Big Man Options

[nickagneta]

I add a [ick to Jaylen for him.  Probably a lottery protected first.

Add a pick to Jaylen for who?

Sabonis?

Neither Brown nor Sabonis are eligible to be traded until their teams' seasons end. Neither is being traded this year.

They theoretically could be traded but the mechanics of it make it almost impossible. Because they signed extensions they only count for 3-4m in outgoing salary but their incoming salary is significantly higher.  It  makes the cap math almost impossible.

No....once you sign an extension you are unable to be traded for 6 months. That ends after the trade deadline for this season so they can't be traded until after the team's season ends.

Pretty sure the 6 month thing applies to FA/RFA signings this what I read from Karalis.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/10/jaylen-brown-contract-extension-5-ways-this-impacts-the-boston-celtics.html

"This contract now falls under what’s called the “poison pill provision.”

So what that means is if Brown was to be traded between now and when the extension kicks in, his value for the receiving team is the average of this, the final year of his rookie deal, and the value of his extension. That’s number is about $24.3 million.

However, the Celtics would use his current year’s salary, about $6.5 million.

That makes matching salaries extraordinarily difficult. It’s not impossible, but, basically, forget it."

He is wrong. From Larry Coon's site on the NBA CBA:

101. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade clauses -- currently only Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki have them.

If a player with a negotiated no-trade clause consents to a trade and is traded, his no-trade clause remains in effect with his new team.

There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player's consent:

When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent3. The player's consent is also required for any subsequent trades that season.
For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent. The player must consent to a trade to any team, although he cannot be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.


In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the trade aggregates the player's salary with the salaries of other players. However, the team is free to trade the player immediately, either by himself or without aggregating his salary with other salaries. This restriction applies only to players who were acquired using an exception (and not cap room). (Also see question number 90.)

When the trade deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended4, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

For three months or until December 15 of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent or matching an offer sheet to a restricted free agent. This obviously does not apply to the trade completing a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92).

For three months or until December 15 of that season (whichever is later) after converting a Two-Way contract to a standard contract (see question number 83), with the three months beginning on the date the contract is converted.

For three months or until January 15 of that season (whichever is later) after re-signing a free agent with Larry Bird or Early Bird rights, if the team is over the cap, the player's new salary is above the minimum, and he receives a raise greater than 20%.

For 30 days after signing as a draft pick. This applies even for later-signed first round picks, who are signed using cap room at least three seasons after they are drafted (see question number 49).

For 30 days after signing a Two-Way contract (see question number 82).

For one year after signing a player to a Designated Veteran contract or extension (see question number 24).

For six months after signing a player to an extension that is over the limit (in terms of years, salary or raises) for an extend-and-trade transaction5 (see question number 95).

After claiming a player on waivers, for 30 days if the player was claimed during the season. If the player was claimed during the offseason, he cannot be traded until the 30th day of the following season.

A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first6. However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

A team cannot acquire players during a season when they do not have room on their 15-man roster, even if they intend to waive an incoming player immediately. For example, a team with 14 players cannot trade one player for three, while simultaneously waiving an incoming player to remain at 15 players7.
1   A no-trade clause cannot be negotiated into an extension, unless player's existing contract or extension already contained a no-trade clause.
2   When the player has been with his team a partial season (for example, when traded mid-season), they round his team tenure up. For example, when Carmelo Anthony re-signed with the Knicks in 2014, he received a no-trade clause despite being with the Knicks only 3.5 seasons. The logic is the same as the years of service rule, where a player is credited for a full year of service even if he was on a team's roster for just a single day.
3   When there is an option year involved, they may be able to get around this restriction by invoking the option prior to the trade.
4   Playoff teams can trade players during the playoffs who are not on their playoff roster.
5   This does not apply to rookie scale contracts, which can be extended without such limitations immediately after they are traded.
6   Interestingly, a player can be traded to a third team, waived by the third team, and be eligible to re-sign with his original team before the waiting period expires. While this has not happened in practice, the league clarified its interpretation of this rule in 2017, in regard to a possible instance with Andrew Bogut.
7   It is possible to work around this restriction by waiving a current player, executing the trade, waiving one of the incoming players, and then re-signing the original player.

Notice the bolded. That is what Jaylen and Sabonis both did this season. So you can't trade them for 6 months which falls after the trade deadline, so you can not trade them until after each team's season is ended.

