarantee would take up too much space

Thanks, TP again. 

Jackson has sat out the last 2 summer league games. I wonder if something is up.  We could trade him, and get back a protected 2nd round pick.

I read somewhere the Celtics gave permission to Mickey to sit out summer league to focus on his offseason program.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Dino Pitino on July 08, 2017, 02:30:29 PM
So...yes or no, Yabusele is on the roster now?
If so, we should be more excited than we are.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YznWrvhs9Zw/R9yttW3EcmI/AAAAAAAAAHU/43XIxkdtRE8/S1600-R/237702h51am14e6k.gif)
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: BitterJim on July 08, 2017, 02:46:43 PM
So...yes or no, Yabusele is on the roster now?
If so, we should be more excited than we are.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YznWrvhs9Zw/R9yttW3EcmI/AAAAAAAAAHU/43XIxkdtRE8/S1600-R/237702h51am14e6k.gif)

He's not on the roster until we sign him, and we haven't done that yet. I saw something on /r/bostonceltics that said he was in Boston, though, so it's very possible that we sign him when we sign Hayward.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: footey on July 08, 2017, 02:47:35 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)

Very breakdown. TP.

If we wanted to could we keep Mickey and waive Jackson?  For what's worth I'd rather do that.  We already have 3 guys capable of playing the point in Thomas, Smart, and Rozier. 

From the little I saw of the D league last year I thought Mickey actually outplayed Yabu. I think Yabu might have been hurt though.  If anything Mickey gives us more big man depth we desperately need rather than 4th string PG costing us very little.

Yabu was hurt. In summer league year before Yabu far outplayed Mickey. He is a much better prospect than Mickey.
Title: Re: What are the cap implications of the Bradley trade?
Post by: Moranis on July 08, 2017, 03:04:13 PM
Not really.  Celtics save about $3M  ($8m for AB vs. $5m Morris, roughly) which they need to make up for the $2M reduction in league cap in order to sign Hayward.

It's actually closer to $4 million saved on the trade (Bradley's salary is $8,808,989 this year). Take off the $300k extra for Hayward and you're at ~$3.5 million. Keeping Rozier means taking off $2 million and adding in $815k (since he takes the place of an empty roster hold), and put you at $2.3 million. Doing the same with Yabusele's $2.25 million puts you at $880k. Jackson will make $1.5 million next season, which is just $700k above the minimum, so we can keep him, too.

All we have to do is waive Mickey (assuming all my quick math here is right - I'll check it against my spreadsheet later)

Very breakdown. TP.

If we wanted to could we keep Mickey and waive Jackson?  For what's worth I'd rather do that.  We already have 3 guys capable of playing the point in Thomas, Smart, and Rozier. 

From the little I saw of the D league last year I thought Mickey actually outplayed Yabu. I think Yabu might have been hurt though.  If anything Mickey gives us more big man depth we desperately need rather than 4th string PG costing us very little.

Yabu was hurt. In summer league year before Yabu far outplayed Mickey. He is a much better prospect than Mickey.
I agree but to his real point, we don't need a 4th PG like Jackson and keeping an extra big around makes more sense.