[jambr380]

I add a [ick to Jaylen for him.  Probably a lottery protected first.

Add a pick to Jaylen for who?

Sabonis?

Neither Brown nor Sabonis are eligible to be traded until their teams' seasons end. Neither is being traded this year.

They theoretically could be traded but the mechanics of it make it almost impossible. Because they signed extensions they only count for 3-4m in outgoing salary but their incoming salary is significantly higher.  It  makes the cap math almost impossible.

No....once you sign an extension you are unable to be traded for 6 months. That ends after the trade deadline for this season so they can't be traded until after the team's season ends.

Pretty sure the 6 month thing applies to FA/RFA signings this what I read from Karalis.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/10/jaylen-brown-contract-extension-5-ways-this-impacts-the-boston-celtics.html

"This contract now falls under what’s called the “poison pill provision.”

So what that means is if Brown was to be traded between now and when the extension kicks in, his value for the receiving team is the average of this, the final year of his rookie deal, and the value of his extension. That’s number is about $24.3 million.

However, the would use his current year’s salary, about $6.5 million.

That makes matching salaries extraordinarily difficult. It’s not impossible, but, basically, forget it."

Somewhat true. The Mavs have a exemption of 11.5 million. The Cs could deal Brown to another team. The other team could trade a rotation guy to the Mavs into their excemption. And the other team could send back something in the 6-10 million range to the Cs.

I wouldn't do this deal, but this is an example.
The Cs receive Bam
The Heat receive Brown, trade excemption
The Mavs receive a 2nd, Leonard

TP for the idea. And you don't need to be so 'shy' in saying you wouldn't do this deal. I am a huge Jaylen fan and I would very much consider it. I made sure to pick up Bam in all of my fantasy leagues this season and he is proving to have been very worth it. At 22 y/o, he is averaging 15/10/5 with 2 blocks and 1 steal per game. I think it is the Heat who would say no to this deal, not the Cs. But maybe you could simplify things and just do a Tatum for Bam swap. He is probably the best player in the NBA that people haven't heard of, but that is going to change very soon.

[action781]

Zeller and Favors don't move the needle that much for me.

A few of those guys I don't think the teams would have any interest in moving (Turner, Capela, Drummond).

Steven Adams, Marc Gasol (for cheap), and one of Nurkic/Whiteside are possibilities that would be intriguing.

I think Draymond is the guy who interests me the most, but I think they'll want to hold on to him for a run next season.

[Birdman]

Portland wont keep both Whiteside and Nurkic so maybe we get one 😁

[PAOBoston]

Zeller and Favors don't move the needle that much for me.

A few of those guys I don't think the teams would have any interest in moving (Turner, Capela, Drummond).

Steven Adams, Marc Gasol (for cheap), and one of Nurkic/Whiteside are possibilities that would be intriguing.

I think Draymond is the guy who interests me the most, but I think they'll want to hold on to him for a run next season.

None of the GS are for sale. Speaking of their demise is very premature imo. They are going to tank this year, get a top pick, and come back healthy and guns loaded next year.

[gpap]

Zeller and Favors don't move the needle that much for me.

A few of those guys I don't think the teams would have any interest in moving (Turner, Capela, Drummond).

Steven Adams, Marc Gasol (for cheap), and one of Nurkic/Whiteside are possibilities that would be intriguing.

I think Draymond is the guy who interests me the most, but I think they'll want to hold on to him for a run next season.

I'm not even sure Steven Adams would be available. OKC may want to hang onto him long-term. I also don't see Myles Turner being moved either. Drummond is doubtful. If Detroit falls out of the race, I could see them listening but I'm not sure Ainge makes an offer knowing Drummond would be a possible rental.

I think Capela is an interesting one and I was reading in an article how Mannix was saying he's a guy the Celts have an eye on. Daryl Morey is one of the more pro-active GMs so maybe him and Ainge line up on a deal. But, still very early to say.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-could-clint-capela-be-celtics-target-trade-deadline

Windhorst also noted veteran big man Steven Adams could be a Celtics target if the Oklahoma City Thunder make him available. But during a recent appearance on "The Bill Simmons Podcast," NBC Sports Boston contributor Chris Mannix suggested Capela is the apple of Boston's eye.

"I think the guy they're sitting on, really, is Clint Capela," Mannix said. "I think they'd love to take a Daniel Theis contract and maybe a couple other small things and a draft pick and go get a guy like that."

[Fierce1]

Portland wont keep both Whiteside and Nurkic so maybe we get one 😁

Nurkic is the starter for the Blazers.

Whiteside is outside of the Celts' price range.

[liam]

Free agent centers? Still? Vets...Noah, Kosta Koufos, Gortat, slim pickings....

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Free agent centers? Still? Vets...Noah, Kosta Koufos, Gortat, slim pickings....

Yes it is. I'd 100% rather run with Williams, Williams, or Poirier at the 5 than those guys.

[liam]

Free agent centers? Still? Vets...Noah, Kosta Koufos, Gortat, slim pickings....

Yes it is. I'd 100% rather run with Williams, Williams, or Poirier at the 5 than those guys.

Me too. I think Poirier will come along but if we need to pick up a big 7 foot defensive big by the end of the year and these guys can still play, they could be options. None of them is a starter but if we need situational help one of them might do.

[SHAQATTACK]

Checking out the votes ...


I d bet on the Zero vote guys having the best chance being Celtics.....who ever is.cheap and nobody wants em.


I like Sum Yung Guy.  ..... 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

What if our defensive big man in the post is ... Marcus Smart?

In an admittedly small sample size so far this season. Smart ranks 5th as a postup defender.

I'm not saying that is necessarily the long-term solution. Still, Smart's abilities on Paul Milsap, Kevin Love, Giannis, and others in the post throughout the years might indicate he could do it in key moments or stretches in the playoffs.

Playing Joel Embiid might be a problem, but that's a problem for anyone.

[Fierce1]

What if our defensive big man in the post is ... Marcus Smart?

In an admittedly small sample size so far this season. Smart ranks 5th as a postup defender.

I'm not saying that is necessarily the long-term solution. Still, Smart's abilities on Paul Milsap, Kevin Love, Giannis, and others in the post throughout the years might indicate he could do it in key moments or stretches in the playoffs.

Playing Joel Embiid might be a problem, but that's a problem for anyone.

No doubt Smart can defend bigs, especially in the regular season.

But it's different in the playoffs.

What if the Celts face the Sixers in the playoffs?

Can Smart do it in a 7-game series?

[Fierce1]

I also found an article that says players like Brown and Sabonis, who extended their rookie scale contracts, can be traded.

It's rare, but technically possible.

Here:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/10/hoops-rumors-glossary-poison-pill-provision.html

Larry Coon also explained PPPs, like what Brown and Sabonis have can be traded.

Here:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

91. What is the Poison Pill Provision?
"Poison Pill" isn't a defined term in the CBA, but there are a couple situations that are commonly referred to as a poison pill -- meaning a contract clause that creates a potential difficulty because the cap accounting can vary from the norm.

The first is when a team extends a first round draft pick's rookie scale contract (see question number 58) and then trades the player between the date the extension is signed and the date it takes effect. When this happens, the player's trade value for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the rookie scale contract and each year of the extension. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their total outgoing salary, and uses the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

[keevsnick]

I also found an article that players like Brown and Sabonis, who extended their rookie scale contracts, can be traded.

It's rare, but technically possible.

Here:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/10/hoops-rumors-glossary-poison-pill-provision.html

Larry Coon also explained PPPs like what Brown and Sabonis have can be traded.

Here:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

91. What is the Poison Pill Provision?
"Poison Pill" isn't a defined term in the CBA, but there are a couple situations that are commonly referred to as a poison pill -- meaning a contract clause that creates a potential difficulty because the cap accounting can vary from the norm.

The first is when a team extends a first round draft pick's rookie scale contract (see question number 58) and then trades the player between the date the extension is signed and the date it takes effect. When this happens, the player's trade value for the receiving team is the average of the salaries in the last year of the rookie scale contract and each year of the extension. The sending team uses the player's actual salary when calculating their total outgoing salary, and uses the current-year maximum salary in place of the (unknown) maximum salary for a future season, if necessary.

Yes its technically possible, its just that fundamentally there's no actual way to do it right now. The receiving team would need either a trade exception or cap pace big enough to simply absorb the incoming players "average" salary, and no cap space or TE big enough exists in the league right now.